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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:16:29 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

not only all that...but every so often you hear about these legal horror stories of people who cross state lines with their concealed weapons and run afoul of the law.

And identifying these criminals will be nade all that much harder were this bill to become law...or are you having difficulty understanding that


It's amazing,no matter how silly the argument,no matter that it violated a standard Conservative bedrock principal,that of States Rights,there is still any number of gun fondlers on CS who will jump to the defense of the indefensible
Pretty much reveals their bullshit as just what it is....guns,guns everywhere guns

You missed the point. Like the Pennsylvania woman who was following all reasonable requirements but was arrested because she drove a little distance into New Jersey and they didn't recognize her Pennsylvania permit. She wasn't a criminal, they just wouldn't recognize her permit.

So she violate New Jersey's law...did she not ?
I'm sure she can plead guilty(she was,right?) and explain the mitigating circumstances of getting lost.
Surely you aren't suggesting new federal law just to deal with her situation.
I don't understand just last week a whole bunch of you guys declared we had enough laws on the books...now you are all here saying ,in essence,"wait this law sounds good.Lets add this one"
Make up your minds,the status quo is okay or it isn't .Should the federal gov.be allowed to make New York law null and void ?

After intervention by a lot of people they let her plead down to a minor offense. Yes we do with this law there would have been no problem. She had the gun, not to commit a crime but because she had been victimized once and wasn't going to be a victim again. You cannot see that this was unjust can you?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:20:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

i appreciate your answering that...

there are far too many laws that make "criminals" out of people who are really not.


im curious if anyone here with a concealed carry permit has ever done what we are talking about?

for that matter, does anyone even know the process of being "allowed" to carry in other states?

In Alabama they used to give you the list of states that recognize an Alabama permit. Now they refer you to the web site that gives you information. I take a firearm anywhere my permit isn't good.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:22:22 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

and maybe weeks to procure?

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:24:00 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

You forgot something, Mike...people were stating that there are enough laws RESTRICTING gun use. The law being proposed would not be restrictive...hence your problem with it.

So more laws liberalizing guns is to be lauded?
I think not

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:25:37 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Are you aware of states that issue CCW's for maces ?
If not than I suggest your post requires very little attention to refute
Thanks for stopping by though,it was so nice to see you


Yes pa requires a ccw for police grade mace and for knives longer then 3 inches... Wisconsin has similar laws

In fact any weapon that is concealed even something like coax or rebarb wire can get you in trouble without a permit

Its why its called a concealed carry weapons permit... not a concealed carry gun permit.

http://thearmsguide.com/48/concealed-carry-what-to-carry/

Okay kitten,not that I buy that post...but for the purpose of this thread...and the purpose of the bill...we are,in fact,referring to guns.
Now can we move out of the theater of the absurd and back to this subject.....or are there more mace issues you wish to explore ?


You brought up flordia giving ccws to felons. I explained why they might be giving ccws to felons because a ccw is needed for more then a gun. if you dont like being proven wrong. Dont bring up shit thats easily disproven.

also isnt it you that always whines about other posters telling you where and how to post.

Ironic that your contempt only applies when people do it to you.


But,it is in fact,guns permits that were being discussed in the piece...so again your post is so much bullshit,as is the rest of your diatribe

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:27:32 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

i appreciate your answering that...

there are far too many laws that make "criminals" out of people who are really not.


im curious if anyone here with a concealed carry permit has ever done what we are talking about?

for that matter, does anyone even know the process of being "allowed" to carry in other states?

You can be curious all you want,what you can not do is argue that you somehow remain "non-criminal" just cause you don't like the particular law that's been violated.
Again Criminals is defined by those tat break the law...it's really really simple.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:28:54 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

i appreciate your answering that...

im curious if anyone here with a concealed carry permit has ever done what we are talking about?

for that matter, does anyone even know the process of being "allowed" to carry in other states?


The first thing to check is if your state has resprosity with another state.. for example i cant carry concealed in de or nj

I can carry in md with permission only but freely can in ohio.

The second thing is theres federal transport law. If i move to az. I can bring my guns if i follow transport law ie gun in one area of the car mag and ammo in another.

A good resource is handgunlaw.us its a great starting point on what thr laws in your state are and what the ccw permit requirements are and other important things


And that would be a good way to not act as a ......criminal

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:28:56 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		just to be clear here too....

this bill here has to do with already law-abiding citizens.

it in no way shape or form does anything concerning criminals intent on doing harm with their guns.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:30:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:30:56 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline 		There are no gun specific permits i know of just ccws which are for more then guns...

And calm down you might have a heart atrack being this worked up

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:34:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.

You must have ignored it when I posted the address so you can read the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution which negates this argument. And yet you want to Federalize gun law which of course you don't see as a violation of states rights.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:35:33 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

just to be clear here too....

this bill here has to do with already law-abiding citizens.

it in no way shape or form does anything concerning criminals intent on doing harm with their guns.

So what you are saying is tat the law is "well intended"....
You know what they say about the road to perdition ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:35:38 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:40:29 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.

You must have ignored it when I posted the address so you can read the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution which negates this argument. And yet you want to Federalize gun law which of course you don't see as a violation of states rights.

No,any federalization of gun laws that I would like to see would of necessity mean an amendment to the constitution ,no?
So no violation of states rights.
As it stands now the different states have different requirements for ccw....disregarding those legal ,court tested statutes is an end around on states rights....and yes I disregarded your link as I have reasons to doubt your motivations and I am not a constitutional scholar.
As such I will rely on the fact that these laws stand so I have to assume,given the veracity of the gun lobby,that were they unconstitutional they would have already been struck down.
The NRA and the gun industry not being shy in throwing their weight around

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:40:53 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.



so stef when you say "fail to meet their requirements", does that mean something very consistent with the laws they (the particular state in question) already has on the books? is it almost like the same process a resident of that state would go through?

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:42:14 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.

But the Texas senators bill would make those requirements only binding on that particular states residents...anyone else from any neighboring state could ignore local law were this to pass

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:43:25 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.



well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution? you can't ignore it---therein lies the answer to the whole thread--if it is indeed about states' rights.

but also---just to bring it down a notch, this is a bill that is being introduced, not a law that is about to be enacted. so this is an opportunity for the will of the people, in so much as our people in congress faithfully represent that, to be made manifest.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 2/19/2015 12:57:56 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:50:05 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.



well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution?

Because the point of contention is........guns

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 12:50:36 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

so stef when you say "fail to meet their requirements", does that mean something very consistent with the laws they (the particular state in question) already has on the books? is it almost like the same process a resident of that state would go through?

For the most part, yes. There's always the possibility of a capricious refusal as well. Some states (again, Massachusetts) are a total crapshoot.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:06:04 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.



well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution?

Because the point of contention is........guns


you said earlier that the issue is states' rights---so im unclear how the "point of contention is guns?" it seems to me the point of contention is the relationship between states, and between states & the federal government.

we could just as easily be talking about marriage, or adoption, or driver's licenses, or any another issue that draws attention to the those relationships.

to focus on the minute (the "small" definition, not the clock-time one) here is to lose touch with the overarching argument.

if its about states' rights and the constitution, I don't know how you can ignore bama's link.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 60
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