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ORIGINAL: bounty44

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz became the first major Republican candidate to declare himself officially in the 2016 presidential race. In announcing his presidential ambition, Cruz repeated a number of dubious claims we have heard before, and a few we haven’t.

Some highlights:

-- Cruz railed against a “government … that seeks to ban our ammunition.” The Obama administration sought to ban a certain type of armor-piercing bullet, not all types of ammunition. The proposal has since been postponed.

-- Cruz claimed that as a result of the Affordable Care Act “millions … have lost their health insurance.” In fact, about 10 million people on net gained insurance between September 2013 and December 2014, according to the Urban Institute.

-- Cruz also claimed that as a result of the law “millions [have been] forced into part-time work.” There’s no solid figure on how many may have had their hours cut to part time, but one analysis of monthly labor surveys said the number was “likely” a few hundred thousand.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/factchecking-ted-cruz/

its been my experience that sometimes (which is already too many) "fact checkers" need to be "checked" themselves...

Well, I've posted links to both Cruz's speech and the factcheck.org analysis.

If there are points you think the analysts got wrong, you're welcome to highlight them.

I hope not to get into a large back and forth over this dc, but just a couple of comments on what you've highlighted:

banning any type of ammunition is still the "government...that seeks to ban our ammunition" he is clearly not talking about all ammunition.

in terms of health insurance, millions have lost it...he is not talking about there are millions less who have insurance, or even saying anything to which the answer of "there are ten million more people on net" is an appropriate answer to. millions had insurance they liked, but were booted off because their insurance didn't comply with obamacare laws.

in both those instances above, his statements are accurate.

in terms of the millions and part time work---I don't know what the numbers are, and theres probably really no way of knowing, but if its only a few hundred thousand as compared to millions is somewhat inconsequential to that the law has hurt people's work hours and income. and a part of that picture is, even part time workers had their hours cut---here is an article that addresses that (you see the estimated # is in the millions):

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-part-time-healthcare-20130502-story.html

if he engaged in hyperbole there, he's not doing anything different I think than many of the rest of us would have said if we were asked a question about it. on another hand, you mentioned "one analysis", which implies to me maybe there are others.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

this is from 2008 and politifact (yes, a fact checking organization) rated Obama's "if you like your health care plan you get keep it" statement as "true."

and then five years later, rated that same statement as the 2013 "lie of the year"

that should be enough "evidence" of that we should treat fact checkers with skepticism. sometimes they get it wrong.

but then, ive since learned that fact checkers are "automatically" wrong when (because) they disagree with my position as an anti-science right wing ideologue. so there's that too to be mindful of...

(I trust that goes for the rest of my fellow low-brow, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathers who argue from my side of the aisle too)

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Coming home from one of my son's band concerts, I turned the radio on, which was already tuned to my local talk radio station, and Sean Hannity was on. He ran a bit of Cruz's speech announcing his candidacy. The first thing that popped into my head was, "mega-church preacher." That's what he sounded like to me. To me, that was off-putting. We don't need a preacher in the White House.

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

this is from 2008 and politifact (yes, a fact checking organization) rated Obama's "if you like your health care plan you get keep it" statement as "true."

and then five years later, rated that same statement as the 2013 "lie of the year"

that should be enough "evidence" of that we should treat fact checkers with skepticism. sometimes they get it wrong.

but then, ive since learned that fact checkers are "automatically" wrong when (because) they disagree with my position as an anti-science right wing ideologue. so there's that too to be mindful of...

(I trust that goes for the rest of my fellow low-brow, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathers who argue from my side of the aisle too)

Yes, Senator Obama got it wrong and even call it a lie of you wish but let's look at why.

Business America looked at the 'fine print' and lo and behold...they could just dump your ass in millions of cases.

So Obama could be held accountable for not predicting the continued unadulterated greed of the American busimess community. Why am I not suprised ?

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ORIGINAL: joether

So...Ted Cruz?

"Douchebag needing a better suit" or "In dire need of an image change...like with a mohawk"?

Either way, I found his speech to be a President less than stellar. But then the venue was also deceptive. Mr. Cruz spoke before Liberty University to students. In the videos it shows the area is packed with students. What isn't explained (particularly on conservative media) is those students were forced to attend.

Conservative colleges and universities different from their liberal counterparts in many ways. One of them is pushing an ideology onto the student population. That there are many rules on top of those for the locality, state and federal. These rules are to push a mindset and viewpoint that is conservative. Having been on both a liberal and conservative campus, I can state, the difference is both observable and detectable in information given and received. Conservative 'schools of higher learning' use a system of penalties to discourage activities and viewpoints it doesn't want. They have to tread carefully, as one good legal argument could blow the doors off their long term existence.

The systems use a demerit and penalty. What this means is that if you acquire 'X' number of demerits in a single semester, bad things WILL happen to you. This could be anywhere from missing out on a semester to expulsion! Often the demerits are handed out by individuals whom are draconian to others, but cry when they gain a demerit for the same shit! Liberty University's penalty for not attention its 'speech times' is 4 demerits and a $10 fine. It doesn't take many demerits at that school to create more problems to the student. So the students are basically forced to attend, regardless of circumstance.

One time while a bunch of us were bored on campus, we took the student book of one of these conservative colleges just down the road from us. We asked "What is the fewest demerits we could get for killing someone?" It was just 14. Well below the threshold for being ban for a semester (which is 25), and only if the investigators didn't pin anything on us. Stuff like 'a party' is defined by having more than three people in a room. Or that opening a window is against the rules. That having any kind of alcoholic beverage is not allowed. And playing music that is not 'approved' is also against the rules. Yeah, those are some of the many rules I remember some twenty years later! Given that school, I doubt things have changed.

