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The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:24:24 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		This is for those who do this in the real world and live with or at least near their partners.

The problem with slavery is that it sounds so cool and if you are lucky enough to see it it looks so easy.  The problem is you can't see WHY it works.  It is like dancing, the whole point is to make it seem effortless but you can't see the practice, the broken heels, the bruised feet, the string of rejected dance partners that all went into what you now see as two people gliding perfectly in synch with each other.

Submissives come to the scene from the internet thinking dominants are some genetic breed apart from the assholes they have been dating.  They have no ability to choose good partners, their lives are a mess, they want someone to wave their magic wand and make them into a princess who is slave to some immortal and flawless god.

Then they wake up with cum stains on their dress and a master who farts in the morning and they decide he is a fake.

So they read more, they join a group, they meet more people, they start to grow as people, they start choosing better partners, they learn more about themselves, they start having longer and more healthy relationships and years later, they realize who and what they are.  Now, many are going to expect me to say they realize they are slaves, nope, they realize all sorts of stuff ALL equally valid, some realize they want a lot of vanilla with some kinky sex and they are happy with that.  Some are happy being bottoms, some submissives, and a few slaves.  NONE are better, deeper, more magical, or anything better or worse than the other, they are just "right" for that person at that time.  The difference is they now have the skills to START making their choices work.

So, dominants go through something similar, hell I am still going through "something similar"!  They come in and look around and see that by having a slave, they don't have to put up with backtalk and high maintenance women.  Fucking GREAT!  What they don't see is how that man got there.  He came into the scene, had some talent, played around, broke a few hearts, got his broken perhaps but stuck around and played.  As you watch others play you learn, you start to see past the surface and learn what CAN work and you start picking and choosing.  The more you learn to see the more things you start to learn how complex this stuff is when you get past spank and tickle.  Sure he treats her like shit, but he has learned and she, clearly knowing herself, has been able to tell him EXACTLY how she likes to be treated like shit and together they are able to walk that fine line that neither were able to pull off for the last 10 years.  The slave who kneels quietly at her master's feet or sets out his toybag in silence as he plays with another has been with dozens of masters, has played hundreds of times, and has learned exactly what she wants and this man gives her what she needs and because he knows exactly what he wants because he has done the same they can do it together, dance together flawlessly and effortlessly.

So the cycle continues, Mr. Newbie walks in, sees Mr X and his slave and all he sees is this dude with a hot chick who keeps her mouth shut while Mr X plays with other women and he tries to emulate it.  Years later he becomes the new Mr. X and again the cycle continues.

Of course it doesn't ALWAYS work this way, but I bet MOST of the ones who say it doesn't are on their first relationship and the ones who do are in their longest.
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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:28:13 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

He came into the scene, had some talent, played around, broke a few hearts, got his broken perhaps but stuck around and played.  As you watch others play you learn, you start to see past the surface and learn what CAN work and you start picking and choosing.  The more you learn to see the more things you start to learn how complex this stuff is when you get past spank and tickle.  Sure he treats her like shit, but he has learned and she, clearly knowing herself, has been able to tell him EXACTLY how she likes to be treated like shit and together they are able to walk that fine line that neither were able to pull off for the last 10 years.  The slave who kneels quietly at her master's feet or sets out his toybag in silence as he plays with another has been with dozens of masters, has played hundreds of times, and has learned exactly what she wants and this man gives her what she needs and because he knows exactly what he wants because he has done the same they can do it together, dance together flawlessly and effortlessly.


Exactly. This was the process I had to go through, but it never really ends-you don't just arrive one day.

You can't do the dance if you don't know the steps-or even what ballroom you're in.


(in reply to CrappyDom)
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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:30:52 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Oh, it works that way - to lesser or greater degree depending on just how thick headed we are about the lessons that life attempts to pound into us.
 
Me?  I was particularly thick headed.  It took 21 out of 23 years enjoying BDSM in it's varieties before I finally learned what I'm comfortable with in the spectrum on a personal level.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:35:42 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow what a great post! More later. I need time to think.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:35:45 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		You're sorta growing on me, Crappy ... and I don't mean like a wart or sumpin. ::chuckles::

Well said and I do agree ... and yeah, I've been doing this for a day or three. 

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:37:48 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Amen.

It may be D/s that brought you together.. but what KEEPS you together?  Self-knowledge.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 7/15/2006 7:39:05 AM >

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:39:41 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		What about people that are already self aware before they enter the scene? Do the vast majority of them lose their heads when they do? (secretly glad that my Dom is experienced to some degree and doesn't fit this stereotype...Ha Ha)

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:41:21 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		And since I despise people who post long winded diatribes whos underlying message is "this is a long winded way of saying I am at the top of the dungheap" I don't consider myself a "Mr X" yet.  I think I am on the edge of getting there, I am seeing things I haven't seen before but I am not yet there yet.

