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RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 12:54:07 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Agree with what people are saying, that this is not really a bdsm issue, its a "building any kinda relationship" issue.

I liked a lot of the responses in here, two that really struck a note were Ladiesbladeswings and losttreasure. Trust has to be established so that it becomes a tangible thing. The only real way that it can be established is through transparency, otherwise all you are really operating with is "gullibility" not a real sense of trust. Trust has to be built on something concrete and that takes time.

_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

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(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 1:11:37 PM   
rose442


Posts: 60
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Ok I have to get in here now, yes, Master knows about this thread. He knows what is bothering me again. It is a trust issue I have. I am extremely jealous. It has gotten in the way of sleeping and our lives. I am missurable. And it is my fault. I don't trust him because I see Him as being sneeky. I don't think ANY relationship should have anything hidden from a partner. Rather it be a person you meet, talk to or somewhere you go. My life is an open book for him and I think His should be too. I am pissed. I am hurt, and I am embarrased because of what lenghts of distrust I have and make up. I have really no reason to be this way. I feel He does tell white lies. And I feel He does hide stuff from me. And to me that should not be there. Yes I take the blame for this thread and our problems at home. My ensecurities will cost Uus our relationship.
 
And for my tag line (signature) it was true at one point, b4 He moved here. Now I have to get it back. If Master wrote in this thread right now He would tell you it is me and my mind that is Oour problem.
 
I have to cook. Be back later.

rose442

_____________________________

This slave is Masters, heart, mind, soul, and body. To use as Master wishes, when Master wishes to do so.

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 1:14:29 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I agree that in many cases, it is simply a difference of opinion...what is high-maintenance to me may be a 'piece of cake' to another dominant.  Perhaps, as CrappyDom noted on another thread, here too is a case where evolution may be involved...don't know for sure.


Not to hijack again, but can you clarify what evolution has to do with this? Just curious....


CD is referring to the thread "The Problem With Slavery And BDSM", and in it CrappyDom's description of the evolution of people's self-awareness in this lifestyle.  I took CD's comment to mean that perhaps the incompatible people we were talking about were simply at different stages of their respective journeys.

Edited to add:

*blushes*  Sorry, CD... I appear to have jumped in and answered for you.


< Message edited by losttreasure -- 7/15/2006 1:16:27 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 1:23:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

Ok I have to get in here now, yes, Master knows about this thread. He knows what is bothering me again. It is a trust issue I have. I am extremely jealous. It has gotten in the way of sleeping and our lives. I am missurable. And it is my fault. I don't trust him because I see Him as being sneeky. I don't think ANY relationship should have anything hidden from a partner. Rather it be a person you meet, talk to or somewhere you go. My life is an open book for him and I think His should be too. I am pissed. I am hurt, and I am embarrased because of what lenghts of distrust I have and make up. I have really no reason to be this way. I feel He does tell white lies. And I feel He does hide stuff from me. And to me that should not be there. Yes I take the blame for this thread and our problems at home. My ensecurities will cost Uus our relationship.
 
And for my tag line (signature) it was true at one point, b4 He moved here. Now I have to get it back. If Master wrote in this thread right now He would tell you it is me and my mind that is Oour problem.
 
I have to cook. Be back later.

rose442


rose, problems between two people are rarely all the fault of one

_____________________________

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(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 1:50:25 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		"Little white lies" can amount to "not trusting your partner with the real facts". Trust goes both ways. "Little white lies" can amount to lack of strength of character, lack of strength of character doesnt amount to an individual who can be trusted."Little white lies" are rarely innocent. Another reason for transparency, especially until trust is actually established.

I was just thinking about all those threads we have on "respect" and how that takes time to establish, people have to prove themselves worthy of it etc..I think "trust" comes after that point.