Likewise, the school is very open to political viewpoints. Just as long as those viewpoints are conservative! For instance in 2009, the campus's Democratic Party was shutdown. Fearing a valid lawsuit (and reduction in federal funds), they allowed the organization to exist. HOWEVER....it could not be called 'Democrat' nor be associated with the Democratic Party. ALSO, this organization had to be pro-marriage and anti-abortion. A string of other requirements were also made beyond that. An what requirements and/or strings are the Republican Party on campus required to perform? None.

I for one would be appalled of any political group being forced through hoops that other political parties on campus did not have to endure. But thats because I was on a liberal campus....

While the school states there are Rand Paul supporters (those would be the ones in the red shirts in the videos seen), they number just 12. Yes, 12 people in the 10,000+ students that were required to attend. That's less then 0.1% of the total population.

So the viewer is given a number of deceptions without realizing things with Ted Cruz's announcement is full of shit. And he and the university have the balls to state "they are for liberty"......

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: joether

So...Ted Cruz?

"Douchebag needing a better suit" or "In dire need of an image change...like with a mohawk"?

Either way, I found his speech to be a President less than stellar. But then the venue was also deceptive. Mr. Cruz spoke before Liberty University to students. In the videos it shows the area is packed with students. What isn't explained (particularly on conservative media) is those students were forced to attend.

Conservative colleges and universities different from their liberal counterparts in many ways. One of them is pushing an ideology onto the student population. That there are many rules on top of those for the locality, state and federal. These rules are to push a mindset and viewpoint that is conservative. Having been on both a liberal and conservative campus, I can state, the difference is both observable and detectable in information given and received. Conservative 'schools of higher learning' use a system of penalties to discourage activities and viewpoints it doesn't want. They have to tread carefully, as one good legal argument could blow the doors off their long term existence.

The systems use a demerit and penalty. What this means is that if you acquire 'X' number of demerits in a single semester, bad things WILL happen to you. This could be anywhere from missing out on a semester to expulsion! Often the demerits are handed out by individuals whom are draconian to others, but cry when they gain a demerit for the same shit! Liberty University's penalty for not attention its 'speech times' is 4 demerits and a $10 fine. It doesn't take many demerits at that school to create more problems to the student. So the students are basically forced to attend, regardless of circumstance.

One time while a bunch of us were bored on campus, we took the student book of one of these conservative colleges just down the road from us. We asked "What is the fewest demerits we could get for killing someone?" It was just 14. Well below the threshold for being ban for a semester (which is 25), and only if the investigators didn't pin anything on us. Stuff like 'a party' is defined by having more than three people in a room. Or that opening a window is against the rules. That having any kind of alcoholic beverage is not allowed. And playing music that is not 'approved' is also against the rules. Yeah, those are some of the many rules I remember some twenty years later! Given that school, I doubt things have changed.

Likewise, the school is very open to political viewpoints. Just as long as those viewpoints are conservative! For instance in 2009, the campus's Democratic Party was shutdown. Fearing a valid lawsuit (and reduction in federal funds), they allowed the organization to exist. HOWEVER....it could not be called 'Democrat' nor be associated with the Democratic Party. ALSO, this organization had to be pro-marriage and anti-abortion. A string of other requirements were also made beyond that. An what requirements and/or strings are the Republican Party on campus required to perform? None.

I for one would be appalled of any political group being forced through hoops that other political parties on campus did not have to endure. But thats because I was on a liberal campus....

While the school states there are Rand Paul supporters (those would be the ones in the red shirts in the videos seen), they number just 12. Yes, 12 people in the 10,000+ students that were required to attend. That's less then 0.1% of the total population.

So the viewer is given a number of deceptions without realizing things with Ted Cruz's announcement is full of shit. And he and the university have the balls to state "they are for liberty"......

Seriously???

O.k....name of school where you get demerits for killing someone? Name is school where a legal political party was not allowed to exist? And your proof.

Does anybody, right or left, seriously believe the crap written above by the Penguin?

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I see we've shifted gears from "At no point did Cruz say..." to "But Mom, Obama did it too!"

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

self-congratulatory and cynical snark does not pass for debate.

like many people, I am capable of being fair minded when it comes to facts---and in this case, all I was doing was pointing out that in my experience, fact checkers sometimes get it wrong. left or right does not matter. although, given that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly left, you might imagine to which side the "fact checking" too frequently leans...

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Coming home from one of my son's band concerts, I turned the radio on, which was already tuned to my local talk radio station, and Sean Hannity was on. He ran a bit of Cruz's speech announcing his candidacy. The first thing that popped into my head was, "mega-church preacher." That's what he sounded like to me. To me, that was off-putting. We don't need a preacher in the White House.

I found it refreshing that he didn't use a teleprompter for the whole 45 minute speech. I know it's probably just uber-rehearsed, but, when I see someone, reading off a teleprompter, I assume they don't know what they're talking about or they're not speaking from their heart. Either way, it sucks.
Michael

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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Even if it was straight from the heart, I don't think preacher in the White House is the best idea.

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I don't think anyone that thinks Liberty University is the place to kick off his campaign belongs anywhere near the Oval Ofiice

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I hold no one's faith against them.....I just have a mistrust of those who are so sure their higher power has called them to lead the rest of us out of the wilderness.