RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up

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tj444 -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:04:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u It's a failed response to an alarmingly staggering amount of men who fail to support their own children. Not that the child/children's lives are enriched by having daddy in jail,but.......what are you going to do ? How do you compel these deadbeat dads to meet their legal obligations ? I dont know this guys situation but come on, given the recession/depression you cant expect all daddies to have jobs or the ability to pay child support.. If the dad has the ability to pay but refuses then thats certainly a different matter.. but i wouldnt paint all of them with the same brush.. and i have heard of men that do try to pay but the system screws things up somehow or they arent the fathers and so they end up with warrants, etc that they dont deserve.. without knowing this man's situation I wont label him as a deadbeat dad.. He is dead and cant tell his side of that.. https://reason.com/archives/2004/02/01/injustice-by-default

kdsub -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:08:14 PM)
I was repeating what the witness said... The one who took the video... I will try to post the link.. HERE it is. “Before I started recording, they were down on the floor,” Santana told “NBC Nightly News” on Wednesday. “I remember the police [officer] had control of the situation. He had control of Scott. And Scott was trying just to get away from the Taser.” But Scott “never used the Taser against the cop,” he said." I am assuming when he says on the floor he means on the ground. Butch

slvemike4u -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:08:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u It's a failed response to an alarmingly staggering amount of men who fail to support their own children. Not that the child/children's lives are enriched by having daddy in jail,but.......what are you going to do ? How do you compel these deadbeat dads to meet their legal obligations ? I dont know this guys situation but come on, given the recession/depression you cant expect all daddies to have jobs or the ability to pay child support.. If the dad has the ability to pay but refuses then thats certainly a different matter.. but i wouldnt paint all of them with the same brush.. and i have heard of men that do try to pay but the system screws things up somehow or they arent the fathers and so they end up with warrants, etc that they dont deserve.. without knowing this man's situation I wont label him as a deadbeat dad.. He is dead and cant tell his side of that.. https://reason.com/archives/2004/02/01/injustice-by-default It's not my response to the problem...it's a societal thing. I never made the decision Certainly wasn't my worry,as long as my wifes checks arrived on time(and they always did) I had no issues...lol

tj444 -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:26:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u It's not my response to the problem...it's a societal thing. I never made the decision Certainly wasn't my worry,as long as my wifes checks arrived on time(and they always did) I had no issues...lol yeah, but i have heard of screw ups in the system due to the system (where the men did pay but for some reason the money got sent elsewhere or whatever), and lives ruined cuz the screw ups dont get fixed.. that article shows just how easy it is to get the deadbeat dad title without even being a dad.. What would you have done if you lost your job and did everything you could but didnt have the money to pay it? I am just not willing to condemn this guy on that at this point..

slvemike4u -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:29:34 PM)
I'm not willing to condemn the guy at all. In any case. All I was doing was filling in the blanks on what happened here and than responding to Aylee's question about locking up men for failure to meet their child support obligations

tj444 -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:29:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I was repeating what the witness said... The one who took the video... I will try to post the link.. HERE it is. “Before I started recording, they were down on the floor,” Santana told “NBC Nightly News” on Wednesday. “I remember the police [officer] had control of the situation. He had control of Scott. And Scott was trying just to get away from the Taser.” But Scott “never used the Taser against the cop,” he said." I am assuming when he says on the floor he means on the ground. Butch seems that this cop has tazed before without cause.. Imo that is why the cop was fired fast and charged, this previous incident shows a pattern of behaviour.. http://nypost.com/2015/04/09/cop-who-shot-black-man-had-prior-excessive-force-complaint-report/

kdsub -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:44:33 PM)
Yep... but the tasing really has nothing to do with why he is in trouble. When he pulled the guy over he was polite and when he went back to his police car to run his licence the guy opened his door and took off running... I would say the cop had no choice but the run after him and try to subdue him... that would mean the taser... Where he went wrong is as we have been telling you... shooting the guy.... BUT i'm sure in hindsight his superiors had wished they had paid more attention to his aggressive behavior in the past. Butch

