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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:09:18 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you said earlier that the issue is states' rights---so im unclear how the "point of contention is guns?" it seems to me the point of contention is the relationship between states, and between states & the federal government.

Mike doesn't give a shit about state's rights. It's about guns. They're bad. People who own them are bad. People who don't feel the same way he does about guns are bad. Everything else is a smokescreen.


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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:22:26 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not aware that all concealed carry people are angles...are you,personally aware of that ?

Especially when I consider I can get one from Florida thru the mail....


Hmm. . . would they happen to be a cute angle or are you just being obtuse?

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:24:06 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am in favor of this. I think that if you meet a states requirements, regardless of how lax, then cool. If they wanted to establish a minimum "reasonable" standard for all states on CCW then cool. And I recognize to some reasonable means someone has to be able to prove that they are being shot at before being allowed to carry. Others can't think of any restrictions that make up a reason not to. By reasonable, a course with appropriate subject matter (marksmanship, safety, etc.) and a general overview of the laws of the land.


Wouldn't the background thing for purchasing a firearm in the first place be a minimum "reasonable" standard, since it IS a federal thing?

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:27:57 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		That background thing is only a little less than lame, for the most part.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:34:25 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not aware that all concealed carry people are angles...are you,personally aware of that ?

Especially when I consider I can get one from Florida thru the mail....


Hmm. . . would they happen to be a cute angle or are you just being obtuse?



I think you're right but my opinion could turn around, 180° (You don't know how bad I wanted to do something like: "I might do a 360°" but, I was afraid most wouldn't get it).



Michael

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:45:14 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am in favor of this. I think that if you meet a states requirements, regardless of how lax, then cool. If they wanted to establish a minimum "reasonable" standard for all states on CCW then cool. And I recognize to some reasonable means someone has to be able to prove that they are being shot at before being allowed to carry. Others can't think of any restrictions that make up a reason not to. By reasonable, a course with appropriate subject matter (marksmanship, safety, etc.) and a general overview of the laws of the land.


Wouldn't the background thing for purchasing a firearm in the first place be a minimum "reasonable" standard, since it IS a federal thing?

And here they run it again when you request a permit.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 1:49:03 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not aware that all concealed carry people are angles...are you,personally aware of that ?

Especially when I consider I can get one from Florida thru the mail....


Hmm. . . would they happen to be a cute angle or are you just being obtuse?



I think you're right but my opinion could turn around, 180° (You don't know how bad I wanted to do something like: "I might do a 360°" but, I was afraid most wouldn't get it).



Michael

As long as you keep all side equilateral and you do not fall for any isose-lies!



_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 2:50:48 PM   
igor2003


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For those interested, the site linked here has an interactive map that shows which states will honor a CCW permit from your state. Simply click on your state to see where your permit is valid.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html


And this link lists the various laws, by state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 5:28:08 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.



well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution?

Because the point of contention is........guns


you said earlier that the issue is states' rights---so im unclear how the "point of contention is guns?" it seems to me the point of contention is the relationship between states, and between states & the federal government.

we could just as easily be talking about marriage, or adoption, or driver's licenses, or any another issue that draws attention to the those relationships.

to focus on the minute (the "small" definition, not the clock-time one) here is to lose touch with the overarching argument.

if its about states' rights and the constitution, I don't know how you can ignore bama's link.

No, no, no Bounty...you don't understand. We're talking guns here. Not marriage...of course, one state should ALWAYS recognize the laws of another state when it comes to marriage (those states that don't allow gay marriage SHOULD recognize gay marriages that orinated in another state) or waiting periods on adoption or driving laws (hey, if your state doesn't have requirements for hands free devices and our state does, just go with the laws of your state). But guns...wellllll now, that's another matter.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:25:38 PM   
cloudboy


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You've spouting this primitive view in lame fashion for a long time. If you can't see why many sensible people have a problem with guns, then you're not much different than Bama.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:33:57 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


You've spouting this primitive view in lame fashion for a long time. If you can't see why many sensible people have a problem with guns, then you're not much different than Bama.

And you've been spouting your pretentious view a long time. If you can't see why many sensible people have a problem with those who have a problem with the idea of states rights right up until those states rigrighrestrict gun owners from another state, then you're as bad as some of the other posters on here.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:34:37 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, but the point isn't about what you want, it's about public safety and respecting jurisdictions (code for urban) that don't share your values. Legitimate public safety concerns should always trump NRA fantasy trips about individual rights and "liberty." I know you recognize this b/c you stated spreading guns into Universities in Idaho was probably a bad idea.

