RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass

RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/6/2015 10:02:26 PM)
Freedom does not flow from regulation. Did not a measure of freedom flow from from the regulation ,"brown v board of eduation?

nighthawk3569 -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/6/2015 10:03:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Wtf kinda church does this guy go to where he's gotta be packin? Do you think maybe the denomination matters? Pastor Killed In Illinois Church Shooting Priest and Worshiper Shot Dead At Morning Mass on Long Island Police: Parishioners tackle gunman after church shooting Pastor's mother killed in church shooting K. So you are fine with folks bringing their firearms to church ? Lets disregard that bringing forearms to church actually was the first step in all of those links. The Pilgrams brought their firearms to church. 'hawk

BamaD -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/6/2015 10:06:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Wtf kinda church does this guy go to where he's gotta be packin? Do you think maybe the denomination matters? Pastor Killed In Illinois Church Shooting Priest and Worshiper Shot Dead At Morning Mass on Long Island Police: Parishioners tackle gunman after church shooting Pastor's mother killed in church shooting K. So you are fine with folks bringing their firearms to church ? Lets disregard that bringing forearms to church actually was the first step in all of those links. The Pilgrams brought their firearms to church. 'hawk Back on subject, thank you.

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/6/2015 10:23:05 PM)
The Pilgrams brought their firearms to church. 'hawk Cite please.

JVoV -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/6/2015 11:52:49 PM)
If you are properly licensed in your state to carry a concealed weapon, then you have the right to do so. And the responsibility to respect your firearm and the safety of anyone you are around, in regards to your gun. Congress can make no law against it, but private businesses, religious organizations, schools, and private residents can certainly disallow it on their property. Local ordinances still apply. http://ecode360.com/15947162 § 347-2 Discharge of firearms, rifles, shotguns, starter pistols, fireworks and explosive materials or substances. It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge or permit to be discharged by their minor children, any firearm, rifle, shotgun, starter pistol, fireworks, explosive materials or substances, anywhere within the City of Altoona.

eulero83 -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 1:57:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I believe the Ninth Amendment shows us that the Constitution is meant to be a living document, and not simply historical law. Text The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. It merely points out that they couldn't enumerate every right a man had but that the most important ones had been listed. It in no way allowed for the alteration of other parts of the Constitution by other than amendment. While you are at it read the 10th which you will see prohibits the government granting itself new powers (that would be by evolving the Constitution) I'm not a major in english language but to me it means if there is a law outside of the costitution that entitles you of a certain right (I don't know... tax supported health care for example or food stamps), no-one can say it's not a right because it's not in the costitution.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 2:08:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u There is no need to "misinterpret"the militia clause.....just acknowledge they are there [8\|] But but but, it must have some kind of meaning[8D] It does have meaning muffin,but that meaning has evolved over the years. Perhaps its evolution is not complete ? I added a link to my last post,you missed it here it is again. http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/so-you-think-you-know-the-second-amendment Oh yes, the living constitution, it's meaning can change er....I mean evolve to embrace your utopian world view. Got it. Did you ignore the part which detailed the "evolution" of the late 70's ? What about it ? I looked again and the only evolution the article describes is that of the NRA. Actually the NRA started getting more political in the 60's, not when they kicked out the less than pro 2nd Amendment types in the 70's. if I missed something, by all means please point it out.

JVoV -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 2:32:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I believe the Ninth Amendment shows us that the Constitution is meant to be a living document, and not simply historical law. Text The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. It merely points out that they couldn't enumerate every right a man had but that the most important ones had been listed. It in no way allowed for the alteration of other parts of the Constitution by other than amendment. While you are at it read the 10th which you will see prohibits the government granting itself new powers (that would be by evolving the Constitution) I'm not a major in english language but to me it means if there is a law outside of the costitution that entitles you of a certain right (I don't know... tax supported health care for example or food stamps), no-one can say it's not a right because it's not in the costitution. Not to mention the world has changed drastically since the Constitution was written. Our founding fathers had no way to plan for every possible technological advancement. And 200+ years later, our civilization, based on the founding doctrines of this country, is stronger and more inclusive than it has ever been. Government has to have the ability to adapt in order to remain functional, especially during times of economic crisis or social unrest.

