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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 2:50:31 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
There is nothing uncharitable about expecting needs to be met per se.

But, it is extremely distasteful to place such emphasis on the material things in life when considering the qualities of a relationship.


It's the same thing. Men who don't enjoy giving gifts, and do not derive joy from doing so, and woman expecting them to do it, is selfish.

Women who do not derive joy from giving blowjobs, and men expecting them to give them that, is being selfish too.

If the woman gets alot of joy from giving blow jobs and a man enjoys gifting a woman, then there will be no issues at all.

Blow job is not a basic need! It's a want, just like gifts.

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 3:49:11 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
There is nothing uncharitable about expecting needs to be met per se.

But, it is extremely distasteful to place such emphasis on the material things in life when considering the qualities of a relationship.


It's the same thing. Men who don't enjoy giving gifts, and do not derive joy from doing so, and woman expecting them to do it, is selfish.

Women who do not derive joy from giving blowjobs, and men expecting them to give them that, is being selfish too.

If the woman gets alot of joy from giving blow jobs and a man enjoys gifting a woman, then there will be no issues at all.

Blow job is not a basic need! It's a want, just like gifts.



I won't lose the will to live in the absence of a blow job.

It may suggest, though, that a woman with an aversion to a blow job is inhibited by nature, and that could be an issue for compatibility, as I'm an open, curious person.

It's a similar issue with expectations of receiving money and gifts - what could this suggest in terms of the depths of someone's character, and it follows the depth of any proposed relationship?

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 5:44:11 AM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Do you say the same about men who expect blowjobs in a relationship? Or anal? Or women who expect a dominant man to take charge? Or women who expect submission for that matter?

What is particularly uncharitable about expecting relationship needs or even preferences to be met? I don't see it.



There is nothing uncharitable about expecting needs to be met per se.

But, it is extremely distasteful to place such emphasis on the material things in life when considering the qualities of a relationship.



Ahhh. So, because blow jobs are not material, they are somehow intrinsically better?

Is anal sex more necessary to a relationship than a pair of silly socks? Or a lunch out? I think not. So, what makes it better in your eyes? Just that it doesn't cost money?

Well, it doesn't necessarily cost money. But then, neither do gifts. Flowers can be picked. Cards can be drawn and written. Bracelets can be fashioned of found objects.

Of course, with anal, there is a higher risk of STIs, and body harm and damage. I, personally, will buy lunch for a stranger before I will let them up my butt or put anything up theirs. And I love anal.

So, your logic makes no sense to me.

Money is simply an asset.

Money is what you get in exchange for a piece of your life's efforts.

Money = Your Time/Effort x Value (set by others)

So, why put so much additional value on it? If I spend 5 hours making a gift, it costs me more than buying a $100 lunch and spending 1 hour, based on my hourly worth. So, why is the money the only valuable commodity here?

This is what I don't understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

It's the same thing. Men who don't enjoy giving gifts, and do not derive joy from doing so, and woman expecting them to do it, is selfish.

Women who do not derive joy from giving blowjobs, and men expecting them to give them that, is being selfish too.

If the woman gets alot of joy from giving blow jobs and a man enjoys gifting a woman, then there will be no issues at all.

Blow job is not a basic need! It's a want, just like gifts.



I agree. Except for the selfish thing. You want a dominant. That is your need. Is it selfish to want what you want, and expect that those who choose to spend time with you to display that quality or not be relationship-compatible?

I think not.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It may suggest, though, that a woman with an aversion to a blow job is inhibited by nature, and that could be an issue for compatibility, as I'm an open, curious person.

It's a similar issue with expectations of receiving money and gifts - what could this suggest in terms of the depths of someone's character, and it follows the depth of any proposed relationship?



I ask you, what is the depth of my character, based on the post I made earlier about what the gifts I receive mean to me? Does it make me shallow in your eyes to enjoy having reminders of my friends around me?

Does it change your opinion, if I also give gifts to show my affection? And buy lunches, and share time?

Or does enjoying receiving gifts cancel out everything else? Because, money.

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 10:44:24 AM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzzJennifer

No, money does not equate gentleman. There are plenty of people who have money who aren't gentlemen. I was saying that if a woman is accustomed to begin with gentlemen, she doesn't want to be with someone who is not a gentleman.

If a woman is accustomed to being with men who spend money on her, then she doesn't want to be with men who are cheap.



So you do believe that money = gentleman. If a woman does not want to be around someone that does not spend money on her, and that even if a guy who doesn't have money to lavish her with baubles and things and that equals "cheap" but they could be perfect gentlemen... then money = gentlemen, lack of money = cheap and not a gentleman. It has fuckall to do with their ability to be a gentleman, but the strength of their wallet.

That's fucking shallow no matter how you slice it.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 11:23:30 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The only thing I have to add to this is that people who are stingy tend to be like that in all aspects of their life, not just financial but emotional. Generous people are generous with affection also. And that matters to me.

