RE: thoughts on the power of religion

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joether -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 3:53:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko Religion is a tool. Tools are neither good or bad. It's use depends on the wielder. Allow me to place it more in terms of this thread. Your original idea here. Let's assume (for the sake of the argument here) that religion is a discovery of mankind. Like fire, navy ships, airplanes, and even super computers; religion was a concept that allowed two possible uses: A positive and negative use. Take nuclear energy. In a positive use, we have energy to power homes, treat cancer patients, and understand more concepts of the universe around us. In negative use, we have nuclear weapons. Religion can be the same was. In the Christian faith, the power of forgiveness is a good thing. Yet, the Spanish Inquisition was NEVER seen as a good thing. I'm sure if I studied this further, I could give the positive and negative examples of each faith. But dragging science into the whole discussion is doing a disservice to science itself. Because science has one mechanism that most religions of the world do not possess: The ability to correct itself. If we were able to prove that Jesus was really some guy name 'Jack Bank' from New Jersey would created a time travel device and went back in time; would every part of Christianity correct itself given this new and profound knowledge? Hard to say. Some parts might. Other parts would not. With science, if you could confirm in test after test, of a cow being born from a horse; that would undermine the Theory of Evolution pretty quickly. To which scientists would discuss and debate things and go from there. Finally, one bad apple ruins the barrel; as the saying goes. A few hateful people of one religion blowing up stuff and killing people may not be the truth reflection of the whole of people in that faith. I've sat in on community discussions in which religious leaders voices solidarity as one group, when someone from one faith or another did something bad. When good people get together, good things tend to happen to those around them. When evil people get together, pain and tragedy are not to far behind. Telling the two apart can sometimes be easy and other times, very difficult.

kinkygymfreak -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 3:54:21 PM)
i like topical discussions there is no act or audience i just saw this section in the forum and thought i would post my own ideas here. just expressing myself. but anyway i couldn't give a shit anyway, if i was after an audience or performing an act i don't think many on this forum would lose any sleep over it. who gives a shit at the end of the day

BamaD -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 3:57:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkygymfreak i like topical discussions there is no act or audience i just saw this section in the forum and thought i would post my own ideas here. just expressing myself. but anyway i couldn't give a shit anyway, if i was after an audience or performing an act i don't think many on this forum would lose any sleep over it. who gives a shit at the end of the day The man in N C who killed three Muslims shared your view of religion. Perhaps the problem you see isn't religion but the people who pretend to follow it. In this case his "religion" was being anti-religion.

kinkygymfreak -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 4:00:07 PM)
look man, a few fanatics does not mean they are all bad no. my point is that religion has been a consistent cause of conflict for centuries. and will continue to be in the future too.

Politesub53 -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 4:40:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr You kind of went back and forth between "Islam" and "Religion"; almost, it seemed, using them intermittently. I'm not sure that belief in any particular religion is what's the real danger. I think it is the particular religion in question. While plenty of people take issue with the Christian/Jewish Bible, the facts are that nowhere in that book are believers commanded to kill non-believers. Yes, belief in God, in a "God is on our side" kind of way, is used as an excuse for killings, but *nowhere* ... let me state that more clearly: NOWHERE does the Bible command the faithful to kill non-believers. If memory serves, the Qu'oran commands it, forty-six different times. I consider Islam, at it's very basic level, to be akin to Nazism because of the explicit commands for death to the infidels. Yes, there are Christians that mis-interpret the Bible but it's pretty tough to mis-interpret the calls for beheading and such that are found in the Muslim "holy" book. Michael Then you need to read it again......... and again and again.

Politesub53 -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 4:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: kinkygymfreak ALL any religion has ever done for humanity is to cause murder,terror,false fear,and general suffering. millions of people throughout history have had there lives cut short because of this crap. it's sad to see but it won't ever stop! 500 years ago the catholic church instigated a centuries long campaign of terror,torture,and murder. for the crime of "witchcraft" now it's islams turn to do some damage. what will it be next?! and i agree that islam is much more hardcore than other faiths and indeed islamic countries are nothing less than dictatorships. because religion has impeded the minds ability to reason and understand. so there countries are barbaric hell holes! I mean this gently, I hope someday you will be able to look back on that statement and realize how wrong you were. Thats some damn fine irony Bounty, even coming from you. << Opps, forgot to say I mean this gently. “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

thishereboi -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 4:56:22 PM)
And yet billions manage to live peacefully while living religious lives without any signs of what you claim. Maybe you should rethink your logic.

thishereboi -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 5:03:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkygymfreak i don't think i am wrong. take the middle east for example a warzone since the crusades! and still is today. thanks to religion. the world has always been divided because of religion. it is not wrong to assume religion is evil. I think he was talking of the future as in many years from now, not in the next couple hours.