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:43:15 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Julia,

How self aware can you be "of this" if you just started doing "this"?


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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:47:28 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		I soooooooooo agree with everything you said....i love what you wrote so much  i wish it could be required reading for every person in BDSM...but i disagree with he fundamental core though...i dont see it as a problem....i see it as one the most beautiful aspects of this thing we do.
 
I love that we come here to grow, i love that there is a time honored tradition where Mr newbie can glean knowledge from Mr X, i accept that we are all here to learn grow and that means falling flat on our faces, and i simply love that here like in all families we are accepted for our foibles and fallibility's.
 
I dont see a problem with subs making bad choices doms being too domineering and people getting hurt....i think if you know that all growth and discovery has an edge of risk and pain going in...then you can take the bumps and bruises in stride , as you honor your own orientation as you strive to be the best partner you can be...

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:48:46 AM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds exactly like vanilla dating to me.  People start out not knowing who they are nor what they want.  Each partner, over the years learns what makes the other sex happy and makes a decision to learn to accomodate those differences or decides to bow out of the race.

Consequently,  we get to the point that we each create ourselves over and over again until we dance perfectly with the member of the other sex with whom we "match".

Crappy, I loved your post, but isn't this the dance that ALL people engage if they want a relationship that works?


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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:49:38 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		CD,

We hear often, "You guys just seem so happy", or the funnier one "Do you ever fight or argue?".  I was fortunante enough to find someone  who is a perfect fir for me.   It wasn't an easy journey and there were more than a few pitfalls.  I will say this is the first relationship I have had where I feel like I actually own someone or more to the point that I wanted to.  I've had submissives before but I never could bring myself to take that final step becasue for me something was just missing.  Sure if you watch us it appears easy.  Part of that is becasue we are simply a perfect fit for one another.  The rest of it, they have never seen the discussions, working out differences, and communication that goes on in this house.  I may have the final say but I do not make any important decisions without her input.

I can say when I first acknowleged this side of me I found someone who helped open me up so I could start this journey.  She suffered for it.  She was an extreme edge player and pain slut,  I was just trying to keep my head above water.  She helped me greatly and I would not be where I am now without her.  She also scared the hell out of me.  I was just figuring out that is was ok to tie someone up and spank them ( it is funny now how we can fast forward from that to my little one with her breast bound, me with the knife, and blood on her breast,. boy things sure can change) and she had a barb wire flogger.  I wasn't ready for her and broke her heart in the process.  That was about 10 years ago and I still regret the way things happened.

Things may look easy now but there are heart breaks, mistakes, and a lot of learning and growth underneath it all.

K

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:54:34 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Sunshine, one of the first things I ask a potential playmate is "what are your vanilla relationships like" for the exact reason you stated.

BDSM is very different and exactly the same as vanilla.

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:57:26 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Julia,

How self aware can you be "of this" if you just started doing "this"?




I think that certain people have moral issues that supercede BDSM. I think that the scene is just one aspect of BDSM sexuality. In my vanilla travels I learned far more from having one partner than in having a casual fling. Personally speaking I do not think I have to be  beaten and eaten by 100s of people to know myself. But that is just my opinion on the matter.

I have fought for every bit of self awareness I possess, and most of it came the hard way. If my travels through the scene lead me this way, well lets just say I will learn more from that too. Personally I  am ready for an adventure that lasts a lifetime with one person... but it may not end up this way! I am not psychic.

I see public scening kinda like any other sort of social thing, I outgrew bar hopping many moons ago.... I am kinda a homebody in many ways. I probably wouldn't run out to the local BDSM club if I became available again, it isn't my thing to do alone. I am not a person for large groups of people all the time, it is rather just a treat, and I am well suited for someone that has experienced enough to know he isn't up for multiple partners anymore either. I almost experienced that when with my former dom, and discovered it is a limit for me... a hard limit.. and my present Dom made it one before I even did, so it isn't an issue in my present dynamic.

