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RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 7:16:10 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		You are under no obligation to answer any post that you feel challanges your intellect beyond its limits.



Oh good grief. The Patterson was sold to the military as well as the civilian market. Colt intended it for the military.

Colt first patented his gun in england and france before he patened it in the u.s. The french millitary did not buy any. The britts military did not buy any. The u.s. military did not buy any. It was not until years after it had been patented that the u.s. military tried it out and found it too fragil for the military.

The Walker was still the same basic design. The only things that changed were adding another round to the cylinder, a stationary trigger and beefing it up for a the more powerful .44 caliber ball.

That would be your unsubstantiated opinion.


If I say please, will you go away ?

You are under no obligation to answer any post that you feel challanges your intellect beyond its limits.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 7:30:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I'm not familiar with the Kahr CW. You can keep repeating 7 safeties as much as you want but it still doesn't make your statement twue.
I can't remember nor can I find any credible gun publication or expert refering to a particular design feature on any gun, including the 1911 that may make it safer, as a safety. But keep trying, ya might even change the traditional definition if you repeat yourself enough.


Also called lock, safety catch, safety lock. a locking or cutoff device that prevents a gun from being fired accidentally.


I am using the traditional, necessary and sufficient conditions of safety, that accurately meets the definition.

You are using the definition of equivocation and dishonest mincing.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 8:05:07 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 8:45:54 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.



Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Just a thought, although a rather moot point now.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 8:50:52 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.



Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Just a thought, although a rather moot point now.

As he has said before he sees red when the subject of guns comes up, you can't expect him to
A Not freak when he sees one in his house
B Employ any degree of civility in dealing with the breach in protocol.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/8/2015 8:51:51 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 8:55:11 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

As he has said before he sees red when the subject of guns comes up, you can't expect him to
A Not freak when he sees one in his house
B Employ any degree of civility in dealing with the breach in protocol.

As much as it may seem ironic for me to be posting in slvemike4u's behalf, he has already admitted that he didn't actually behave the way he claimed when he told the story.

K.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 8:58:29 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Following on that thought, I wonder what kind of neighborhood slvemike4u lives in.

K.


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 8:59:55 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

As he has said before he sees red when the subject of guns comes up, you can't expect him to
A Not freak when he sees one in his house
B Employ any degree of civility in dealing with the breach in protocol.

As much as it may seem ironic for me to be posting in slvemike4u's behalf, he has already admitted that he didn't actually behave the way he claimed when he told the story.

K.



I missed that post.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:07:40 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Aylee


Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house,"

If he felt unsafe why would he accept the invitation?


perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Yeah right


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:14:02 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.



Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Just a thought, although a rather moot point now.

No Aylee,I didn't .
He didn't know me,I didn't know him.
Why should I presume safety around an armed stranger.
Sometimes you folks(gun folks) confuse me.....you assert a need to be armed to protect yourselves then assume I should feel safe around your guns ?
If you folks feel so unsafe that you need weapons why should I jump to the conclusion that I am safe because you are armed ?
Do the good guys look different than the bad guys ?


as a total aside....how is the little guy doing ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:16:10 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Following on that thought, I wonder what kind of neighborhood slvemike4u lives in.

K.



A quiet residential neighborhood a few blocks from my local country club....not an urban environment,not a dangerous locality.
The local police forces major job seems to be tamping down the local teenagers and their pot smoking lol

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:18:12 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.



Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Just a thought, although a rather moot point now.

As he has said before he sees red when the subject of guns comes up, you can't expect him to
A Not freak when he sees one in his house
B Employ any degree of civility in dealing with the breach in protocol.

Still not getting the point.
Remove me from the equation.
It is,IMO,highly improper to accept an invitation to a meet and greet of neighbors and than to do so wearing a fucking nine mm on your hip
As long as you choose to ignore that basic fucking fact you will never be able to see the point.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:31:39 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.



Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Just a thought, although a rather moot point now.

No Aylee,I didn't .
He didn't know me,I didn't know him.
Why should I presume safety around an armed stranger.
Sometimes you folks(gun folks) confuse me.....you assert a need to be armed to protect yourselves then assume I should feel safe around your guns ?
If you folks feel so unsafe that you need weapons why should I jump to the conclusion that I am safe because you are armed ?
Do the good guys look different than the bad guys ?


as a total aside....how is the little guy doing ?


The little guy is doing fantastic! Still adorable and still has his "new baby smell," when he has had a bath. LOL Eating well and sleeping a bit less. Enjoying some of the other "baby containment units" that we have.

To answer your question about "good guys" vs "bad guys," no they do not look different (how unfortunate) but there is a different "vibe."

And a person showing up with wearing a gun does not make me feel "unsafe." The person showing up with one of those near gallon containers of hard alcohol makes me feel "unsafe." (Yes, actually had relatives do this. Creepy.) A nippy bottle in the purse or a flask is a different matter. Just a personal thing.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:38:14 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Different strokes for different folks...perhaps in your circle that is to be expected.
My point is how does one go about ASSUMING that someone they don't know will be okay with them sporting a gun in their house ?
Wouldn't common sense ,not to mention respect for the person whose house you are about to enter,have led an intelligent person to leave it in the car/home ?
To me he was being unnecessarily provocative and even insulting by ringing my doorbell wearing a weapon.
To me that was,and is,the end of the conversation.
I don't feel I need to place a sign ,as some businesses do,declaring that my home is a gun free zone.....I feel that should be the default position and that people of intelligence do not need to be told not to bring a gun .



edited to add.....cause I'm a putz and jumped right past the baby stuff....lol
Your mention of the new baby smell caused me to jump to a modern family episode where Claire is holding little joey and actually trying to inhale the baby....lol
The character goes on to talk about the new baby smell....and how it only lasts so long,lol
Enjoy him....