So sometimes I buy meals and sometimes he does, but we don't keep a running tab in our head of who had the more expensive meal. People who do that eventually expect repayment either men with sex or women with gifts. We don't do that. Although I am hoping for chocolates for Valentine's Day. Simply because I like chocolate.


I think two things are being confused here, probably more than two things: generosity, sincerity and expectation.

I know people who have contracts put together when they are serious with a lady in order to safeguard their assets. Never in a million years would I do that because it would make life far too mechanical for my liking. She could be picking cockles on a beach without a metaphorical pot to piss on.

The point for me is that life is not about money. But, that works both ways, whether you have it or you want it.

In all honesty, money is wasted on me, as all I do is buy books, walk, swim, have the odd pint. If it weren't for the fact I love going abroad it would just just build up beyond any sense.



Where did I mention giving gifts? I was talking about people in a relationship who go out for meals and the people who are generous spiritually tend to split the bill. The stingy ones go over it with a fine tooth comb "Well you had a second soda so you owe $1.50 more than me". Have you never seen this?

The types who do that keep a running tab in their head. And that's wrong, no matter how you want repayment. Plus they seem to think affection is something that if they give, they have less of. So they are stingy with hand holding, hugging when the other person has a bad day, etc.

About book buying, I'm a fan of a saying of Erasmus "when I have money I buy books, if there's a little left then I buy food". Although nowadays I buy ebooks instead.

If I get remarried, of course we'll have a pre-nup and wills. Because my assets should go to my children and his assets to his, not to the children of the one who outlived the other. And without paperwork, one third of the estate goes to the spouse according to NY law.


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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 12:16:28 PM   
crumpets


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From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
one third of the estate goes to the spouse according to NY law.


And two thirds to the lawyers!

Speaking of gifts!

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 4:26:12 PM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
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From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline 		Fr~ing it (because this had way too many posts here by the time I got here)

I agree with what TieMeInKnots said: "Me? I am nervous about letting a man buy me DINNER because I never want to be beholden to someone (I am like that across the board though-parents, siblings..you take their money and you may have to accept their interference).

I totally agree....I don't like the idea of ever being beholden to someone....even family and friends.

My parents....especially my father....drilled into my siblings and me that we need to be financially independent. I grew up with friends whose biggest dream in life was to find a husband so they could just have kids and be a happy housewife. My parents taught us that while being married and having kids is great, we should never EVER get into a relationship where we are completely dependent on our partner. They taught us that you can never completely rely on anything or anybody. Divorce statistics aside, even if I would have found my dream man when I was in my early 20s and we were still married into our 50s, there is nothing to guarantee that he (as the primary or sole breadwinner) wouldn't become disabled someday or get killed in a car accident.

I know at least.....8 or 9 (probably more) couples where the woman is the primary breadwinner and the man is either disabled, has been unemployed or underemployed for a long time or is just a lazy shit.

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 6:54:46 PM   
shiftyw


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Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzzJennifer


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

So...money equates to "gentleman" for you?

Hmmmmm...I think I just discovered why strip clubs are called gentlemen's clubs. And why escort services always direct their advertising to "gentlemen" who can afford the "best".


No, money does not equate gentleman. There are plenty of people who have money who aren't gentlemen. I was saying that if a woman is accustomed to begin with gentlemen, she doesn't want to be with someone who is not a gentleman.

If a woman is accustomed to being with men who spend money on her, then she doesn't want to be with men who are cheap.

It really sounds like the OP is bitching that he doesn't want to spend money being with a "hot" woman. Hot women have a lot more opportunity then other women. Hot women can be ultra picky.


I can be ultra picky too. and I am not "hot"...

and my guy is frugal and doesn't have a ton of money, but he is a "gentlemen"

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/15/2015 7:03:32 PM   
ExiledTyrant


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From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzzJennifer


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

So...money equates to "gentleman" for you?

Hmmmmm...I think I just discovered why strip clubs are called gentlemen's clubs. And why escort services always direct their advertising to "gentlemen" who can afford the "best".


No, money does not equate gentleman. There are plenty of people who have money who aren't gentlemen. I was saying that if a woman is accustomed to begin with gentlemen, she doesn't want to be with someone who is not a gentleman.

If a woman is accustomed to being with men who spend money on her, then she doesn't want to be with men who are cheap.

It really sounds like the OP is bitching that he doesn't want to spend money being with a "hot" woman. Hot women have a lot more opportunity then other women. Hot women can be ultra picky.


I can be ultra picky too. and I am not "hot"...

and my guy is frugal and doesn't have a ton of money, but he is a "gentlemen"



Yeah, yeah, you girls always go for the gentlemen for the fine wine and dine, but when you want torn up from the floor up my phone rings... how odd is that?

