quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Do you really believe we have seen the end of mass shootings here ?
Or is the belief that the frequency of such tragedies will be at "acceptable" levels ?

It's one or the other, isn't it ?

No,wait ...there is a third option ,the Joether hypothesis :There will be more,they will take such horrific toll on public opinion that real reform is called for in resounding numbers .

Those are pretty much the only possibilities I see.
No more tragedies

Some,but not enough to sway public opinion.

Or the third option,the sunset clause ,so to speak .

Acceptable is a misnomer. But the most recent school related one was at a PTA meeting in FL, gunman burst in and a teacher shot him. If they can't get guns they will use bombs, the guy who attacked the NO airport had bombs on him, fortunately a Deputy was there and shot him. I was questioning how Joether knew that the next one would be far worse that Sandy Hook, and there is only one way he could actually know that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

I did state they have not had any more massive shootings. That death by firearms has declined from both accidental and deliberate. Even suicide by a firearm have diminished. Why are people still dying from firearms?

Could be any number of reaons:

A ) People squirrels firearms away
B ) The black market
C ) Police action
D ) visitors by boat*
E ) stolen

*: That people arrive in the country's ports all day from other places in the world. That the owner, crew and/or passangers had one or more guns that were used to kill someone.

While researching your argument's idea, I came across THIS. Its a comparison between Australia and the United States. It breaks things down between two concepts: perception of crime and actual crime. That the two countries share similar perceptions. But that both countires are doing better than the other in certain areas.

However, I think we should be careful when comparing different countries to each other. The history, culture, people, and even events shape laws, regulations, and penalties.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Do you really believe we have seen the end of mass shootings here ?
Or is the belief that the frequency of such tragedies will be at "acceptable" levels ?

It's one or the other, isn't it ?

No,wait ...there is a third option ,the Joether hypothesis :There will be more,they will take such horrific toll on public opinion that real reform is called for in resounding numbers .

Those are pretty much the only possibilities I see.
No more tragedies

Some,but not enough to sway public opinion.

Or the third option,the sunset clause ,so to speak .

Acceptable is a misnomer. But the most recent school related one was at a PTA meeting in FL, gunman burst in and a teacher shot him. If they can't get guns they will use bombs, the guy who attacked the NO airport had bombs on him, fortunately a Deputy was there and shot him. I was questioning how Joether knew that the next one would be far worse that Sandy Hook, and there is only one way he could actually know that.

You know well enough BamaD, that creating, transporting, installing, and activating bombs depends on a number of factors. The material use, denotation mechanism, how parts are acquired, knowledge of putting things together without a fatal error. Takes a fair knowledge of chemistry, engineering, and craftsmanship to perform. Not to mention a source of resources to procure all the parts. Then there is the chose between the person is going to suicide or detonate it while they are else where.

That's alot of effort, when a firearm is pretty easy to obtain, ease of use, ease of transport, ease of concealment, and disposal once finished with it.

I apologize if I implied the next mass shooting would be worst than Sandy Hook. My argument is that if an event is worst than Sandy Hook, not to many people will be in the mood to talk gun control with gun nuts and any firearm owners whom are agreeing with the rest of the nation. That there will be considerably more laws and restrictions placed. I dont say this gleefully; but that people are reacting due to fear, anger, sadness and sorrow. The suggestion that we (as gun owners, moderates, and concern citizens) work towards good firearm laws as a society while things are peaceful and calm. As history has shown us every few weeks if not few months, one such mass shooting seems to take place.

My viewpoint, is its just a matter of time before something is worst than Sandy Hook. Sandy Hook was a pretty tough moment for the nation's people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The ingredients,in proper quantity though,would set off alarms a bit ,no ?
Whereas the ingredients needed for a mass shooting are all right there at your local gun show. Or perhaps in your closet,locked I would hope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The ingredients,in proper quantity though,would set off alarms a bit ,no ?
Whereas the ingredients needed for a mass shooting are all right there at your local gun show. Or perhaps in your closet,locked I would hope.

Clorox and bleach sets off alarms? Buying gas sets off alarms ? So some reading.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

Your claim that crime rates in Australia are not going down is incorrect. In common with falling crime rates across the Western world, crime rates in Australia have been falling steadily for years, as you have been advised previously.

Why do you persist in repeating this falsehood when you have been made aware it is not true?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

Your claim that crime rates in Australia are not going down is incorrect. In common with falling crime rates across the Western world, crime rates in Australia have been falling steadily for years, as you have been advised previously.

Why do you persist in repeating this falsehood when you have been made aware it is not true?

Ok so it has dropped in accordance with much of the western world, by your own words you demonstrate that your draconian gun laws are not the reason, so you have just proved my primary argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Not to mention that the ingredients are easier to obtain and considerably less expensive.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

I did state they have not had any more massive shootings. That death by firearms has declined from both accidental and deliberate. Even suicide by a firearm have diminished. Why are people still dying from firearms?