DesideriScuri -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 5:17:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkygymfreak i noticed what you support, help for the truly needy. define truly needy? a person eats well has a roof over his head, but suffers terribly inside with mental illness is just as needy as someone without food. personal responsibility, again this is assuming that the individual has no mental ill health or emotional problems. in which case this will lead to lack of responsibility and often self destruction. it is ok to say stuff like that when you have not had to deal with these things.but not everyone is the same as you. For clarification, this was likely intended for me, not bounty... Who are the truly needy? Those who can not support themselves. That is, those who have no choice in the matter. Those are the truly needy. Does someone with a mental illness they have no control over constitute a truly needy case? Yup. Does someone with a physical handicap that prevents him from providing for himself constitute a truly needy case? Yup. Those who do not deserve help, in my opinion, are those who are fully capable (mentally, emotionally, and physically) to support themselves, but, instead, choose to not do so. Do not judge me. You have not walked in my shoes. You don't know what I have or have not gone through. You have an addiction problem? I truly hope you are getting help with it.

Nthrall -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 5:28:05 PM)
1. All religions ARE bad. Religions are tribal and compete with other tribes. All religions are based on core rules and/or fantasies and are out of date from their inception. Small and/or paranoid tribes recruit, persecute, fight, etc. They do this to gain/retain membership and defend their creeds. 2. Statements of belief, disagreement, aggression or twisted arguments won't cut it, even though most of the religious have been practicing this for centuries. All religions are palpably false, they do more harm than good, and they have no evidence to support their claims. 3. No one, with the possible exception of some ascetics, actually believes in god(s) - if they did they would BE ascetics (and terrified). Fortunately there are no gods (as we all know really), and heaven and hello are inventions. Religions are doing their best to create hell on Earth, but at least we can be sure that heaven is impossible, as no good person could be completely happy while suffering exists.

BamaD -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 5:54:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nthrall 1. All religions ARE bad. Religions are tribal and compete with other tribes. All religions are based on core rules and/or fantasies and are out of date from their inception. Small and/or paranoid tribes recruit, persecute, fight, etc. They do this to gain/retain membership and defend their creeds. 2. Statements of belief, disagreement, aggression or twisted arguments won't cut it, even though most of the religious have been practicing this for centuries. All religions are palpably false, they do more harm than good, and they have no evidence to support their claims. 3. No one, with the possible exception of some ascetics, actually believes in god(s) - if they did they would BE ascetics (and terrified). Fortunately there are no gods (as we all know really), and heaven and hello are inventions. Religions are doing their best to create hell on Earth, but at least we can be sure that heaven is impossible, as no good person could be completely happy while suffering exists. And no amount of repeating the tenants of your faith will make them true.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 7:01:18 PM)
Doesn't the bible also mention something about blasphemers and adulterous women being stoned to death too ? It's a long time since I read it, so I may be completely off-track.

kdsub -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 7:20:06 PM)
Religion has been with us in one form or another since the recording of history...Get with it or over it because it has more power than you and over you and will for the foreseeable future. It does not care what you think about its virtues or faults... if you get in its way it will consume you. Otherwise quit bitching and hide from it or change it if you can. Butch

slvemike4u -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 7:29:24 PM)
Wow Butch,you make religion sound scarier than the OP does....lol

kinkygymfreak -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 7:55:14 PM)
see, i have mental health problems and have done since i was 19! and addiction and drug/alcohol abuse is very common amongst people with mental ill health. as we try to self medicate. my point is that sometimes what may appear as if the person doesn't give a shit and is just being a dick, in fact could be related to an underlying problem that can't be seen like physical injuries can. and yes i am attending narcotics anonymous weekly. but i am always going to be prone to addiction and excessive consumption of drugs and booze.

kdsub -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 7:59:09 PM)
lol... I did have fun with it... I would have been a great fire and brimstone preacher 150 years ago. Butch ps...but what i said does have truth to it...I am and always will be a realist.