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 3:00:23 AM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Yeah, yeah, you girls always go for the gentlemen for the fine wine and dine, but when you want torn up from the floor up my phone rings... how odd is that?


Hey, don't knock my cuckolding fetish! *grins*

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 3:37:16 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I never cared about dating for money. I always earned my own way.

Gentlemen are gentleman with or without money.

There is no amount of money rivaling the way someone treats me, and that is not about gifts.

If someone shows me they care, that works for me.

(in reply to NookieNotes)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 4:37:09 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Does it change your opinion, if I also give gifts to show my affection? And buy lunches, and share time?



The following has been said on this thread more than once: if he ain't picking up the tab there's no relationship.

So, he could be intelligent, honest, loyal, caring; but money wins out over these redundant by comparison traits.

That raises a red flag with me; clearly others see it differently.

I wouldn't have friends consumed by money let alone a relationship.

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 4:39:07 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Yeah, yeah, you girls always go for the gentlemen for the fine wine and dine, but when you want torn up from the floor up my phone rings... how odd is that?


Hey, don't knock my cuckolding fetish! *grins*



Nope, not knocking it all. For me, he gets the bill, I get the pussy. It's a win win, really.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 5:11:41 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Where did I mention giving gifts? I was talking about people in a relationship who go out for meals and the people who are generous spiritually tend to split the bill. The stingy ones go over it with a fine tooth comb "Well you had a second soda so you owe $1.50 more than me". Have you never seen this?



When you're out with a group of lads, it's an unwritten rule over here that lads drink in rounds, and everyone takes his turn in buying a round. Anyone trying to buy their own drink, would be pulled up first time; second time they wouldn't be invited out again. So, not only is there a culture of paying your way, but also one of doing it as a group activity. Anyone attempting to miss a round would be frowned upon and would sharp have no mates to share a beer with.

I honestly don't know anyone who is tight with money and not willing to pay their fair share. It's just not good form here.

In terms of a relationship, I have always insisted that things are split broadly according to income. That is fair to me and in keeping with the spirit of contributing to a relationship. I insist on a contribution because I'm no ones personal bank, and she has two legs and a voice like the rest of us, so can go to work to earn money and contribute to the things she wants in life.

In terms of the contracts/assets thing: I understand why people would draw up these things, but it's not for me as while perhaps financially conservative, and some would say sensible, in approach; it is not within the spirit of a relationship (for me).


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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 5:27:42 AM   
Kittenluv954


Posts: 237
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline 		since when did contribution ONLY come in the form of money? i am pretty sure there are homes where the woman does not work, but does many other things. she would probably be pretty offended to hear shes not contributing because shes not putting money in the household accounts. you talk like anyone not bringing money to the table is showing up empty handed. and really, thats total bullshit. contribution comes in more forms than coins and paper, though it seems you are just as consumed by money as you seem to think we are. i would never date someone like that, tallying everything up, considering my income and presenting me with "fair share" invoices lol, constantly counting and protecting his poor little pennies. thats just so petty and unappealing. *shudders as my skin kinda crawls*

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 7:46:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kittenluv954

since when did contribution ONLY come in the form of money? i am pretty sure there are homes where the woman does not work, but does many other things. she would probably be pretty offended to hear shes not contributing because shes not putting money in the household accounts. you talk like anyone not bringing money to the table is showing up empty handed. and really, thats total bullshit. contribution comes in more forms than coins and paper, though it seems you are just as consumed by money as you seem to think we are. i would never date someone like that, tallying everything up, considering my income and presenting me with "fair share" invoices lol, constantly counting and protecting his poor little pennies. thats just so petty and unappealing. *shudders as my skin kinda crawls*


No one mentioned invoices and "the only contribution".

There's such a thing as a joint bank account, where you put in according to your means and the money is used together.

This thread is now so far removed from the original OP, lines of enquiry are now being pursued which were not part of the conversation and logic.

Quite clearly two people sharing a home is another matter, as they have made a commitment where everything is pooled - except a few beer tokens here and there.

I think the conversation centred around two people at the very beginning of a relationship, one expecting the other to pick up the tab. To me, that's not good manners. Forget the money, it's only notes that will be replaced: it's the principle.


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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 7:55:09 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent



quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Does it change your opinion, if I also give gifts to show my affection? And buy lunches, and share time?



The following has been said on this thread more than once: if he ain't picking up the tab there's no relationship.

So, he could be intelligent, honest, loyal, caring; but money wins out over these redundant by comparison traits.

That raises a red flag with me; clearly others see it differently.

I wouldn't have friends consumed by money let alone a relationship.


If he invites me out and doesn't pick up the tab, there is no relationship. It's an early sign of not knowing what's what.

That doesn't change the overall balance in a relationship not being about money.

