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The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 5:42:00 PM   
Kirata


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‘Blasphemous’ artwork removed from Paris exhibition



An artwork depicting high-heeled shoes on Islamic prayer mats has been removed from an exhibition after a Muslim group warned of possible violence in the wake of the Paris attacks. The French-Algerian artist, Zoulikha Bouabdellah, withdrew the work from an exhibition in a northern Paris suburb with a large Muslim population after an Islamic group told local authorities it could provoke “uncontrollable, irresponsible incidents”.

Dhimmitude in 3, 2, 1....

K.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 7:02:21 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



Dhimmitude in 3, 2, 1....

K.





Cue the defenders in 3, 2, 1. . . .

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 7:13:41 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I dont think the French as a nation, or as a local government or as a local butthurt group had any lesson to glean here.

The artist personally decided to remove it. I will defend her right to do what she wants with her art. Didn't take very long to come to the defense of that. She wanted to start a dialogue, not a fight, and since it was plain that it wouldn't be interpreted in the way she intended..................

I am betting she is a member of collarspace and posts on this forum. She is rather insightful.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 7:17:42 PM >

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 7:17:46 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Yeah..."insightful",that describes a significant portion of the folks who hang around here

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 7:26:33 PM   
PeonForHer


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So, presumably, certain posters here *would* be completely comfortable about putting such a piece of artwork on display in that particular area of France?

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 7:26:47 PM   
dcnovice


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That could never happen here.

The [Hide/Seek] exhibition [at the National Portrait Gallery], which closes Sunday, was the first major-museum show depicting how artists handle questions of sexual and gender identity. The artists ranged from Thomas Eakins, George Bellows and Georgia O'Keeffe to Jasper Johns, Robert Rauschenberg and Andy Warhol.

In late November, hearing complaints from Republican leadership on Capitol Hill and conservative critics, the Smithsonian removed a video that critics labeled sacrilegious. The work in question was a short portion of "A Fire in My Belly" by artist David Wojnarowicz that contained a scene of a crucifix crawling with ants. That decision, made by Smithsonian Secretary G. Wayne Clough, set off demonstrations, panel discussions and Internet debates about the censorship at the Smithsonian, funding to Smithsonian shows and the role of gay artists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/10/AR2011021006449.html

I'm too tired to dig up links on Mapplethorpe and the Corcoran.

N.B.: Offering U.S. examples does not mean I approve of what happened in France.
I'm sickened and sad. But not quite ready to throw stones.



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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 7:33:26 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

So, presumably, certain posters here *would* be completely comfortable about putting such a piece of artwork on display in that particular area of France?



On a personal note, I would do it if it were mine, but then I dont give a fuck. obviously, ommv.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 8:03:23 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

That could never happen here.

The [Hide/Seek] exhibition [at the National Portrait Gallery], which closes Sunday, was the first major-museum show depicting how artists handle questions of sexual and gender identity. The artists ranged from Thomas Eakins, George Bellows and Georgia O'Keeffe to Jasper Johns, Robert Rauschenberg and Andy Warhol.

In late November, hearing complaints from Republican leadership on Capitol Hill and conservative critics, the Smithsonian removed a video that critics labeled sacrilegious. The work in question was a short portion of "A Fire in My Belly" by artist David Wojnarowicz that contained a scene of a crucifix crawling with ants. That decision, made by Smithsonian Secretary G. Wayne Clough, set off demonstrations, panel discussions and Internet debates about the censorship at the Smithsonian, funding to Smithsonian shows and the role of gay artists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/10/AR2011021006449.html

I'm too tired to dig up links on Mapplethorpe and the Corcoran.

N.B.: Offering U.S. examples does not mean I approve of what happened in France.
I'm sickened and sad. But not quite ready to throw stones.



Damn those Christians, killing all those people in DC, and then threatening violence to get those artworks removed ...

Wait .... they didn't kill anyone? They didn't threaten anyone with deadly violence?

Ohh ... nevermind.

Firm

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 8:16:47 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Yeah, here we threaten deadly violence over trying to sell safer guns.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/4/gun-shop-nixes-plans-sell-smart-gun-after-death-th/
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2014/0503/Death-threats-stop-gun-store-from-selling-smart-gun.-Why
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/02/maryland-smart-gun_n_5255104.html

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 8:23:08 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Damn those Christians, killing all those people in DC, and then threatening violence to get those artworks removed ...

Wait .... they didn't kill anyone? They didn't threaten anyone with deadly violence?

Doesn't the lack of violent threats--of real risk--make the Smithsonian's cave-in all the more pathetic?

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 8:28:16 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		and the fact that the OP was a non-governmental, non-political, individual decision, rather a personal one make Firms non-sequitur even more abaft the beam?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/28/2015 8:29:20 PM >

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 10:00:40 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Doesn't the lack of violent threats--of real risk--make the Smithsonian's cave-in all the more pathetic?

Times change. Speech codes are trendy and fashionable these days.

