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RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 4:38:52 PM

lovmuffin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

When there's a design flaw. Like there are in firearms sometimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction

When there's a smoke alarm failure, it's pulled off the market.

Point is, much as you want to dance around it, the only "unreliable" feature anyone so far has named (and that was me!) is that is uses a battery.

Yer gettin there but the point is, there's more smart components on a smart gun than just the batteries. Now that ya know a little about firearm malfunctions, why would ya think we want to add on more shit ? Keep digging for more drawbacks on the smart gun though. They're easy enough to find.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 1/28/2015 4:42:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 181

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 5:02:35 PM

oldncreepy

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Here's a dot gov article on current smart gun technology, including reliability. It's a lengthy read, but very informative.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/242500.pdf

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 182

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 5:14:34 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

When there's a design flaw. Like there are in firearms sometimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction

When there's a smoke alarm failure, it's pulled off the market.

Point is, much as you want to dance around it, the only "unreliable" feature anyone so far has named (and that was me!) is that is uses a battery.

Yer gettin there but the point is, there's more smart components on a smart gun than just the batteries. Now that ya know a little about firearm malfunctions, why would ya think we want to add on more shit ? Keep digging for more drawbacks on the smart gun though. They're easy enough to find.

Incorporating computer technology into a new area reminds me of a car I bought in the 80's. It was the first year they had computers controlling the carburetor it would drop to a max of 5 mph at random and seemingly always bad times (like on the interstate, with a semi behind me). I want a lot of proof before I would think about having one.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

Post #: 183

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 6:46:22 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

When there's a design flaw. Like there are in firearms sometimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction

When there's a smoke alarm failure, it's pulled off the market.

Point is, much as you want to dance around it, the only "unreliable" feature anyone so far has named (and that was me!) is that is uses a battery.

Yer gettin there but the point is, there's more smart components on a smart gun than just the batteries. Now that ya know a little about firearm malfunctions, why would ya think we want to add on more shit ? Keep digging for more drawbacks on the smart gun though. They're easy enough to find.

Then I'd think someone could actually say what they are.

Nope. They'd have to exist first. It's just paranoia.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

Post #: 184

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 6:52:20 PM

mnottertail

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So, reading the documentation, and having had some commerce with batteries in my life, and guns.....

Smart technology is not fit for handguns because it could fail in some miniscule moment when you needed it (which is also a miniscule moment)...

Lets go to the equation

Youarealive iff:

Ya= NOT(1/fail * incident).

You are alive at .00092 (that acceptable for these smart fails) * .000001 (which I believe is large because you dont have to shoot 1:100000 of the people you run across, maybe more like 1:500000 or even less.

That means............

I will leave the reality as an exercise to the reader.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 6:53:17 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 185

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:01:12 PM

Kirata

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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, reading the documentation, and having had some commerce with batteries in my life, and guns.....

Smart technology is not fit for handguns because it could fail in some miniscule moment when you needed it (which is also a miniscule moment)...

Lets go to the equation

Youarealive iff:

Ya= NOT(1/fail * incident).

You are alive at .00092 (that acceptable for these smart fails) * .000001 (which I believe is large because you dont have to shoot 1:100000 of the people you run across, maybe more like 1:500000 or even less.

That means............

I will leave the reality as an exercise to the reader.

I'm not going to give it away, honest. Just a hint...

In that "miniscule moment" when you need to shoot, you need to shoot 100% of the people who need shooting 100% of the time.

Shit, was that too much?

K.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 186

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:30:43 PM

mnottertail

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yes, and the fail rate is less than the fail of ammo, or the fail of gun components (multiplied) so don't give anything away, you haven't anything to give.(hint: I dont give a glimmer of a fuck about fucking smart guns) I was just commenting on the fail rate being of less importance than not a one of you fuckers on this thread could shoot and hit a guy in that situation, and none of you have ever actually been in that situation)

And regarding Kansas making it easier to carry concealed I don't give the glimmer of a fuck about that either. When I was in kindergarten, we used to bring guns to show and tell.

So your rather pathetic bit of smartass there is an epic fail K, since most idiots would forget to take the safe off a old school mechanical gun, and cretins that carry revolvers for concealed are already a waste of oxygen and should be shot outright.

So, don't count angels on the head of a pin for me, I have no need to know the number, it is excruciatingly small, and I am ok with that level of care.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 187

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:35:13 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, reading the documentation, and having had some commerce with batteries in my life, and guns.....