How long have you been with your Master RT? Maybe you just need to take a deep breath and relax...all relationships take time..and its in the living of it..facing the obstacles etc, working through things together, creating a history that solidifies it. Keep a check on yourself, if your fears and upsets have no base in reality let go of them bit by bit, if they are justified and you both want your relationship to work, work on them together.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 1:55:11 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

Ok I have to get in here now, yes, Master knows about this thread. He knows what is bothering me again. It is a trust issue I have. I am extremely jealous. It has gotten in the way of sleeping and our lives. I am missurable. And it is my fault. I don't trust him because I see Him as being sneeky. I don't think ANY relationship should have anything hidden from a partner. Rather it be a person you meet, talk to or somewhere you go. My life is an open book for him and I think His should be too. I am pissed. I am hurt, and I am embarrased because of what lenghts of distrust I have and make up. I have really no reason to be this way. I feel He does tell white lies. And I feel He does hide stuff from me. And to me that should not be there. Yes I take the blame for this thread and our problems at home. My ensecurities will cost Uus our relationship.
 
And for my tag line (signature) it was true at one point, b4 He moved here. Now I have to get it back. If Master wrote in this thread right now He would tell you it is me and my mind that is Oour problem.
 
I have to cook. Be back later.

rose442


*sighs again*  Rose... it is mature of you to identify your jealousy and to recognize the risk to your relationship inherent with this potentially insidious emotion.  I applaud your resolve to address the issue as self-improvement should be a continuous process.

However... if your master lays all the blame and all the responsibility of assuaging your insecurities and rebuilding trust squarely on your shoulders, then I can't help but think that perhaps only you are truly "mastering" yourself.



(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 2:04:59 PM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline 		As stated by many before me, trust is an individual and relationship matter not just strictly a bdsm thing. Doesn't matter if you're D/s, M/s, vanilla, rocky road, vanilla with sprinkles or what have you, trust goes both ways in a relationship. There has to be trust on BOTH sides, BOTH sides need to be open and honest to establish and maintain trust or very likely the relationship will fall apart.

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Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 3:34:19 PM   
rose442


Posts: 60
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

However... if your master lays all the blame and all the responsibility of assuaging your insecurities and rebuilding trust squarely on your shoulders, then I can't help but think that perhaps only you are truly "mastering" yourself.



"mastering" yourself" yes I feel this way everyday. Yes I am always the one who gets the blame. I am the one who doesn't trust. But yet there is a part of Him that doesn't trust me. He has people watch me. Some of the reason is for past problems. But now it is because there is still a part of Him that does not trust me.  I have to call Him b4 I get to Point A and B and C and on my way home. So there is some trust issues with Him too. But it is left to me to fix what I screw up. Like i have said in past posts. So who knows. He has only been here for 11 months. Wwe had 2.5 years online and on the phone.

rose442

_____________________________

This slave is Masters, heart, mind, soul, and body. To use as Master wishes, when Master wishes to do so.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 3:36:42 PM   
Kree


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Rose
Didnt this little soap opera play out a week or so ago?  You asked a question like this in one forum and he started a thread in another forum?  His question spoke very badly of you and your jealousy, yet he did not address the issues that are making you jealous.  You need to admit you have moved a trolling liar from California to your home and decide if you can live with that.  If you can not live with a trolling liar, then call U-Haul and make a reservation for him to move his things back where he came from.  If you decide to live with this, just consider yourself willing to violate your basic instincts and core values and live with it. 


edited: damn clumsy fingers

< Message edited by Kree -- 7/15/2006 3:37:56 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 3:38:18 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		*fast reply*

It's extremely easy to blame the slave's dissatisfaction with certain things in the relationship on the slave.  Anything in the world can be excused by the phrase, "I'm the Master and this is what you signed up for."  I don't believe anyone signs up for anything that makes them hurt, physically or emotionally. 

One of the tenets of trust is...not having secrets from your partner.  Secrets are omissions and omissions are lies.  If you feel you have to hide something from your partner, keep it a secret, omit it in your lives and conversations, then it's just wrong and it applies whether you're dominant or submissive. (see disclaimer in my tag line).

There's an old saying, something to the effect of, "I am a mushroom, they keep me in the dark and feed me bullshit."

Now you have to decide whether to continue to be a mushroom, or to turn on the light because you've had your fill of bullshit.


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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 4:24:42 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe one of the worst things about meeting someone online is that people have gotten into a pattern of continuing to seek even after they think they might have found someone.  Its ever so easy to do.  Perfection is always heading your way in the next new answer to your profile.  It sounds like this guy might have gotten addicted to the idea of the grass always being greener where you haven't yet tred. 