BamaD -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 8:46:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub What if he was trying to arrest him because of outstanding warrants, which he had, and resisted arrest? He is not in trouble because he pulled him over... he is not in trouble because he tried to tase him when he resisted arrest... He is in trouble because he shot an unarmed man retreating from him... and unless I missed it I did not hear on the video him demanding he stop before he shot... you just cannot do that.. it is in my way of thinking murder. Lack of training or because he resisted is not an excuse in my book for deadly force when there was no threat to the officer or others if he got away. Butch As i said, i was going by what you posted.. you ask what if? i dont care about "what ifs", i am concerned about what the cop was actually doing, what the guy was actually doing.. was the cop trying to arrest the guy and did the guy resist arrest??? cuz that is not what you said the guy was doing, you said he was arguing with the cop so the cop pulled out his taser.. you said the guy then fought with the cop over the taser.. well if the cop was going to taz him without cause (& simply arguing isnt "cause" imo) then the guy was just defending himself from a rabid power-mad cop.. which also explains why he ran or tried to given his "ungainly run" (as a poster described it).. While some people think being tazed is not harmful, tasers have killed people before so being tazed is being seriously attacked, imo.. that is the point where deadly force started, imo.. What do you do if you are trying to arrest someone and they refuse to be arrested, waiting for backup just means that you are going to use more force. The guy tried to take the taser, not the same as the cop trying to taser him, then he ran. Still no justification for shooting him, the warrant was only for late child support. BTW when a cop shoots someone aren't you part of the chorus saying the cop should have used something non-lethal like a taser? None of this means that I am defending the cop, I see no justification for this shooting. that is not what kbsub said happened and as i said i am not going to watch the video.. he said the guy was arguing and so the cop pulled out his taser.. he didnt say the cop tried to arrest him and the guy resisted arrest.. If the guy was just arguing with him that is not cause to taz him.. eta- found this article on the rabid power-mad cop.. he has done this before.. to the wrong man no less.. "“He said he wanted to come in, but didn’t say why,” said Givens, now 33. “He never said who he was looking for.” Then, without warning, Slager pushed in the door, he said. “‘Come outside or I’ll tase you,'” he recalled the officer saying as he burst in. “I didn’t want that to happen to me, so I raised my arms over my head, and when I did, he tased me in my stomach anyway.” He said the pain from the stun gun was so intense that he dropped to the floor and began calling for his mother, who was also in the home. At that point, he said another police officer came into the house and they dragged him outside and threw him to the ground. He was handcuffed and put in the back of a squad car." "Moments later, she saw the police officers drag Givens out of the house and throw him in the dirt. Brown said she kept yelling to the officers they had the wrong man, but they wouldn’t listen. Though Givens was offering no resistance, she said she saw Slager use the stun gun on him again. “He was screaming, in pain,” she said. “He said, ‘You tased me. You tased me. Why?’ It was awful. Terrible. I asked the officer why he tased him and he told me to get back.”" http://nypost.com/2015/04/09/cop-who-shot-black-man-had-prior-excessive-force-complaint-report/ Relax I will point out again that I don't think the cop was justified. You don't have to convince me the cop was wrong I have said I believe he is several times.

tj444 -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 9:00:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yep... but the tasing really has nothing to do with why he is in trouble. When he pulled the guy over he was polite and when he went back to his police car to run his licence the guy opened his door and took off running... I would say the cop had no choice but the run after him and try to subdue him... that would mean the taser... Where he went wrong is as we have been telling you... shooting the guy.... BUT i'm sure in hindsight his superiors had wished they had paid more attention to his aggressive behavior in the past. Butch well,.. is this the cop's story or is there anything else to back this version of events? camera recording from the cop car? if not, obviously i wouldnt take the cop's word for anything on its own..