BamaD -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 5:40:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I believe the Ninth Amendment shows us that the Constitution is meant to be a living document, and not simply historical law. Text The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. It merely points out that they couldn't enumerate every right a man had but that the most important ones had been listed. It in no way allowed for the alteration of other parts of the Constitution by other than amendment. While you are at it read the 10th which you will see prohibits the government granting itself new powers (that would be by evolving the Constitution) I'm not a major in english language but to me it means if there is a law outside of the costitution that entitles you of a certain right (I don't know... tax supported health care for example or food stamps), no-one can say it's not a right because it's not in the costitution. Not to mention the world has changed drastically since the Constitution was written. Our founding fathers had no way to plan for every possible technological advancement. And 200+ years later, our civilization, based on the founding doctrines of this country, is stronger and more inclusive than it has ever been. Government has to have the ability to adapt in order to remain functional, especially during times of economic crisis or social unrest. the founders saw that there could be a need t make changes in the constitution and it wasn't by pretending that it means something different today than it did yesterday. BTW rights are not based on technology .

PeonForHer -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 6:59:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD BTW rights are not based on technology . They have to be reinterpreted as a result of technology frequently. The Internet and freedom of speech and privacy; stem cell research, etc, etc, etc.

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 7:01:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV If you are properly licensed in your state to carry a concealed weapon, then you have the right to do so. And the responsibility to respect your firearm and the safety of anyone you are around, in regards to your gun. Congress can make no law against it, but private businesses, religious organizations, schools, and private residents can certainly disallow it on their property. Local ordinances still apply. http://ecode360.com/15947162 § 347-2 Discharge of firearms, rifles, shotguns, starter pistols, fireworks and explosive materials or substances. It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge or permit to be discharged by their minor children, any firearm, rifle, shotgun, starter pistol, fireworks, explosive materials or substances, anywhere within the City of Altoona. My response was simply to find validation for the statement that pilgrams took their guns to church...nothing more.

thishereboi -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 7:09:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The Pilgrams brought their firearms to church. 'hawk Cite please. http://mayflowerhistory.com/religion/ The Church Building. The church building itself had no significance to the Pilgrims, and was kept intentionally drab and plain, with no religious depictions, crosses, windows, fancy architecture, or icons, to avoid the sin of idolatry. At Plymouth, the Pilgrim's church was the bottom floor of the town's fort--the top floor held six cannons and a watchtower to defend the colony. The church room was also the town's meetinghouse, where court sessions and town meetings took place. Isaac de Rasieres, who visited Plymouth in 1627, reported how the Pilgrim's began their church on Sunday: "They assemble by beat of drum, each with his musket or firelock, in front of the captain's door; they have their cloaks on, and place themselves in order, three abreast, and are led by a sergeant without beat of drum. Behind comes the governor, in a long robe; beside him on the right hand, comes the preacher with his cloak on, and on the left hand, the captain with his side-arms and cloak on, and with a small cane in his hand; and so they march in good order, and each sets his arms down near him." During the early years of Plymouth, failing to bring your gun to church was an offense for which you could be fined 12 pence.

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 7:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The Pilgrams brought their firearms to church. 'hawk Cite please. http://mayflowerhistory.com/religion/ The Church Building. The church building itself had no significance to the Pilgrims, and was kept intentionally drab and plain, with no religious depictions, crosses, windows, fancy architecture, or icons, to avoid the sin of idolatry. At Plymouth, the Pilgrim's church was the bottom floor of the town's fort--the top floor held six cannons and a watchtower to defend the colony. The church room was also the town's meetinghouse, where court sessions and town meetings took place. Isaac de Rasieres, who visited Plymouth in 1627, reported how the Pilgrim's began their church on Sunday: "They assemble by beat of drum, each with his musket or firelock, in front of the captain's door; they have their cloaks on, and place themselves in order, three abreast, and are led by a sergeant without beat of drum. Behind comes the governor, in a long robe; beside him on the right hand, comes the preacher with his cloak on, and on the left hand, the captain with his side-arms and cloak on, and with a small cane in his hand; and so they march in good order, and each sets his arms down near him." During the early years of Plymouth, failing to bring your gun to church was an offense for which you could be fined 12 pence. Thank you...It is clear that they did "carry" in church...Any idea why?