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 4/8/2015 10:04:44 AM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:40:03 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you continued to assert that his error was wearing it open carry...you also object to my insistence he leave it in the car.
So ABC in your post was......wrong.

wrong
I objected to open carry because I consider it unwise and it makes some people uncomfortable. I did not say you were wrong to have him leave it in the car but in the way you handled it. And I said that I would not take a firearm to the house under those circumstances. You are once again misinterpreting everything I said so none of my abc were wrong.

Either too thick headed to get it or too stubborn to admit it.
The guy wore a gun to someone else;s house.
He's the asshole,end of story.



Out of curiosity, did you consider an alternative interpretation for his actions? Instead of, "I feel unsafe in your house," perhaps, "I am willing to defend you and your house as my own"?

Just a thought, although a rather moot point now.

As he has said before he sees red when the subject of guns comes up, you can't expect him to
A Not freak when he sees one in his house
B Employ any degree of civility in dealing with the breach in protocol.

Still not getting the point.
Remove me from the equation.
It is,IMO,highly improper to accept an invitation to a meet and greet of neighbors and than to do so wearing a fucking nine mm on your hip
As long as you choose to ignore that basic fucking fact you will never be able to see the point.

But I didn't ignore that fact, I said I wouldn't have brought a gun into your house, I just said it doesn't give you a blank check.
To clarify did you or did you not open with an approximation of what makes you think you need a gun here?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 9:44:13 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		In somewhat nicer terms,yes....and I still assert I was perfectly reasonable in dong so.
There you go admitting he shouldn't have done it yet still asserting that I am somehow held to a responsibility of making sure I don't hurt his feelings in telling him I don't want that in my home.
Where do my feelings enter into this ?
After all he's the one precipitating this conversation by wearing the damm thing,why is it beholden on me to make nice with the armed stranger at mt doorstep ?


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 10:03:36 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In somewhat nicer terms,yes....and I still assert I was perfectly reasonable in dong so.
There you go admitting he shouldn't have done it yet still asserting that I am somehow held to a responsibility of making sure I don't hurt his feelings in telling him I don't want that in my home.
Where do my feelings enter into this ?
After all he's the one precipitating this conversation by wearing the damm thing,why is it beholden on me to make nice with the armed stranger at mt doorstep ?


First to actually give my opinion on what you said I would have to know what you actually said.
I gave the guy who tried to sneak up on me in the middle of the night 3 chances to get out of it without blatantly baking down.
Why should you be nice to him?
he is either
A no threat so he won't give you a problem over it
or
B a threat so it is in your best interest not to tick him off
C the more diplomacy you show the less argument you will get from him.
D I never ever said anything that should imply that I thought what he did was ok, you seem to have a hard time accepting that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 10:11:20 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Oh I can accept that...what I can't accept is your insistence that I owed this guy kid glove treatment and that I should have bent over backwards not to offend him.
It seems to me that you are not willing to come right out and say the guy was a complete asshole for wearing a gun to someone's house....someone he didn't know.
I have made no argument here questioning his right to that gun.....my only point is that he crossed a line when he assumed it was okay to wear it to my house.
Having crossed that line my obligation to be nice to a guest was no longer in place....IMO
The only reason I remained civil over the whole thing was my nephews interest in being nicey nice with his friends father...other than that my first thought was "what is wrong with this asshole on my doorstep"
Cause here's the thing from my point of view....if this guy isn't smart enough to realize that his gun wasn't invited for a burger,why should I assume he is smart enough to know when to take it out and use it,as opposed to leaving it on his hip ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 10:35:32 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Oh I can accept that...what I can't accept is your insistence that I owed this guy kid glove treatment and that I should have bent over backwards not to offend him.
It seems to me that you are not willing to come right out and say the guy was a complete asshole for wearing a gun to someone's house....someone he didn't know.
I have made no argument here questioning his right to that gun.....my only point is that he crossed a line when he assumed it was okay to wear it to my house.
Having crossed that line my obligation to be nice to a guest was no longer in place....IMO
The only reason I remained civil over the whole thing was my nephews interest in being nicey nice with his friends father...other than that my first thought was "what is wrong with this asshole on my doorstep"
Cause here's the thing from my point of view....if this guy isn't smart enough to realize that his gun wasn't invited for a burger,why should I assume he is smart enough to know when to take it out and use it,as opposed to leaving it on his hip ?

No one said you should bend over backwards to be nice to him. Your idea of nice doesn't seem to reach the level of my idea of civil.
You ignored that I said he was a jerk. But then if you paid attention to that I wouldn't be insisting on an unreasonable position and we can't have that.
You assumed that he would take it out and use it when you should have know that if he was in a habit of doing so he would be in jail rather than at your bbq.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil ... - 4/8/2015 10:39:35 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		There you go...he wasn't actually in jail(which would have made being on my doorstep impossible)so I should assume he is a responsible gun owner.
Yet he wears it because he doesn't trust his fellow citizens
Don't you see the contradiction in those positions ?
He's an armed man,I don't know him...but he's not in jail so he must be alright.....lol

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 220
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