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RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 5:26:30 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

PS the first time I heard your laws called draconian was by a person making a statement arguing that we should adopt them.

I suspect we will never see a link for this bullshit claim.

Maybe he's thinking of this:

Guns Per Se didnt cause yesterdays horrific events but the easy availability certainly contributed. So maybe the answer is for tighter laws, at least for obtaining guns initially . . . I personally dont see it as draconian to limit certain liberties which danger more than the individual.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4324886

K.



If he did, he is as fucking stupid as you. I clearly said I dont see it as draconian which is hardly the same as calling it draconian, is it brains.

And if you are going to quote me, do it in full or explain you have snipped a large chunk from my post, even if you did link to it. Your action kind of alters how it reads.



(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 5:37:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

PS the first time I heard your laws called draconian was by a person making a statement arguing that we should adopt them.

I suspect we will never see a link for this bullshit claim.

Well I do recall someone once injecting the adjective "draconian" (which nobody had suggested) in order to deny it.

Guns Per Se didnt cause yesterdays horrific events but the easy availability certainly contributed. So maybe the answer is for tighter laws, at least for obtaining guns initially . . . I personally dont see it as draconian to limit certain liberties which danger more than the individual.

Guess who that would be.

K.


The one I was referring to was a big shot in Hollywood calling for Europeans style gun laws in the 90's during the post Columbine hysteria after some people had been blaming violent video games and movies. Back then not everything went on the internet.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 5:47:09 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The one I was referring to was a big shot in Hollywood calling for Europeans style gun laws in the 90's during the post Columbine hysteria after some people had been blaming violent video games and movies. Back then not everything went on the internet.



Bullshit, the only Holywood star I have heard calling UK Gun laws draconian was Charlton Heston when he was president of the NRA. I doubt Ben Hur was advocating taking up our gun laws.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 6:15:09 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

If he did, he is as fucking stupid as you. I clearly said I dont see it as draconian which is hardly the same as calling it draconian, is it brains.

Nevertheless, you're the one who felt it appropriate to inject the adjective "draconian" in that context. Nobody else had suggested such a thing. Apparently you just felt the need to deny it anyway. Funny, eh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

And if you are going to me, do it in full or explain you have snipped a large chunk from my post, even if you did link to it. Your action kind of alters how it reads.

Quote you? Where? I didn't use the quote function, or even quotation marks, and I didn't identify the speaker in either edit of the post. I just reproduced some text, with an explicit ellipsis to show that I had skipped some intervening content. Should I have explained what an ellipsis means?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/24/2015 6:36:44 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 6:30:08 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The one I was referring to was a big shot in Hollywood calling for Europeans style gun laws in the 90's during the post Columbine hysteria after some people had been blaming violent video games and movies. Back then not everything went on the internet.

Well then I guess you're in deep shit. Because if it ain't on the Internet, it didn't happen.

K.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 245
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 6:35:51 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Now you are out and out lying you arsehole. Not only did you quote my words, at least the start and finish of my post, but you linked to it. You also said "Guess who that would be"....... Not much of a guess if you then pointed people straight to it you tosser.

What is obvious is that you went to the length of doing a search to prove a point and all you proved was fuck all about fuck all.


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Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 6:46:03 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Now you are out and out lying you arsehole. Not only did you quote my words, at least the start and finish of my post, but you linked to it. You also said "Guess who that would be"....... Not much of a guess if you then pointed people straight to it you tosser.

What is obvious is that you went to the length of doing a search to prove a point and all you proved was fuck all about fuck all.

Well I'll admit that I'm playing a little fast and loose with you. It was a quote, of course, but I didn't put it in a quote box to identify the speaker, or claim that "Politesub53 said this." Yes it was you, but I didn't want to give away the secret up front. After all, who would have guessed?

K.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 7:36:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The one I was referring to was a big shot in Hollywood calling for Europeans style gun laws in the 90's during the post Columbine hysteria after some people had been blaming violent video games and movies. Back then not everything went on the internet.

Well then I guess you're in deep shit. Because if it ain't on the Internet, it didn't happen.

K.