mnottertail -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 8:05:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But if ya really needta tho down on Jeebus!!!! image snipped for space One, You are confusing service members with "the government". Two, there are more of us, then there are of them... By a few hundred million Service members are beholden to the government, and once again, this is not the first time you have been confused by reality. They will throw down on you every day we see proof of that. You aren't gonna see a lot of awols. And any number of American Citizens would throw down on the dipshits as well. the planes, the machine guns, the tanks, the napalm, the tech, the organization, the unlimited budget, they may not win, but they will not lose. More dead Vietnamese, Koreans, Iraqis, ISIS, Al-Queda, Taliban than American Servicemen. Hallucination is not your friend.

tweakabelle -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 8:20:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u There you go...I ask someone not to wear a gun into my house.....and you read it as I was being an asshole. Please explain to me why I should care about the opinion of an obvious idiot ? The only way that I can make any sense of Bama's position is if I assume that Bama feels people with guns have more rights or occupy a superior social position to those without guns. With that assumption operative, his position makes some kind of sense. Without it, his position is ridiculous. Which is what his stated positions on most gun-related issues is - ridiculous, deserving of ridicule and not much else.

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 8:32:36 AM)
Hallucination is not your friend. For some hallucination is their only friend.

slvemike4u -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 10:50:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Wtf kinda church does this guy go to where he's gotta be packin? Do you think maybe the denomination matters? Pastor Killed In Illinois Church Shooting Priest and Worshiper Shot Dead At Morning Mass on Long Island Police: Parishioners tackle gunman after church shooting Pastor's mother killed in church shooting K. So you are fine with folks bringing their firearms to church ? Lets disregard that bringing forearms to church actually was the first step in all of those links. The Pilgrams brought their firearms to church. 'hawk Are you a fucking pilgrim ? Have you disavowed all of the other advances in the 300/350 years since ?

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 11:24:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But if ya really needta tho down on Jeebus!!!! image snipped for space One, You are confusing service members with "the government". Two, there are more of us, then there are of them... By a few hundred million Service members are beholden to the government, and once again, this is not the first time you have been confused by reality. They will throw down on you every day we see proof of that. You aren't gonna see a lot of awols. And any number of American Citizens would throw down on the dipshits as well. the planes, the machine guns, the tanks, the napalm, the tech, the organization, the unlimited budget, they may not win, but they will not lose. More dead Vietnamese, Koreans, Iraqis, ISIS, Al-Queda, Taliban than American Servicemen. Hallucination is not your friend. Hallucination might be the belief that servicemen would fire on or bomb their own countrymen. In the state of Colorado, half of the sheriff departments have publicly stated they won't enforce their stupid recently enacted gun laws. That might tell you something.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 11:30:49 AM)
Civil War. Kent State. Of course they will fire on native terrorists. Baltimore 1968. Ferguson 2015. Force will be met with force.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/7/2015 11:34:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u There you go...I ask someone not to wear a gun into my house.....and you read it as I was being an asshole. Please explain to me why I should care about the opinion of an obvious idiot ? The only way that I can make any sense of Bama's position is if I assume that Bama feels people with guns have more rights or occupy a superior social position to those without guns. With that assumption operative, his position makes some kind of sense. Without it, his position is ridiculous. Which is what his stated positions on most gun-related issues is - ridiculous, deserving of ridicule and not much else. I would have to go back and look at the why Mike stated his position to the that armed guy at his BBQ. I thought Bamas problem was with the way Mike was rude about it. No one is saying we have more rights than everyone without guns. It's just that we are asserting we have had that right for 200 years and that we still do. Those without any guns can go arm themselves anytime they want. They have the same right.

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