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RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 7:21:23 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		For someone who only ever uses rw nutjob links AND rejects any others, I think thats hysterical, but onto other things

a meme...not proposed as truth...for those who want to jump on it and say he never said that...
loosen up, or you may hatch a diamond




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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 7:52:18 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I wonder why Lucy wont back him, he is a native born Canuck, after all.


I don't think she likes republicans. And he is not running for a Canadian office.

Worse yet he has read the Constitution and actually believes in that dusty outdated document.



Not insofar as prima facie evidence suggests. He violated the checks and balances.

I think that is a wholly incorrect and unsubstantiated hallucination.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 7:54:49 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz became the first major Republican candidate to declare himself officially in the 2016 presidential race. In announcing his presidential ambition, Cruz repeated a number of dubious claims we have heard before, and a few we haven’t.

Some highlights:

-- Cruz railed against a “government … that seeks to ban our ammunition.” The Obama administration sought to ban a certain type of armor-piercing bullet, not all types of ammunition. The proposal has since been postponed.

-- Cruz claimed that as a result of the Affordable Care Act “millions … have lost their health insurance.” In fact, about 10 million people on net gained insurance between September 2013 and December 2014, according to the Urban Institute.

-- Cruz also claimed that as a result of the law “millions [have been] forced into part-time work.” There’s no solid figure on how many may have had their hours cut to part time, but one analysis of monthly labor surveys said the number was “likely” a few hundred thousand.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/factchecking-ted-cruz/


its been my experience that sometimes (which is already too many) "fact checkers" need to be "checked" themselves...

Well, I've posted links to both Cruz's speech and the factcheck.org analysis.

If there are points you think the analysts got wrong, you're welcome to highlight them.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 8:11:26 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

If there are points you think the analysts got wrong, you're welcome to highlight them.

Sorry dc you are being unreasonable here. Obviously the 'fact checkers' got their facts wrong. How do we know this? They are disagreeing with a right wing ideologue, therefore they must be wrong. Precisely where and how they are wrong doesn't matter, any more than the science matters in climate change or creation or any of the other looney Right's pet causes.

It's really rather nitpicky of you to insist on them demonstrating precisely how and where the fact checkers got it wrong. The details are irrelevant, the ideology all important, it's the only thing that matters and everything else including facts and truth is subservient to that.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/24/2015 8:13:25 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:03:58 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		self-congratulatory and cynical snark does not pass for debate.

like many people, I am capable of being fair minded when it comes to facts---and in this case, all I was doing was pointing out that in my experience, fact checkers sometimes get it wrong. left or right does not matter. although, given that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly left, you might imagine to which side the "fact checking" too frequently leans...



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 3/24/2015 9:09:11 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:34:02 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

self-congratulatory and cynical snark does not pass for debate.

like many people, I am capable of being fair minded when it comes to facts---and in this case, all I was doing was pointing out that in my experience, fact checkers sometimes get it wrong. left or right does not matter. although, given that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly left, you might imagine to which side the "fact checking" too frequently leans...



Who's debating? Not me. Nor you either. You make an unverifiable claim that fact checkers sometimes get it wrong. You decline to specify precisely where the fact checkers got it wrong despite being challenged to do so.

Do you really think people are going take this kind of vague ideologically inspired insinuation seriously ? If you wish to be taken seriously, specify which 'facts' the fact checkers got wrong in this instance. Otherwise consider the advantages of remaining silent.

_____________________________



(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:39:12 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz became the first major Republican candidate to declare himself officially in the 2016 presidential race. In announcing his presidential ambition, Cruz repeated a number of dubious claims we have heard before, and a few we haven’t.

Some highlights:

-- Cruz railed against a “government … that seeks to ban our ammunition.” The Obama administration sought to ban a certain type of armor-piercing bullet, not all types of ammunition. The proposal has since been postponed.

-- Cruz claimed that as a result of the Affordable Care Act “millions … have lost their health insurance.” In fact, about 10 million people on net gained insurance between September 2013 and December 2014, according to the Urban Institute.

-- Cruz also claimed that as a result of the law “millions [have been] forced into part-time work.” There’s no solid figure on how many may have had their hours cut to part time, but one analysis of monthly labor surveys said the number was “likely” a few hundred thousand.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/factchecking-ted-cruz/


its been my experience that sometimes (which is already too many) "fact checkers" need to be "checked" themselves...

Well, I've posted links to both Cruz's speech and the factcheck.org analysis.

If there are points you think the analysts got wrong, you're welcome to highlight them.