If they don't like it it doesn't make any difference if it was on the internet.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/24/2015 8:00:25 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
~ FR ~

Here's an interesting find. On May 24, 2013, the UK Telegraph ran a "new law competition".

Telegraph new law competition: vote now

Last week, as Westminster discussed Private Members Bills, we asked you to provide MPs with some inspiration . . . The readers of telegraph.co.uk/politics did not disappoint, and provided us with a raft of ideas. These are the six that caught our eye. Now, it is over to you - vote below for the Bill you'd like to see debated in the Commons.

There have been a total of 31,333 votes recorded to date, a stunningly huge sample, and here are the results:



K.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/24/2015 8:04:53 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 4:51:08 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Just googled that one. Wow, have so many sites leapt on it like hungry hyenas!

The Telegraph is a broadsheet paper read by generally elderly conservatives. (Av. age 61, apparently.) And there was no 'No, we don't want guns back' option to tick. Still, that shouldn't put off lots of American gunsters zipping off to the site to tick the 'Yes! Guns are yummy!' box ASAP.

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(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 4:58:03 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just googled that one. Wow, have so many sites leapt on it like hungry hyenas!

The Telegraph is a broadsheet paper read by generally elderly conservatives. (Av. age 61, apparently.) And there was no 'No, we don't want guns back' option to tick. Still, that shouldn't put off lots of American gunsters zipping off to the site to tick the 'Yes! Guns are yummy!' box ASAP.

Since when do conservative views and those of the elderly not count in your society?

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 5:02:16 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just googled that one. Wow, have so many sites leapt on it like hungry hyenas!

The Telegraph is a broadsheet paper read by generally elderly conservatives. (Av. age 61, apparently.) And there was no 'No, we don't want guns back' option to tick. Still, that shouldn't put off lots of American gunsters zipping off to the site to tick the 'Yes! Guns are yummy!' box ASAP.

Since when do conservative views and those of the elderly not count in your society?

K.


God that was feeble, K. I know it's early where you are but, seriously, drink another black coffee.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 5:19:06 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

God that was feeble, K. I know it's early where you are but, seriously, drink another black coffee.

I'm just trying to help. See here.

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 5:38:23 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

Here's an interesting find. On May 24, 2013, the UK Telegraph ran a "new law competition".

Telegraph new law competition: vote now

Last week, as Westminster discussed Private Members Bills, we asked you to provide MPs with some inspiration . . . The readers of telegraph.co.uk/politics did not disappoint, and provided us with a raft of ideas. These are the six that caught our eye. Now, it is over to you - vote below for the Bill you'd like to see debated in the Commons.

There have been a total of 31,333 votes recorded to date, a stunningly huge sample, and here are the results:



K.




This survey seems quite suss to me. The overwhelming disparity in numbers, when considered in conjunction with the complete absence of hand gun ownership as a popular political issue in the UK combine to suggest that perhaps a great deal of those numbers were non-UK in origin.

One might also note that this type internet survey reflects the views of the respondents only (ie respondents are drawn from the readers of one very conservative and right wing paper) and should not be interpreted as a reflection of the views of wider society. This type of survey is wide open to manipulation which seems to me to be the best explanation of the results.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/25/2015 5:41:50 AM >

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 5:46:08 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		nm

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 5:58:43 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just googled that one. Wow, have so many sites leapt on it like hungry hyenas!

The Telegraph is a broadsheet paper read by generally elderly conservatives. (Av. age 61, apparently.) And there was no 'No, we don't want guns back' option to tick. Still, that shouldn't put off lots of American gunsters zipping off to the site to tick the 'Yes! Guns are yummy!' box ASAP.

Since when do conservative views and those of the elderly not count in your society?

K.


He didn't say they didn't count in his society. He was giving his opinion so you should ask why they don't count to him. He then tried to imply that the voters had not choice because there wasn't a no guns option. Now I have no clue why he would think they needed a new bill to talk about a existing law but perhaps he will come back and explain that one. He also implied that there was no way of knowing if the votes even came from the UK which is a valid point but gets lost among the other bullshit.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 6:28:39 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

He didn't say they didn't count in his society. He was giving his opinion so you should ask why they don't count to him.