GoddessManko -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 8:05:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 Doesn't the bible also mention something about blasphemers and adulterous women being stoned to death too ? It's a long time since I read it, so I may be completely off-track. That was the old thinking in days where girls were married young and people had a simple way of viewing things. But it is less about the act and more about the deception and intent. I truly believe the worst of us are those who do things with malicious intent, no matter how small. The Bible was right, rules are for the unruly. Lord of the Flies was allegorical to this fact. Rules allow us to draw lines in the sand, keep healthy boundaries and be able to acknowledge our sin even when we commit them. quote: ORIGINAL: joether Allow me to place it more in terms of this thread. Your original idea here. Let's assume (for the sake of the argument here) that religion is a discovery of mankind. Like fire, navy ships, airplanes, and even super computers; religion was a concept that allowed two possible uses: A positive and negative use. Take nuclear energy. In a positive use, we have energy to power homes, treat cancer patients, and understand more concepts of the universe around us. In negative use, we have nuclear weapons. Religion can be the same was. In the Christian faith, the power of forgiveness is a good thing. Yet, the Spanish Inquisition was NEVER seen as a good thing. I'm sure if I studied this further, I could give the positive and negative examples of each faith. But dragging science into the whole discussion is doing a disservice to science itself. Because science has one mechanism that most religions of the world do not possess: The ability to correct itself. If we were able to prove that Jesus was really some guy name 'Jack Bank' from New Jersey would created a time travel device and went back in time; would every part of Christianity correct itself given this new and profound knowledge? Hard to say. Some parts might. Other parts would not. With science, if you could confirm in test after test, of a cow being born from a horse; that would undermine the Theory of Evolution pretty quickly. To which scientists would discuss and debate things and go from there. Finally, one bad apple ruins the barrel; as the saying goes. A few hateful people of one religion blowing up stuff and killing people may not be the truth reflection of the whole of people in that faith. I've sat in on community discussions in which religious leaders voices solidarity as one group, when someone from one faith or another did something bad. When good people get together, good things tend to happen to those around them. When evil people get together, pain and tragedy are not to far behind. Telling the two apart can sometimes be easy and other times, very difficult. I truly love your frame of thought here, you have a refreshing take on things. Because the truth is it really is 0.0001% of people doing it. quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri For clarification, this was likely intended for me, not bounty... Who are the truly needy? Those who can not support themselves. That is, those who have no choice in the matter. Those are the truly needy. Does someone with a mental illness they have no control over constitute a truly needy case? Yup. Does someone with a physical handicap that prevents him from providing for himself constitute a truly needy case? Yup. Those who do not deserve help, in my opinion, are those who are fully capable (mentally, emotionally, and physically) to support themselves, but, instead, choose to not do so. Do not judge me. You have not walked in my shoes. You don't know what I have or have not gone through. You have an addiction problem? I truly hope you are getting help with it. I so agree with this. Also to Nthrall, for the most part I believe all religions are different versions of the same truth. We as humans tend to distort truth even unintentionally.

kinkygymfreak -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 8:09:39 PM)
yes i will rethink my logic. because i am not infallible. but religion can't ever be wrong can it! i should rethink my logic,maybe people who believe that there was the garden of eden and the ark. and then a man who could walk on water and return to life after being murdered should rethink there logic too! they are free to believe what they want to, but i won't have them saying my views are all wrong and senseless when they believe that bullshit! and the essential unavoidable truth is that as long as there is religion, people will always be divided and driven to violence and cruelty. it doesn't matter how many people are peaceful religious followers, that does not alter the fact that religion is the cause of the majority of the human made problems on this earth! i am not atheist for the record, i am agnostic.

kinkygymfreak -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 8:41:56 PM)
no religion can ignore my views, they will always have a constant supply of victims who will follow the beliefs. and yes it is very powerful and could consume me if i dared to challenge it. probably would get murdered! as for the future, more and more people are moving away from religion and more towards science. the process of understanding and the counter brainwashing of society has started and it will grow and grow.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: thoughts on the power of religion (3/29/2015 9:01:44 PM)
When I was in West Africa, the witch doctors used to tell their followers that as long as they believed, the white man's bullets would turn to water and never harm them. The Bullets DIDN'T turn to water needless to say and there were a lot of bodies around the place. But the witch doctors had a response to that..................."Those dead people obviously didn't really have faith or believe strongly enough". We caught a couple of witch doctors in the time I was there. They obviously didn't believe strongly enough either. But what a magnificent scam those bastards were working and it's been going on for centuries.

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