quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
So, whatever your views on Islam, please be seriously sceptical about those who posit a quote or two and claim it represents the essence of the religion. They are almost certainly going to be incorrect in their claims. If religious scholars whose life work has been the study and interpretation of Quranic texts cannot agree on the translations and interpretations of particular sections of the text what chance is there that someone with no training in the discipline and a strong ideological bias against Islam is going to get it right?

quote:

In fairness, did you not say " It makes no sense to talk about 'the ideology' without referring to the people who (you) claim to hold that ideology, too. "?

You said he was holding someone to an ideology, and he replied he was holding it to no one. Made sense to me... at least grammatically.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboyThese spasms of terrorism cry out for a conversation among Muslims about faith and tolerance. Islamic reformers could point out that the Koran prescribes no punishment at all for blasphemers besides telling others to keep their distance from them. The holy book that decrees death for blasphemy is the Bible (Leviticus 24:16).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc?

Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia.

Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboyThese spasms of terrorism cry out for a conversation among Muslims about faith and tolerance. Islamic reformers could point out that the Koran prescribes no punishment at all for blasphemers besides telling others to keep their distance from them. The holy book that decrees death for blasphemy is the Bible (Leviticus 24:16).

I agree with the first part of this quote above, while I disagree with the second part. Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw)

There isnt nearly enough reform occurring, and there isnt near enough outrage among Muslims against against Islamists whose ideal is to shed as much blood as possible in the name of Allah

There are other ways the ideology needs to step into this century as well

Womens rights, for example. Cruel and unusual punishment for lawbreakers... Human rights generally. I see a little bit of belated lip service here and there, but there is very little if any real corrective action taking place

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw)

I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc?

Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Except the ones persecuting the French Jews, of course.

I mean, there IS a reason that Jews are fleeing France and all of Europe.

Fleeing? France has the third largest Jewish population, after the US and Israel.

Additionally, according to a 2005 poll made by the Pew Research Center, there is no evidence of any specific antisemitism in France, which, according to this poll, appears to be one of the least antisemitic countries in Europe,[58] though France has the world's third largest Jewish population.[1] France is the country that has the most favourable views of Jews in Europe (82%), next to the Netherlands, and the third country with the least unfavourable views (16%) next to the UK and the Netherlands.

Between 2000 and 2009, 13,315 French Jews moved to Israel, or made aliyah, an increase compared to the previous decade (1990–1999 : 10,443) that was in the continuity of a similar increase since the 1970s.[64] A peak was reached during this period, in 2005 (2005: 2,951 Olim) but a significant proportion (between 20 and 30%) eventually came back to France.

But that's out of 600,000 in the French Jewish community.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

He loved the torture, Abu Ghraib, and the IRAQ invasion. He also has zero regret about Arming and training the Taliban, and galvanizing the Jihad movement in the 80s.

Yesterday's freedom fighter is today's Terrorist. Back in the day, Saddam was our ally. There are actually too many dots to connect.

Torture is a crime under the Geneva convention, but believe me, Sanity does not want to clean house there....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboyThese spasms of terrorism cry out for a conversation among Muslims about faith and tolerance. Islamic reformers could point out that the Koran prescribes no punishment at all for blasphemers besides telling others to keep their distance from them. The holy book that decrees death for blasphemy is the Bible (Leviticus 24:16).

I agree with the first part of this quote above, while I disagree with the second part. Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw)

There isnt nearly enough reform occurring, and there isnt near enough outrage among Muslims against against Islamists whose ideal is to shed as much blood as possible in the name of Allah

There are other ways the ideology needs to step into this century as well

Womens rights, for example. Cruel and unusual punishment for lawbreakers... Human rights generally. I see a little bit of belated lip service here and there, but there is very little if any real corrective action taking place

So maybe something like the. . I don't know. . . the enlightenment?


That guy in Egypt seems to be thinking the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Except the ones persecuting the French Jews, of course.

I mean, there IS a reason that Jews are fleeing France and all of Europe.

Fleeing? France has the third largest Jewish population, after the US and Israel.

Additionally, according to a 2005 poll made by the Pew Research Center, there is no evidence of any specific antisemitism in France, which, according to this poll, appears to be one of the least antisemitic countries in Europe,[58] though France has the world's third largest Jewish population.[1] France is the country that has the most favourable views of Jews in Europe (82%), next to the Netherlands, and the third country with the least unfavourable views (16%) next to the UK and the Netherlands.

Between 2000 and 2009, 13,315 French Jews moved to Israel, or made aliyah, an increase compared to the previous decade (1990–1999 : 10,443) that was in the continuity of a similar increase since the 1970s.[64] A peak was reached during this period, in 2005 (2005: 2,951 Olim) but a significant proportion (between 20 and 30%) eventually came back to France.

But that's out of 600,000 in the French Jewish community.

Ahh that is so cute.

In 2013 about 3,500 Jews left France.

In 2014 about 7,000 Jews left France.

They are estimating another 10k or this year will leave.

Cute that you stopped the years in review when the exodus started.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc?

Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too.

Check your sources, perhaps put down the New York Times

Such things are crimes here in the West, and people are held accountable and such things are openly debated while the things I pointed out above are the opposite of crimes according to Islamic law

They are called for by Islamic law

And every day I see leftists trying to hold all conservatives and Christians (ahem) accountable for the actions of a few, very few, as well...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia.

Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc

quote:

In May last year, authorities sentenced Badawi, 31, to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes after he used his liberal blog to criticise Saudi Arabia's powerful clerics. The Jiddah Criminal Court also ordered he pay a fine of 1 million Saudi riyals (£175,700)...

...Amnesty International said authorities delayed administering 50 lashings to Raif Badawi, set to take place today after midday prayers, because his wounds from last week's flogging had not yet healed properly and he would not be able to withstand another round.

Said Boumedouha, Amnesty International’s Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa Programme said the postponement exposes the "utter brutality" of the punishment, and its "outrageous inhumanity."

"The notion that Raif Badawi must be allowed to heal so that he can suffer this cruel punishment again and again is macabre and outrageous. Flogging should not be carried out under any circumstances," said

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia.

Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc

Enter said simplistic populace.

Similarly, Christianity (or religions X,Y,Z,etc) isn't the problem, even radical Christianity isn't (people get to hold views--probably a LOT of American would oppose a website like this one that openly accepts sexual slavery) -- it's militant radical Christianity, complicated by politics, that's problematic.

Except to the simplistic faithful parrots.