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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/11/2015 7:06:13 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3654
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		With no immediate danger posed to the officer or any innocent bystanders, the use of leathal force is unwarranted. Thus the murder charge the officer now faces.

Dead people can't be arrested. Or testify in court.

Subduing an unarmed suspect with physical force, if deemed necessary, is within the scope of a policer officer's duties.

Note that even in the Rodney King incident, the Federal judge only considered the last 6 hits or so as excessive force.

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/11/2015 7:09:26 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Leathal force must be the absolute last choice considered.



See, leathal force means actions that will likely result in death. And since killing somebody is really the last thing you can do to them, other options should be considered first.

As tj pointed out tasers have been known to kill.
Batons have been known to kill.
Sometimes the effort of resisting arrest has been know to bring on a heart attack and kill.
Any force can be lethal force.
The only way to be sure not to harm the suspect is to only arrest them if it is ok with them.
Any attempt to use any force can possibly kill so force should only be used as a last resort.
This cop screwed up, it doesn't condemn all cops.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/11/2015 7:36:14 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline 		Reminds me of a song,Film the Police.


Those who remember the 90's might recognize a familiar beat

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/11/2015 8:00:27 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3654
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		It doesn't even diminish my faith in law enforcement as a whole.

Back to the USA Today article I posted earlier:

quote:

Scott, a father of four, likely ran because he feared he would be jailed again for owing nearly $18,104 in back child support, his brother, Rodney Scott, told MSNBC.
"He said that's what he would do, he would run, because he's not going to jail for child support," Rodney Scott said. A warrant for Walter Scott's arrest was pending at the time he was stopped.


This doesn't make sense. If the warrant wasn't active, the officer would have just given a ticket for the tail light, maybe even just a warning.

What am I missing here? Why run? It doesn't add up to me.

Nm... "Pending" isn't meaning what it's supposed to. Stupid leagalese.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 4/11/2015 8:13:08 PM >

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/11/2015 8:30:01 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

It doesn't even diminish my faith in law enforcement as a whole.

Well at the very least, it ought to diminish any faith you had in their weapons training, because I watched the video and about the first six shots had no effect whatsoever. I'm calling them misses, which introduces another aspect to this incident. If he was carrying the typical duty weapon, this cop let loose a wild volley of supersonic 9mm rounds in a populated area, which means it's just pure luck that there was only one person killed by this idiot in a uniform.

K.


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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/11/2015 8:33:15 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		Weapons training.... Yeah....

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/2015/04/06/ocala-police-officer-shot-killed/25382475/

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 4:37:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
It doesn't even diminish my faith in law enforcement as a whole.
Back to the USA Today article I posted earlier:
quote:

Scott, a father of four, likely ran because he feared he would be jailed again for owing nearly $18,104 in back child support, his brother, Rodney Scott, told MSNBC.
"He said that's what he would do, he would run, because he's not going to jail for child support," Rodney Scott said. A warrant for Walter Scott's arrest was pending at the time he was stopped.

This doesn't make sense. If the warrant wasn't active, the officer would have just given a ticket for the tail light, maybe even just a warning.
What am I missing here? Why run? It doesn't add up to me.
Nm... "Pending" isn't meaning what it's supposed to. Stupid leagalese.


It doesn't matter if it was pending, active, even in existence. If Scott thought he'd be arrested for failure to pay back child support, then his perception would rule his actions. He's not likely to wait to bolt until after he finds out if there's a warrant for his arrest.

Maybe that explains why he ran?

It is not an explanation or rationale (for any that might attempt to claim it is) for the cop to shoot the guy.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 6:34:25 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
It doesn't even diminish my faith in law enforcement as a whole.
Back to the USA Today article I posted earlier:
quote:

Scott, a father of four, likely ran because he feared he would be jailed again for owing nearly $18,104 in back child support, his brother, Rodney Scott, told MSNBC.
"He said that's what he would do, he would run, because he's not going to jail for child support," Rodney Scott said. A warrant for Walter Scott's arrest was pending at the time he was stopped.

This doesn't make sense. If the warrant wasn't active, the officer would have just given a ticket for the tail light, maybe even just a warning.
What am I missing here? Why run? It doesn't add up to me.
Nm... "Pending" isn't meaning what it's supposed to. Stupid leagalese.


It doesn't matter if it was pending, active, even in existence. If Scott thought he'd be arrested for failure to pay back child support, then his perception would rule his actions. He's not likely to wait to bolt until after he finds out if there's a warrant for his arrest.

Maybe that explains why he ran?

It is not an explanation or rationale (for any that might attempt to claim it is) for the cop to shoot the guy.


I haven't seen one person excuse what the officer did.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 7:21:15 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I haven't seen one person excuse what the officer did.


I didn't say anyone did, either. But, I wanted to make that disclaimer so no one could attempt to twist what I was saying as being an excuse for the officer. I'm sure you've seen people on these boards attempt to do stuff like that.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 7:55:51 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I haven't seen one person excuse what the officer did.