For myself, all I have to do is think of that shooting in NC and how the NYT described it:

Neighbors knew Craig Stephen Hicks. He was the angry man on Summerwalk Circle, they said — irritated about noise, irascible about parking, hostile to religion. And armed.

Many people want to know how we can stop this shit, and the NRA line that more gun rights and more mass ownership of weapons makes us safer is, how should we say, INSANE.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/19/2015 6:46:03 PM >

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:41:05 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

just to be clear here too....

this bill here has to do with already law-abiding citizens.

it in no way shape or form does anything concerning criminals intent on doing harm with their guns.

So what you are saying is tat the law is "well intended"....
You know what they say about the road to perdition ?

No it is to simplify things for legitimate gun owners.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:42:18 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.

You forgot DC.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:44:14 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.

But the Texas senators bill would make those requirements only binding on that particular states residents...anyone else from any neighboring state could ignore local law were this to pass

No it wouldn't, it does not affect the standards for a permit one bit.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:46:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?


No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.



well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution?

Because the point of contention is........guns

Then why do you keep bringing back the canard about states rights when you know it isn't relevant.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 6:50:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, but the point isn't about what you want, it's about public safety and respecting jurisdictions (code for urban) that don't share your values. Legitimate public safety concerns should always trump NRA fantasy trips about individual rights and "liberty." I know you recognize this b/c you stated spreading guns into Universities in Idaho was probably a bad idea.

For myself, all I have to do is think of that shooting in NC and how the NYT described it:

Neighbors knew Craig Stephen Hicks. He was the angry man on Summerwalk Circle, they said — irritated about noise, irascible about parking, hostile to religion. And armed.

Many people want to know how we can stop this shit, and the NRA line that more gun rights and more mass ownership of weapons makes us safer is, how should we say, INSANE.

So like mike you have suddenly converted to a pro states rights guy?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 7:19:26 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, but the point isn't about what you want, it's about public safety and respecting jurisdictions (code for urban) that don't share your values. Legitimate public safety concerns should always trump NRA fantasy trips about individual rights and "liberty."

All I have to do is think of that shooting in NC and how the NYT described it:

Neighbors knew Craig Stephen Hicks. He was the angry man on Summerwalk Circle, they said — irritated about noise, irascible about parking, hostile to religion. And armed.

Many people want to know how we can stop this shit, and the NRA line that more gun rights and more mass ownership of weapons makes us safer is, how should we say, INSANE.
And the points isn't about what you want to do about guns, it's about state's rights. You know, the right of one state to set the laws for those entering their state, even just to visit. If state laws respecting jurisdictions are so important to you, then remember that the next time you want to bitch about any state that does not recognize gay marriage from another state...or arrests you for having your cellphone in your hand while you're driving.

"It comes down to grasping the significance of seconds — the ones that don’t show up in the records, and all the seconds my brother will never have."
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/opinion/sunday/did-a-text-kill-my-brother.html?referrer=&_r=0

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 7:20:35 PM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


You've spouting this primitive view in lame fashion for a long time.

Excuse me? Which view is that?

quote:

If you can't see why many sensible people have a problem with guns, then you're not much different than Bama.

Sensible is debatable.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

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RE: Concealed Carry,as portable as your drivers license - 2/19/2015 10:45:51 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		I have to question the accuracy of the article in the OP. The only other explanation is there are people slipping through the cracks. It's illegal for ex felons or misdemeanor violent offenders to have guns or permits according to Florida state and federal law without an expungement or waiver. If there are people with permits who are ineligible by law to posess a gun then it's simply another one of those gun laws we're not enforcing. The NY Times seems to have the information on these people. Find them and prosecute. What's the freakin probalemo ?

Applicants for permits need to show firearms proficiency. There are various forms of firearms proficiency including hunter safety and training certificates, prior military qualifications or proficiency certificate classes offered in places around the state by certified instructors. Depending on the type of permit you apply for it can be reciprocal in 36 states.

If the honorable senator from Texas wants to enable a person with his permit to pack heat with his 15 round magazine and all the rest of it in NYC then I'm all for it

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 80
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