Could be any number of reaons:

A ) People squirrels firearms away
B ) The black market
C ) Police action
D ) visitors by boat*
E ) stolen

*: That people arrive in the country's ports all day from other places in the world. That the owner, crew and/or passangers had one or more guns that were used to kill someone.

While researching your argument's idea, I came across THIS. Its a comparison between Australia and the United States. It breaks things down between two concepts: perception of crime and actual crime. That the two countries share similar perceptions. But that both countires are doing better than the other in certain areas.

However, I think we should be careful when comparing different countries to each other. The history, culture, people, and even events shape laws, regulations, and penalties.

And I didn't limit it to just guns, other weapons, as always, picked up the slack. You engage in typical anti-gun non-logic by ignoring this fact. When a gun death is replaced by a knife death you have gained nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
The ingredients,in proper quantity though,would set off alarms a bit ,no ?
Whereas the ingredients needed for a mass shooting are all right there at your local gun show. Or perhaps in your closet,locked I would hope.

Clorox and ammonia sets off alarms? Buying gas sets off alarms ? Do some reading.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Not to mention that the ingredients are easier to obtain and considerably less expensive.

or that the worse mass school killing was done with a bomb, not a gun. Funny how that never comes up in these discussions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The ingredients,in proper quantity though,would set off alarms a bit ,no ?
Whereas the ingredients needed for a mass shooting are all right there at your local gun show. Or perhaps in your closet,locked I would hope.

Clorox and bleach sets off alarms? Buying gas sets off alarms ? So some reading.

To buy ingredients in large enough quantities so as to create an Oklahoma type incident....yeah I think bells start going off.
I wasn't referring to making a Molotov cocktail Bama.


edited to add.....I'm always reading,that's how I saw your post
Not as if someone called me up and read it to me yanno.....lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

Your claim that crime rates in Australia are not going down is incorrect. In common with falling crime rates across the Western world, crime rates in Australia have been falling steadily for years, as you have been advised previously.

Why do you persist in repeating this falsehood when you have been made aware it is not true?

Ok so it has dropped in accordance with much of the western world, by your own words you demonstrate that your draconian gun laws are not the reason, so you have just proved my primary argument.

I accused you of repeatedly lying. I didn't say anything about guns. So you are dreaming if you think I did.

I am glad to see that you accept you have been lying. Bye bye your credibility

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Yet in the years after the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia, not one mass shooting has taken place since 1996.

And yet their crime rate has not gone down.

Of course you thought you were quite logical, but the 3 stooges thought they were.
I did state they have not had any more massive shootings. That death by firearms has declined from both accidental and deliberate. Even suicide by a firearm have diminished. Why are people still dying from firearms?

Could be any number of reaons:

A ) People squirrels firearms away
B ) The black market
C ) Police action
D ) visitors by boat*
E ) stolen

*: That people arrive in the country's ports all day from other places in the world. That the owner, crew and/or passangers had one or more guns that were used to kill someone.

While researching your argument's idea, I came across THIS. Its a comparison between Australia and the United States. It breaks things down between two concepts: perception of crime and actual crime. That the two countries share similar perceptions. But that both countires are doing better than the other in certain areas.

However, I think we should be careful when comparing different countries to each other. The history, culture, people, and even events shape laws, regulations, and penalties.

And I didn't limit it to just guns, other weapons, as always, picked up the slack. You engage in typical anti-gun non-logic by ignoring this fact. When a gun death is replaced by a knife death you have gained nothing.

Anti-gun-non-logic? I think I stated things very logically. In fact, I have a pretty good handle on how the human mind handles stress and anxiety when faced with a difficult challenges. Yes, people will use weapons of any sort if they think it will accomplish the task. That firearms are very easy to use, conceal, transport, and dispose of after the fact. That in some cases, its much more preferred method of violence over all other forms combined. The crime rate in this nation has been in declined. Yet, no one can seem to make a decent argument that its mostly or solely contributed by 'honest and law abiding' citizens with access to firearms. As most of the cases in which someone used such an arm, it was in the hands of law enforcement. You know, that "...well regulated militia...." mentioned in the 2nd?

Second, you attack my post without even one clear and clean rebuttal. Why is that? Because the arguments made were really good and undeniable. Its a typical tactic of gun nuts, when faced with facts and reality, to push out fear and intimidation tactics. An each of those tactics have been taken down in the past; debunked as either silly or insane ramblings. You forget, that if enough people get tired of the bullshit, the 2nd amendment goes 'bye-bye'. Sandy Hook almost did that. So based on observation, if something happens that is worst than Sandy Hook, its a good bet most Americans will favor tighter run laws. How many kids have to die to some lunatic (or group of lunatics), BamaD?

I would not wish to know the answer to that question, BamaD. How about you? Irrelevant in how you answer, I suspect we'll both find out. It will be painful, violent, sad, and ugly. After that moment, *NO ONE* will give a shit about the viewpoints of gun nuts in the nation.

We can deal with these issues pro-actively, when things are calm and people are thinking clearly. Or reactively after one of those massive shootings, when emotions are running high and the demand for actual action is raging. Personally, I rather discuss things while we are calm, sensible, and relaxed. How about you?