That shows lack of committment or effort to making what you have now work.  It also would tend to suggest that he would continue this pattern no matter who he might be with. 


(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 4:44:23 PM   
rose442


Posts: 60
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

Maybe one of the worst things about meeting someone online is that people have gotten into a pattern of continuing to seek even after they think they might have found someone.  Its ever so easy to do.  Perfection is always heading your way in the next new answer to your profile.  It sounds like this guy might have gotten addicted to the idea of the grass always being greener where you haven't yet tred. 

That shows lack of committment or effort to making what you have now work.  It also would tend to suggest that he would continue this pattern no matter who he might be with. 




In a way I totally agree. I believe He was looking for better even while He knew He had me. Long before He moved here. BUT He is here now and I am not ready to give up yet.

rose442

_____________________________

This slave is Masters, heart, mind, soul, and body. To use as Master wishes, when Master wishes to do so.

(in reply to sharainks)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 4:48:58 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		To me, this is not a matter of blame, but of responsibility. If this is not what you signed up for, the only person who can change it is you. He won't. It is too convenient just to leave things the way they are. If it's not working, it is -not- all your fault, but YOU need to look at the buttons being pushed, then figure out what to -do- about it. Did you agree to let him do as he pleased completely? If so, you commissurated in your own situation. Did he agree that you were to be the only one? Then if he's still looking, he's breaching the terms of the agreement between you, and still, it unfortunately rests on YOUR shoulders to decide what to do about it.

Since others have mentioned that this question or one like it came up just a couple of weeks ago, I'd say that talking about it hasn't changed anything -- so now you get to decide... are you going to be a victim, and let him blame you and continue to take advantage of your hospitality even though you've expressed that the situation is not working for you, or are you going to stand up for yourself and clearly state your expectations, re-negotiate your contract into one that you can abide by (and do you trust him to abide by the agreement to stop the behavior that is bothering you so much?), and/or send him back where he came from (or at least out of your space)?

When he lived away from you, you had no way of knowing what he was doing, as you were unable to see him, but this is happening right in front of your face. With that in mind, what will you do?

ZWD


quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442
"mastering" yourself" yes I feel this way everyday. Yes I am always the one who gets the blame. I am the one who doesn't trust. But yet there is a part of Him that doesn't trust me. He has people watch me. Some of the reason is for past problems. But now it is because there is still a part of Him that does not trust me.  I have to call Him b4 I get to Point A and B and C and on my way home. So there is some trust issues with Him too. But it is left to me to fix what I screw up. Like i have said in past posts. So who knows. He has only been here for 11 months. Wwe had 2.5 years online and on the phone.

rose442


_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 5:15:59 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Yes I take the blame for this thread and our problems at home. My ensecurities will cost Uus our relationship.
Then it sounds like you have a decision to make.  How important is this relationship?  how hard are you willing to work at it to make it work?  why is your "past" entering into your future?  is it worth the time for both of you to sit down and lay EVERYTHING out on the table?  no matter how much it may hurt.

Is any of this worth your effort?  Is it worth his?

~smilezz~ 


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(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 7:21:21 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

I see Him as being sneeky. I don't think ANY relationship should have anything hidden from a partner. Rather it be a person you meet, talk to or somewhere you go. My life is an open book for him and I think His should be too. I am pissed. I am hurt, and I am embarrased because of what lenghts of distrust I have and make up. I have really no reason to be this way. I feel He does tell white lies. And I feel He does hide stuff from me.

 
This is a complete contradiction. You say you have "no reason" to be this way, but then you state that he does hide things from you and is sneaky.  Is that not a valid reason to mistrust?  I'm not being critical here, just pointing this out.  Do you trust yourself or not??   Do you have reason to mistrust or is it imagined??? 
 

(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 9:23:04 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

And for my tag line (signature) it was true at one point, b4 He moved here. Now I have to get it back.  


Here is the root of your problem... He came into the relationship expecting you to live up to and adhere to

"This slave is Masters, heart, mind, soul, and body. To use as Master wishes, when Master wishes to do so"

And by your words you are going backwards on this commitment.  You can't walk the talk!  The Question seems to be WHY?