I think it depends where you are in your headspace as to what you do when you enter the scene. I am not in some sort of subfrenzie like I was a few years ago, I have my head on straight as to what I want... and I think I have found it... lucky me! I waited a long time for it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 7:59:30 AM   
mtumwawaBwana


Posts: 541
Status: offline 		well said Crappy









ill just go back to my ickle corner to continue reading from my big black book of rules from the born-again-virgins-club......thinking i have way way way too much to learn and not enough time inwhich to learn all there is to learn

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 8:01:48 AM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline 		Thank you for your post. I love threads like this.
  It’s true… it is an evolution. When you first embark on this journey your overwhelmed in trying to identify your place in it. You’re also consumed with desire imagining the possibilities. Your mind and body overload. You make mistakes and it seems that most people drift in and out.
  No doubt it teaches you about yourself…if you allow it to. The dominants who really *get it* cultivate their dominance into a type of mastery because it’s more then just a kinky roll in the hay. Its like being gay, its part of you and although you can deny it, its still part of your nature. Over the years it becomes more defined. As it does it also becomes complex… at least for a while…
  And then…
  There is a place you arrive where you are just totally comfortable with your power. People can sense something different about you even though you don’t project aggression, you are obviously in control. Its peaceful in that space because you don’t have to prove anything to anyone. Subs are drawn to you, admire you and truly wish to serve you. You are able to weigh your choices more carefully based on your experiences.  

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 8:02:02 AM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

, and has learned exactly what she wants and this man gives her what she needs and because he knows exactly what he wants because he has done the same they can do it together,
dance together flawlessly and effortlessly.

......



Hey CD, and all....

I think this is a really great post,
and it's applicable really to all kinds
of long term relationships,
.... maybe all of 'em as I try to think of exceptions and fail....

>>learned exactly what she wants
for me, learned is the key word here,
because knowing what we really want
is deep and hidden and complex and mysterious...
..... and changes over time

>>he knows exactly what he wants
 
I'm thinking how rare that is...


>>they can do it together,

More than any other intimate love dynamic,
the flow and transfer of energies and power and love and trust
between the submissive/surrendered/owned soul
    and the dominant/authority/owner soul
cannot be complete without the other.

No yin, no yang.  No yang, no yin.



>>dance together flawlessly and effortlessly.

Well, here I part company a bit with CD
and this wonderful post.

Is any relationship ever really flawless or effortless?
We've all had special magic moments, where time stopped and all was perfect.

But, I think flaws and efforts are a part of reality,
and besides flaws teach acceptance,
and effort builds character and soul.

A very dear love of mine has said a hundred times,

"If you are still on this planet, you've got work to do"

I think she's right.

DD

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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 8:08:16 AM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		What a great post..thanks.. Your ideas help me clairfy my own thoughts a little more, even if, most days, those thoughts seem to be shrouded in fog.  I think we all have to "kiss a few frogs" before we find our partners, if we're lucky, have good karma, work hard at it..whatever fits.  While  there are things that can go wrong and wreck a relationship, even in it's infancy, i try to find something new that i've learned, not the physical stuff, but the emotional and mental.  The expression "The more i learn, the less I know" comes into play here.  I try to keep the faith that somewhere out there is someone with whom I'll mesh, there's no guarantee that we'll actually ever meet, but not getting out to meet people, by hiding from the world, which I admit that I do from time to time, isn't the way of my journey, to become a good submissive, maybe a slave to the right man, but first and always, to become a better person.  I like to think that at my age, when i do finally submit to my partnre in as true a sense as is possible for me, i will offer something more than i would have in my youth, but that isn't always the case.  Sometimes i learn the most from my younger friends -- wisdom doesn't always accompany age any more than maturity does. 

Thanks for sharing Your thoughts...

cheers
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 8:11:35 AM   
eroticangel


Posts: 272
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline 		i think this may be the most wonderful post i have ever read...it is so true and so what we all do or should do...thank you Crappy Dom

(in reply to CrappyDom)
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RE: The problem with slavery and BDSM - 7/15/2006 8:11:49 AM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Sunshine, one of the first things I ask a potential playmate is "what are your vanilla relationships like" for the exact reason you stated.

BDSM is very different and exactly the same as vanilla.


And what if one were to tell you that they had only been in one or two (20 years for one) serious relationships...both vanilla?  In a long term vanilla relationship, a person can learn all of the same things they need to find a potential partner here as well.  During that 20 years, I learned that I had different needs than my husband.  I lived with a fantasy life in my head but never acted it out for the sake of that relationship.  I grew, changed, matured during those twenty years. 

When that relationship ended, I waited for some time to heal and decide how I was going to go about finding the man who could do the things to me I had only dreamed about.  I dated a bit, being very selective in the men that I even allowed a first date with.

Then I found Him (rather quickly as time for someone my age goes).  Is he the "Perfect Dom"?  Hell, no!  Am I the "Perfect Submissive".  Again, "Hell no".  But the interesting thing is that we both, because we have both been in long term relationships, knew what we wanted and knew that there is nothing like perfect. 

People do fart and burp.  I just make sure he doesn't do it in public....lol! 

When you say it is "very different and exactly the same", please define the differences.  I haven't found any so far except in the technical aspects of the implements of the trade and the use of them on my body.

Sunshine


_____________________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

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