Smart technology is not fit for handguns because it could fail in some miniscule moment when you needed it (which is also a miniscule moment)...

Lets go to the equation

Youarealive iff:

Ya= NOT(1/fail * incident).

You are alive at .00092 (that acceptable for these smart fails) * .000001 (which I believe is large because you dont have to shoot 1:100000 of the people you run across, maybe more like 1:500000 or even less.

That means............

I will leave the reality as an exercise to the reader.

I'm not going to give it away, honest. Just a hint...

In that "miniscule moment" when you need to shoot, you need to shoot 100% of the people who need shooting 100% of the time.

Shit, was that too much?

K.

And any failure rate of the technology has to be added to the failure rate of things like ammunition.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 188

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:36:12 PM

Musicmystery

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...failure rates of firearms generally, not smart guns specifically.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 189

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:39:06 PM

mnottertail

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and I am thinking it would be multiplied, not added. You have to account statistically for single failure and multiple failure cases, or square the fails and add. Oh, wait, one is odds and one is chance.

A distinction without a difference in this milieu, being newtonian rather than einsteinian in its reality.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 7:41:17 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 190

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:46:47 PM

Musicmystery

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So there's just a chance of the odd statistic to add to the account.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 191

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 7:52:45 PM

mnottertail

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Well human error is going to be greater in both chance and odds. You didnt have one in the chamber, you didnt take the safe off, you didnt cock the fucking thing, you bought those cheap ass bullets all over the country now (imports) that have a near total failure rate (if I felt like typing, I would tell you a story of a .357 taurus that couldnt shoot straight and locked up after 2 rounds and that cheap ass ammo). Guy learned his lesson when he walked out of here.

But human error, ad nauseam.

Or say you were shopping in walmart, and you didnt have the safe on, and the gun was cocked, (AND IT WAS NOT ZIPPED UP IN THE CARRYING POUCH) and you had a two year old. Whats the chances of that, HAH? ('bout 100% apparently).

the odds to date appear to be about 1 in 3 billion or however many people are on the planet these days.

But as Mercutio said, 'tis enough, 'tis enough.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 7:56:57 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 192

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:01:57 PM

Musicmystery

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Ask for him tomorrow and you shall find him a grave man.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 193

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:07:49 PM

lovmuffin

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quote:

BamaD
And any failure rate of the technology has to be added to the failure rate of things like ammunition.

Exactly, not to mention any added bulk, weight and having to wear rings, watches or nipple piercings. But I guess that makes us paranoid.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 194

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:11:42 PM

mnottertail

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Yeah, rings and watches make a great number of people paranoid I think, so that's pretty normal.

We can tell that you did not read the article that threw out those stupid facts.

The bulk is internal to the gun and is less than or equal to the weight of a round.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 8:12:17 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to lovmuffin)

Post #: 195

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:17:24 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

BamaD
And any failure rate of the technology has to be added to the failure rate of things like ammunition.

Exactly, not to mention any added bulk, weight and having to wear rings, watches or nipple piercings. But I guess that makes us paranoid.

On the link someone else posted above the low failure rate was a claim made by the German manufacturer, the tests didn't seem to verify this. For example it doesn't take into account that high humidity, like we have in Alabama can degrade the effectiveness, particularly salt air, like on the coast.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

Post #: 196

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:19:55 PM

Musicmystery

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And of course, the high humidity doesn't effect the mechanism of the old guns, because they're magic.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/28/2015 8:31:57 PM >

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Post #: 197

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:21:19 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

BamaD
And any failure rate of the technology has to be added to the failure rate of things like ammunition.

Exactly, not to mention any added bulk, weight and having to wear rings, watches or nipple piercings. But I guess that makes us paranoid.

It supposedly only adds the weight of one more round, but you would think that would very from one caliber to another.
And that is at odds with how bulky that .22 they were going to sell in CA was.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/28/2015 8:23:07 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

Post #: 198

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:22:44 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

yes, and the fail rate is less than the fail of ammo...

The fail rates of ammunition tend to follow the rule that you get what you pay for. You neglect to mention the fail rates of batteries and sensors, or the patent idiocy of wearing a "magic watch" that advertises you're carrying.

K.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 199

RE: Kanasas to make it easier to have concealable weapons - 1/28/2015 8:25:30 PM

mnottertail

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I think that is the idea. The components in a s & w .500 would be larger and heavier than those of a Japanese 2mm pinfire. about the weight of one of its (average bullets) I dont think they weighed to the grain level, know what I mean Vern?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 8:26:45 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 200

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