Why can't you walk the talk?  Is it because the commitment was well beyond your ability at this point... or maybe it is never going to be something you can do.  Maybe your Dominant has failed to properly represent himself prior to moving in and now you question everything now that you are learning more about his character and values?  Maybe you just looked at him with rose colored glasses and deluded yourself in the fantasy you wanted to live and not the realities that was going to occur.  Maybe His expectations are much to high for you at this state in your relationship.

But, after you sit their and mess around in the mud... the Why really isn't important!  The only question is... Will you or will you not live to your commitment!  It doesn't matter that your jealousy or lack trust or that he has done this or that.  Those reasons why doesn't mean nothing if you will not live up to your commitment of slavehood.  If you don't want to ... then the choice is simple!

1 - You end the relationship! 

or

2 -  You negotiate your relationship! 



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/15/2006 9:44:20 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

There is a difference in dishonesty and not needing to be told everything.
Peace and Rapture



I am not sure I necessarily agree with this.

I have a list of people (similar to my list of people I allow to piss me off) which I personally feel honor bound to be truthful with.

The thing about me is I will not directly lie about something, pretty much for anybody.  I had a woman who fell down working on the trainss who wanted me to say that we had not talked since the incident I witnessed.  My response was.

1)  I wont lie for you or anybody else.

2)  I will simply answer their questions, although my answers may not be complete.

  a)  I would say that we discussed your injury and treatment

   b)  If asked if we discussed the actual incident, I would respond
         in the affirmative.  I recommended she not lie to them.

She is happily being taken care of on disability for the knee injury
she sustained falling off the train. 

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/16/2006 12:22:36 AM   
GothiqueKajira


Posts: 7
Joined: 6/9/2006
Status: offline 		The easiest way for me to put it, is just to tell you that.. Not everyone is a liar, Not everyone will take your trust, abuse you, and break you down. There is a great many wonderful people out there, waiting for someone to submit to them fully, and you could very well be that person.. and this will just be a faded memory.

I have had a very bad experience before, one that crushed my heart, and nearly crushed my spirit.. but I got up, dusted him off.. Lost some weight, cut and dyed my hair.. In short, I created a new me. One that was a little less naive to the world, a little less trusting, but not entirely untrusting of those around me. I am still very eager to serve the -right- person, though I realize that it's going to take awhile, and it's gonna be some trial and error. My first relationship as a submissive and I failed at it. I see where I went wrong, and what I -really- don't want in a Dom.

Take everything as a learning experience and grow on it. Trust me, it's a lot better than mistrusting those who you can become very close to in later days.

XOXOXOXO


(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/16/2006 4:48:17 AM   
sabswife


Posts: 188
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

How can anyone have trust in a relationship. When honesty is 1 sided. When you have a sub that tells all that she does, everyone she talks to, and everything that is said in her life.
 
But then you have a Dom that hides stuff, tells you it is none of your business what He does, or who He does it with. Who He talks to or what He says to them. Keeps secrets. How is that a trusting relationship? As far as I am concerned there cannot be a trusting relationship in this lifestyle if a Dom doesn't have to be honest with His sub/slave and hide stuff.
My rant is done for the moment.
rose442


thats not a trusting relationship in your post, nor does it describe my relationship with my Dom.  He doesn't hide things from me, nor does He keep secrets from me. 

i have a history of abusive relationships which i am in the process of healing from, so at times i have to remind myself that this is my Dom, not the jerks that messed with my  head.  He knows all of this and respects where i am in the healing process.  if i want to know something i ask Him, and if i need to know, He tells me, if i don't need to know, He doesn't.  i trust Him and His judgements so why on earth would i need to know every thing about what He is doing all the time?

trust comes with time, i would never trust someone who insisted i trust them from the gate.  He didn't demand my trust, He earned it.

_____________________________

"If you look inside your heart, You don't have to be afraid--Of what you are. There's an answer, If you reach into your soul--And the sorrow that you know Will melt away."


(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Trust is a lie in the BDSM world - 7/16/2006 11:20:07 AM   
Curiossdragnlily


Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Trust and communication go hand in hand from "B/both" sides. It can never be one sided. The P/person that does not is setting the relationship up for certain failure. But i know there are M/many out there that do not practice that and it is a shame.
with respect,
lily, collared and owned slave of Master Curios
srn 308-692-331

(in reply to rose442)
Profile   Post #: 60
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