I hope not to get into a large back and forth over this dc, but just a couple of comments on what you've highlighted:

banning any type of ammunition is still the "government...that seeks to ban our ammunition" he is clearly not talking about all ammunition.

in terms of health insurance, millions have lost it...he is not talking about there are millions less who have insurance, or even saying anything to which the answer of "there are ten million more people on net" is an appropriate answer to. millions had insurance they liked, but were booted off because their insurance didn't comply with obamacare laws.

in both those instances above, his statements are accurate.

in terms of the millions and part time work---I don't know what the numbers are, and theres probably really no way of knowing, but if its only a few hundred thousand as compared to millions is somewhat inconsequential to that the law has hurt people's work hours and income. and a part of that picture is, even part time workers had their hours cut---here is an article that addresses that (you see the estimated # is in the millions):

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-part-time-healthcare-20130502-story.html

if he engaged in hyperbole there, he's not doing anything different I think than many of the rest of us would have said if we were asked a question about it. on another hand, you mentioned "one analysis", which implies to me maybe there are others.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:42:29 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:44:31 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

self-congratulatory and cynical snark does not pass for debate.

like many people, I am capable of being fair minded when it comes to facts---and in this case, all I was doing was pointing out that in my experience, fact checkers sometimes get it wrong. left or right does not matter. although, given that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly left, you might imagine to which side the "fact checking" too frequently leans...



Who's debating? Not me. Nor you either. You make an unverifiable claim that fact checkers sometimes get it wrong. You decline to specify precisely where the fact checkers got it wrong despite being challenged to do so.

Do you really think people are going take this kind of vague ideologically inspired insinuation seriously ? If you wish to be taken seriously, specify which 'facts' the fact checkers got wrong in this instance. Otherwise consider the advantages of remaining silent.



its a generic statement completely devoid of ideology, that is, it works for both sides.

i didn't know i had to "verify a claim" that i assumed most people would know. you think because I believe everyone knows that, that your sarcasm is somehow justified? or that I don't answer another post according to your timetable, that somehow means what I said is without support? do you think instead you could have sent a polite response saying, "could you give an example of that please?"

given your rhetoric then, I suspect you will gladly read the post I just made.



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 3/24/2015 9:48:28 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:45:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?



Blatant lies? You are the only one who has indulged in blatant lying of the two.

But isn't this thread about the moron Cruz? I mean Obama cant run again and has no hat in the ring.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/24/2015 9:47:04 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:48:20 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

Short answer.....no.
In addition to that,much Like Lincoln and slave owners his opinion doesn't really matter.Guns,like slaves way back when ,are protected by the Constitution.
So gun owners,much like slave owners,can take a chill pill and relax...there guns ain't going nowhere.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 9:53:34 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

Short answer.....no.
In addition to that,much Like Lincoln and slave owners his opinion doesn't really matter.Guns,like slaves way back when ,are protected by the Constitution.
So gun owners,much like slave owners,can take a chill pill and relax...there guns ain't going nowhere.

Let's see, according to your post, since Obama can't collect all the guns tomorrow his lying to promote an anti-gun agenda doesn't count so saying he is anti-gun is a lie. Added to this your ridiculously and insultingly equate owning guns to owning slaves.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 10:16:18 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

Short answer.....no.
In addition to that,much Like Lincoln and slave owners his opinion doesn't really matter.Guns,like slaves way back when ,are protected by the Constitution.
So gun owners,much like slave owners,can take a chill pill and relax...there guns ain't going nowhere.

So according to your logic if someone ran who wanted to bring back slavery anyone who called them pro slavery would be a liar since he couldn't do it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 10:19:37 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

joether said nothing about the law stuff that I saw. That was you.

I was the one who mentioned that it is certainly a matter of his being a loser and getting that because he is hispanic, much as it was repeatedly assured us that was the case with obama for 8 years.


joether said he was stupid, and I agree. Obama has that same law degree and people say he is stupid and many agree.

I cannot find an disparity in the equivalence.

It does upset me some and further astonish me that we have been categorically assured that Harvard is a liberal college and they 'brainwash' students with liberal values.

Does this indicate that Cruz is sentient and performing autonomous processes and not in possession of a brain?

Or have we been swamped by lying rightwing fascist asswipe once again?
Or could it be that some conservatives manage to make it through the liberal claptrap scarred but not fatally?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 10:22:31 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		the cornucopia of posters who wont respond to liberals because they cant handle backing up their own claptrap is the issue.......as obvious from the thread.
Now lets get back to Cruz....yanno the topic of the thread.