You are, of course, repeatedly ignoring all the other points of comparison. Fascinating.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Yeah, yeah, you girls always go for the gentlemen for the fine wine and dine, but when you want torn up from the floor up my phone rings... how odd is that?


Hey, don't knock my cuckolding fetish! *grins*



Nope, not knocking it all. For me, he gets the bill, I get the pussy. It's a win win, really.

Jus sayin


Truth!

LOL!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kittenluv954

since when did contribution ONLY come in the form of money? i am pretty sure there are homes where the woman does not work, but does many other things. she would probably be pretty offended to hear shes not contributing because shes not putting money in the household accounts. you talk like anyone not bringing money to the table is showing up empty handed. and really, thats total bullshit. contribution comes in more forms than coins and paper, though it seems you are just as consumed by money as you seem to think we are. i would never date someone like that, tallying everything up, considering my income and presenting me with "fair share" invoices lol, constantly counting and protecting his poor little pennies. thats just so petty and unappealing. *shudders as my skin kinda crawls*


Yes. This (bold mine).

I love my gifts and presents. I love giving back amazing peace of mind, help with personal improvements, buying lingerie for his enjoyment, toys we can share, etc.

I believe, regardless of money spent or not, a relationship is best when BOTH people feel like they are getting more out of the relationship than they put in. Period.

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 8:06:13 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Yeah, yeah, you girls always go for the gentlemen for the fine wine and dine, but when you want torn up from the floor up my phone rings... how odd is that?


And here I would probably be willing to pay for the wine and dine to get torn up on the floor...but that is a whole other problem...men don't want women that they don't have to pursue.

Now that think about it...that may be where much of the crux of this problem lies. Men always want what they "can't have".. You learn early on that being eager or accommodating does NOT get the attention of who you want so...you make people jump through hoops to "earn" you... At some point that evolved into money which is quantitative. Of course...could be that whole "evolutionary" theory that females of all species are seeking males that can protect and support their offspring.

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 8:34:05 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

This thread is now so far removed from the original OP, lines of enquiry are now being pursued which were not part of the conversation and logic.

Quite clearly two people sharing a home is another matter, as they have made a commitment where everything is pooled - except a few beer tokens here and there.

I think the conversation centred around two people at the very beginning of a relationship, one expecting the other to pick up the tab. To me, that's not good manners. Forget the money, it's only notes that will be replaced: it's the principle.


What the OP originally asked was, " I work hard and I make good money. I love what money buys for me. When I buy something nice I feel appreciated and I deserve it.

I meet so many women that want me, and men, to buy them nice things. And I'm talking about women I don't know very well. For example, I saw a woman twice, strictly platonic, and she said she wants a boob job and was hoping to find a man to pay for it.

I paid cash for my car and I love it. If someone paid it for me, I just wouldn't feel good about it. The car wouldn't have as much value to it then.
I don't understand why some women want men to pay for all their things. Isn't what they get devalued and not appreciated? "

I do think we have gotten off of the original question somewhat, but it never had to do with relationships and picking up tabs. The way I read it...it was why a woman would want to have someone else pay for things they desire.

Granted...I think that it is not really gender specific...more men would probably try the same thing if there were more women willing to foot their bills (although...as we see more equality in pay and, in fact, women are becoming more economically successful...we will probably see more men demanding money and women paying just to get attention)

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RE: I Don't Understand About Women & Money - 2/16/2015 8:37:53 AM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

When you're out with a group of lads, it's an unwritten rule over here that lads drink in rounds, and everyone takes his turn in buying a round. Anyone trying to buy their own drink, would be pulled up first time; second time they wouldn't be invited out again. So, not only is there a culture of paying your way, but also one of doing it as a group activity. Anyone attempting to miss a round would be frowned upon and would sharp have no mates to share a beer with.



It's the same thing "over here" with my circle of friends. There's this one person though, who always waits until the end of the time out to buy a round. Why? Because generally at that point, he doesn't have to buy a full one. There are also a couple of people who don't "keep tabs" and will buy rounds out of turn. Why? Because that's what they want to do.

Yup, "paying ones own way" works in this situation, and it's expected. Though, I'm not sure that any of us would not invite the "wait until the end of the evening to buy a round" guy out, because I think we all do happen to enjoy his company.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


The following has been said on this thread more than once: if he ain't picking up the tab there's no relationship.

So, he could be intelligent, honest, loyal, caring; but money wins out over these redundant by comparison traits.

That raises a red flag with me; clearly others see it differently.

I wouldn't have friends consumed by money let alone a relationship.


Yup, "money wins out". Or, as you have said, the *principle*.

If someone would view this as a "money issue", that shows me that we are not compatible in our thinking. I'm sure there are a lot of honest, loyal and caring people that I wouldn't care to have a romantic relationship with. But, there are quite a few that I would. It's nice that it's worked out that way.


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