I didn't say it and nor did I imply. And I'm fairly confident that Kirata realises this.

Perhaps you two should just take this little gem of a pretend-affront to the 'Perpetually Offended' thread?

quote:

He then tried to imply that the voters had not choice because there wasn't a no guns option.


No, actually I succeeded in implying it. It wasn't hard to find that there wasn't a 'No, I don't want guns back' because, unsurprisingly, I was quite keen to tick such a box.

quote:

Now I have no clue why he would think they needed a new bill to talk about a existing law but perhaps he will come back and explain that one. He also implied that there was no way of knowing if the votes even came from the UK which is a valid point but gets lost among the other bullshit.


Yup. The votes could have come from any old windbag conservative gunster from America. (I understand that the Telegraph Online is quite popular with such types your side of the pond.) As for 'a new bill to talk about a existing law' ... I don't know what that means. You'll have to rephrase it.

The notion that lots of us, never mind a majority of us, want guns back here in the UK is *massively* counterintuitive. Which Brits - righties, lefties - here on CM's boards do you think would support this? The most I've ever seen is some guarded support for repealing the strict measures taken after Dunblane.

We don't want a gun situation like you have in the USA. It's a fantasy.


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Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 9:50:27 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just googled that one. Wow, have so many sites leapt on it like hungry hyenas!

The Telegraph is a broadsheet paper read by generally elderly conservatives. (Av. age 61, apparently.) And there was no 'No, we don't want guns back' option to tick. Still, that shouldn't put off lots of American gunsters zipping off to the site to tick the 'Yes! Guns are yummy!' box ASAP.

Since when do conservative views and those of the elderly not count in your society?

K.

See, it is on the net but they find an excuse to dismiss it since it doesn't fit the narrative.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 9:53:27 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

He didn't say they didn't count in his society. He was giving his opinion so you should ask why they don't count to him.


I didn't say it and nor did I imply. And I'm fairly confident that Kirata realises this.

Perhaps you two should just take this little gem of a pretend-affront to the 'Perpetually Offended' thread?

quote:

He then tried to imply that the voters had not choice because there wasn't a no guns option.


No, actually I succeeded in implying it. It wasn't hard to find that there wasn't a 'No, I don't want guns back' because, unsurprisingly, I was quite keen to tick such a box.

quote:

Now I have no clue why he would think they needed a new bill to talk about a existing law but perhaps he will come back and explain that one. He also implied that there was no way of knowing if the votes even came from the UK which is a valid point but gets lost among the other bullshit.


Yup. The votes could have come from any old windbag conservative gunster from America. (I understand that the Telegraph Online is quite popular with such types your side of the pond.) As for 'a new bill to talk about a existing law' ... I don't know what that means. You'll have to rephrase it.

The notion that lots of us, never mind a majority of us, want guns back here in the UK is *massively* counterintuitive. Which Brits - righties, lefties - here on CM's boards do you think would support this? The most I've ever seen is some guarded support for repealing the strict measures taken after Dunblane.

We don't want a gun situation like you have in the USA. It's a fantasy.


There are no conservative Brits on here.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 3/25/2015 10:03:02 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just googled that one. Wow, have so many sites leapt on it like hungry hyenas!

The Telegraph is a broadsheet paper read by generally elderly conservatives. (Av. age 61, apparently.) And there was no 'No, we don't want guns back' option to tick. Still, that shouldn't put off lots of American gunsters zipping off to the site to tick the 'Yes! Guns are yummy!' box ASAP.

Since when do conservative views and those of the elderly not count in your society?

K.

See, it is on the net but they find an excuse to dismiss it since it doesn't fit the narrative.

You surely aren't suggesting that the survey results are representative of the UK population as whole are you? I mean no one is that stupid, are they ....? It would come as a great surprise to discover that the results of the survey are even representative of the Telegraph's UK readers.

Outside of the US, gun 'rights' are a fringe interest and usually of no interest to the broad mass of the population. That is certainly the case here in Australia, where gun enthusiasts regularly gather about 1% of the vote. That's about as fringe as you can get without disappearing altogether.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 260
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