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 10:23:31 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

To Ron:)
I dont lying politicians of any stripe or side , I dont like social conservatives, I dont like teaparty candidates and I dont like his policies.
But, you keep him eh?
gonna be a fun year and a half.
God...you must hate every politician out there.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 10:32:41 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I do
english ones, canadian ones and american ones
the others I ignore


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 11:02:59 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

Short answer.....no.
In addition to that,much Like Lincoln and slave owners his opinion doesn't really matter.Guns,like slaves way back when ,are protected by the Constitution.
So gun owners,much like slave owners,can take a chill pill and relax...there guns ain't going nowhere.

Let's see, according to your post, since Obama can't collect all the guns tomorrow his lying to promote an anti-gun agenda doesn't count so saying he is anti-gun is a lie. Added to this your ridiculously and insultingly equate owning guns to owning slaves.

LOL....I never used the word "lie".That's on you.
You asked a question I supplied an answer to that question as I see it.
What is really going on here is that you object to my analogy.
You feel like I just compared gun owners to slave owners.
Try and re-read it,engage your intellect instead of your emotion.
The only comparison in the analogy was one of SITUATION....not similarity!!!!!
Lincoln assured slave owners he would not "molest" their property,they chose not to take him at his word and decided to secede ,thereby stripping themselves of the very protection that guaranteed them their property...the constitution.
Gun owners,and the gun lobby,refuse to take any Democratic administration at it's word....so they continually drum up vitriol and dogma that has one overreaching message ....they are coming for your guns.


I really meant to comparison on a moral basis,but if you choose to read it into it...and act all butt hurt there isn't much I can do to assuage you.
On a final note,this isn't a gun thread Bama.....I know,cause I started the damm thing...this is about a right wing ideologue going to an evangelical college and announcing his candidacy for his parties nomination.

Turn it into a gun thread if you like.....but that will be on you,not me...I would much rather discuss the politics of the thing.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 11:05:04 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

Short answer.....no.
In addition to that,much Like Lincoln and slave owners his opinion doesn't really matter.Guns,like slaves way back when ,are protected by the Constitution.
So gun owners,much like slave owners,can take a chill pill and relax...there guns ain't going nowhere.

So according to your logic if someone ran who wanted to bring back slavery anyone who called them pro slavery would be a liar since he couldn't do it.

Another ,rather stupid response to what was not an offensive post at all....again re-read it using intellect rather than emotion and you might see the analogy works,despite your distaste for slave owners and gun owners being in the same sentence.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: First to throw his hat in the ring - 3/24/2015 11:11:48 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

Don't you think that Obama's blatant lies about guns kind of proves the implication that he is anti-gun rights?

Short answer.....no.
In addition to that,much Like Lincoln and slave owners his opinion doesn't really matter.Guns,like slaves way back when ,are protected by the Constitution.
So gun owners,much like slave owners,can take a chill pill and relax...there guns ain't going nowhere.

Let's see, according to your post, since Obama can't collect all the guns tomorrow his lying to promote an anti-gun agenda doesn't count so saying he is anti-gun is a lie. Added to this your ridiculously and insultingly equate owning guns to owning slaves.

LOL....I never used the word "lie".That's on you.
You asked a question I supplied an answer to that question as I see it.
What is really going on here is that you object to my analogy.
You feel like I just compared gun owners to slave owners.
Try and re-read it,engage your intellect instead of your emotion.
The only comparison in the analogy was one of SITUATION....not similarity!!!!!
Lincoln assured slave owners he would not "molest" their property,they chose not to take him at his word and decided to secede ,thereby stripping themselves of the very protection that guaranteed them their property...the constitution.
Gun owners,and the gun lobby,refuse to take any Democratic administration at it's word....so they continually drum up vitriol and dogma that has one overreaching message ....they are coming for your guns.


I really meant to comparison on a moral basis,but if you choose to read it into it...and act all butt hurt there isn't much I can do to assuage you.
On a final note,this isn't a gun thread Bama.....I know,cause I started the damm thing...this is about a right wing ideologue going to an evangelical college and announcing his candidacy for his parties nomination.

Turn it into a gun thread if you like.....but that will be on you,not me...I would much rather discuss the politics of the thing.

You missed the early part of the conversation.
DC said it was a lie to imply that Obama was anti-gun and I demonstrated that he had gone on a dishonest anti gun rant in the last week. DC missed the point so I was pointing out that Obama lying about guns demonstrated an anti gun bias thus accusing him of it was not a lie then you jumped in to tell me that since he couldn't grab all the guns it didn't count. And your comparing gun owners with slave owners was insulting whether you meant it that way or not. I am not trying to turn it into a gun thread, DC claimed that Cruz lied about something and I merely demonstrated that he was wrong.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 80
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