I didn't say anyone did, either. But, I wanted to make that disclaimer so no one could attempt to twist what I was saying as being an excuse for the officer. I'm sure you've seen people on these boards attempt to do stuff like that.


Yes, I have seen someone doing that, and was just pointing out to the open minded that nobody else had done that either.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 11:00:25 AM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

There's the start of your issues....listening to talk show host's
But just the start


Right, we should listen to you instead

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 1:01:38 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

There's the start of your issues....listening to talk show host's
But just the start


Right, we should listen to you instead

Where was that suggested ?
as another poster is wont to say "you're just making shit up now "

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 1:44:42 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

There's the start of your issues....listening to talk show host's
But just the start


Right, we should listen to you instead

Where was that suggested ?
as another poster is wont to say "you're just making shit up now "


I'm suggesting it as sarcasm to your sarcasm about talk show hosts. If you so smart, why don't you call up that talk show host and see how well your opinion stacks up against his.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 2:25:55 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		My time is worth far too much ,to me,to waste talking to any of those assholes......or their infantile audiences



Bad enough I waste my time taking to an idiot who thinks they can conflate the emotion of love with a symbolic AK-47.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 2:50:44 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

My time is worth far too much ,to me,to waste talking to any of those assholes......or their infantile audiences



Bad enough I waste my time taking to an idiot who thinks they can conflate the emotion of love with a symbolic AK-47.


If ya don't want to talk to assholes then you certainly don't want to talk to yourself

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 6:05:04 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

My time is worth far too much ,to me,to waste talking to any of those assholes......or their infantile audiences



Bad enough I waste my time taking to an idiot who thinks they can conflate the emotion of love with a symbolic AK-47.


If ya don't want to talk to assholes then you certainly don't want to talk to yourself

A wonderful example of school yard taunting,do you have anything on this cop or the late Mr.Scott ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 6:35:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

My time is worth far too much ,to me,to waste talking to any of those assholes......or their infantile audiences



Bad enough I waste my time taking to an idiot who thinks they can conflate the emotion of love with a symbolic AK-47.


If ya don't want to talk to assholes then you certainly don't want to talk to yourself

A wonderful example of school yard taunting,do you have anything on this cop or the late Mr.Scott ?

Since everyone agreed at the outset that even if Scott had an outstanding child support warrant and even if the ran the cop screwed up there isn't really much to add to that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 6:40:05 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		So how the hell did we get to 14 pages

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 6:44:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So how the hell did we get to 14 pages

Several pages on birth control/abortion.
A few trying to claim that this guy was a normal cop murdering people like cops always do.
Lots of repeating the same things.
And a couple of pages of snark.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up - 4/12/2015 6:56:00 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

The Washington Post published this yesterday. I haven't had the energy/focus to delve into it, but thought others might be interested.

Here are the lede and a link.

Thousands dead, few prosecuted

Among the thousands of fatal shootings at the hands of police since 2005, only 54 officers have been charged, a Post analysis found. Most were cleared or acquitted in the cases that have been resolved.

On a rainy night five years ago, Officer Coleman “Duke” Brackney set off in pursuit of a suspected drunk driver, chasing his black Mazda Miata down rural Arkansas roads at speeds of nearly 100 miles per hour. When the sports car finally came to rest in a ditch, Brackney opened fire at the rear window and repeatedly struck the driver, 41-year-old James Ahern, in the back. The gunshots killed Ahern.

Prosecutors charged Brackney with felony manslaughter. But he eventually entered a plea to a lesser charge and could ultimately be left with no criminal record.

Now, he serves as the police chief in a small community 20 miles from the scene of the shooting.

Brackney is among 54 officers charged over the past decade for fatally shooting someone while on duty, according to an analysis by The Washington Post and researchers at Bowling Green State University. This analysis, based on a wide range of public records and interviews with law enforcement, judicial and other legal experts, sought to identify for the first time every officer who faced charges­ for such shootings since 2005. These represent a small fraction of the thousands of fatal police shootings that have occurred across the country in that time.

In an overwhelming majority of the cases where an officer was charged, the person killed was unarmed. But it usually took more than that.

When prosecutors pressed charges, The Post analysis found, there were typically other factors that made the case exceptional, including: a victim shot in the back, a video recording of the incident, incriminating testimony from other officers or allegations of a coverup.

<sidebar>
How the analysis was done: The 54 criminal prosecutions were identified by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip M. Stinson and The Washington Post. Cases were culled from news reports, grand jury announcements and news releases from prosecutors. For individual cases, reporters obtained and reviewed thousands of pages of court records, police reports, grand jury indictments, witness testimony and video recordings. Dozens of prosecutors and defense attorneys in the cases were interviewed, along with legal experts, officers who were prosecuted and surviving relatives of the shooting victims.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/04/11/thousands-dead-few-prosecuted/?hpid=z4

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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