The Graduate Center of the City University of New York issued a memo advising staff not to address any students as “Mr., Mrs. or Ms.” beginning this spring because some could find it disrespectful. The policy is intended to “ensure a respectful, welcoming and gender-inclusive learning environment..." ~Source

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/28/2015 10:02:37 PM >

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 10:09:18 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Damn those Christians, killing all those people in DC, and then threatening violence to get those artworks removed ...

Wait .... they didn't kill anyone? They didn't threaten anyone with deadly violence?

Ohh ... nevermind.

Firm



Oi, Firm! How are ya, ya predatory son of a gun?!

I would be willing to bet that someone of an "official" capacity had a little discussion with this young lady about re-thinking the timing of this particular exhibit. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Some would say that she "listened to reason". Some would say she "caved".

I'll go with: whatever I think about her decision, it was hers to make.

Now, I'd be interested in knowing how that little discussion might have evolved ...



Michael

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 10:39:44 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Doesn't the lack of violent threats--of real risk--make the Smithsonian's cave-in all the more pathetic?

Times change. Speech codes are trendy and fashionable these days.

The Graduate Center of the City University of New York issued a memo advising staff not to address any students as “Mr., Mrs. or Ms.” beginning this spring because some could find it disrespectful. The policy is intended to “ensure a respectful, welcoming and gender-inclusive learning environment..." ~Source

K.

Ah yes. Just like Al JaJazeera won't use the words "terrorist",
"militant", "Islamist" or "jihad" anymore. Well, they can use the word "militant" but only in certain situations, such as describing American terrorist....errrr...freedom fighter...Timothy McVeigh.
http://m.nationalreview.com/corner/397320/internal-emails-show-al-jazeera-english-banning-use-terms-terrorist-militant-islamist

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/28/2015 11:01:15 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Damn those Christians, killing all those people in DC, and then threatening violence to get those artworks removed ...

Wait .... they didn't kill anyone? They didn't threaten anyone with deadly violence?

Ohh ... nevermind.

Firm



Oi, Firm! How are ya, ya predatory son of a gun?!

I would be willing to bet that someone of an "official" capacity had a little discussion with this young lady about re-thinking the timing of this particular exhibit. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Some would say that she "listened to reason". Some would say she "caved".

I'll go with: whatever I think about her decision, it was hers to make.

Now, I'd be interested in knowing how that little discussion might have evolved ...



Michael


I think that someone imagined what she imagined and she imagined what some imagined imaginator imagined to have said. And there it was. fait accompli in imagination world.


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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/29/2015 1:53:52 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I think that someone imagined what she imagined and she imagined what some imagined imaginator imagined to have said. And there it was. fait accompli in imagination world.


I imagine you are right.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/29/2015 1:54:30 AM >

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/29/2015 2:53:26 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



Dhimmitude in 3, 2, 1....

K.





Cue the defenders in 3, 2, 1. . . .


Cue the Islamophobes more like.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/29/2015 3:32:45 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah, poor form.

It may be her shop to do as she pleases, but the motive is clearly a shambles.

I would say, however, that those who value security over liberty, and there are plenty round these parts; are not helping. In fact, they're part of the problem as they sleepwalk towards Authoritarianism.

Seems to me there are two kinds of people being a complete fucking nuisance: the former are the lunatics murdering and threatening to murder people; the latter are those who think Guantanamo is a good idea and call for the power to detain people without a trial and due process/delayed justice etc.

The latter clearly aren't murdering people, so the crimes aren't the same, but they are usurping thousands of years of progress such as the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights and the US Bill of Rights.

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/29/2015 3:47:31 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Yeah, poor form.

It may be her shop to do as she pleases, but the motive is clearly a shambles.

I would say, however, that those who value security over liberty, and there are plenty round these parts; are not helping. In fact, they're part of the problem as they sleepwalk towards Authoritarianism.

Seems to me there are two kinds of people being a complete fucking nuisance: the former are the lunatics murdering and threatening to murder people; the latter are those who think Guantanamo is a good idea and call for the power to detain people without a trial and due process/delayed justice etc.

The latter clearly aren't murdering people, so the crimes aren't the same, but they are usurping thousands of years of progress such as the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights and the US Bill of Rights.


Bill of rights? As if Islamists are citizens?

Islamists dont fit so neatly into Western criminal justice systems

Their criminal code, Islamic law, criminalizes the West. And if Islamists do not at least support the murder of infidels they are criminal by their law

So our courts, our law is contemptible to them

You call them lunatics but that is a mental error on your part, they are sane but of a different mindset than you

Focused like a laser on Jihad, and using terror as a tool to further their cause

Its not a traffic ticket or patty cake, its war

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RE: The French Learn Their Lesson - 1/29/2015 3:57:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, and we see that bit of buffoonery as reality here (we are in the west) where the USA has 12.5 million plus Islamic citizens?

Epic prima facie fail.

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