BamaD -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 9:05:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yep... but the tasing really has nothing to do with why he is in trouble. When he pulled the guy over he was polite and when he went back to his police car to run his licence the guy opened his door and took off running... I would say the cop had no choice but the run after him and try to subdue him... that would mean the taser... Where he went wrong is as we have been telling you... shooting the guy.... BUT i'm sure in hindsight his superiors had wished they had paid more attention to his aggressive behavior in the past. Butch well,.. is this the cop's story or is there anything else to back this version of events? camera recording from the cop car? if not, obviously i wouldnt take the cop's word for anything on its own.. Isn't it pretty much in line with what the witness said?

kdsub -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 9:15:58 PM)
No tj... unless I say it is opinion what I say is backed by facts... at least as I know them. Check HERE and see if what I said pretty well matches the facts. Butch

tj444 -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 10:05:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No tj... unless I say it is opinion what I say is backed by facts... at least as I know them. Check HERE and see if what I said pretty well matches the facts. Butch there was 2 blocks between the 2 camera recordings where anything could have happened but if the cop car camera recorded that then that is what happened in those first moments.. its strange tho, the guy had been jailed for support payments a couple of times before so why did he run this time? there has to be a reason.. but i guess we wont know why now..

Aylee -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/9/2015 10:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u It's a failed response to an alarmingly staggering amount of men who fail to support their own children. Not that the child/children's lives are enriched by having daddy in jail,but.......what are you going to do ? How do you compel these deadbeat dads to meet their legal obligations ? I keep trying to point out that whenever we make a law we are saying that this is something important enough to be enforced with deadly force. (Yes, in this case it sounds like the cop should not have been using deadly force, but that is really beside the point.) Is failure to pay child support worth the death penalty? Is this a good law? A solution? Nothing magical. Culturally and societally we need to get back to the importance of marriage in regards to having and raising children. We need to keep families intact as much as possible. Out of wedlock births should not be shrugged off as no big deal. We need to stop demeaning men and the importance that they play in children's lives. They need to stop being an option. How to do this? I am not quite sure.

hot4bondage -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 6:47:26 AM)
Many pro-lifers also stigmatize birth control, inadvertently promoting unwanted pregnancies. It's far more difficult to keep a family intact if they never intended to be a family in the first place.

kdsub -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 7:23:56 AM)
Yes tj that is the same question I was asking when I started this line of thought.... Why run... Then when the cop catches you why resist...The fact that he did contributed to his death but did not justify it. Butch

Sanity -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 7:38:39 AM)
FR Eleven deputies in California savagely tazed, kicked and beat a handcuffed white guy who was face down and not resisting, and the family still has not been able to visit the man as of yet http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html I saw one boot go straight into his balls, and nightsticks beating his head... But the guy is white, so we can just forget about the whole thing.

Lucylastic -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 7:47:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity FR Eleven deputies in California savagely tazed, kicked and beat a handcuffed white guy who was face down and not resisting, and the family still has not been able to visit the man as of yet http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html I saw one boot go straight into his balls, and nightsticks beating his head... But the guy is white, so we can just forget about the whole thing. Once again you are making dumbass assumptions your ass cant cash. No, its not ok for police brutality, period fucking stupid comment but hey, make shit up all you like. troll on dood

Sanity -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 7:54:53 AM)
I am sure there will be nationwide protests, and Al Sharpton will be on the scene forthwith to raise some cash off of it... Barack Obama will speak about it in a solemn voice from the Bully Pulpit, and there will be demonstrations on the House floor

bounty44 -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 7:58:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage Many pro-lifers also stigmatize birth control, inadvertently promoting unwanted pregnancies. It's far more difficult to keep a family intact if they never intended to be a family in the first place. I would not go so far as to say "many", the "wrongness" of artificial birth control in the context of marriage is something that is taught in the catholic church, but is not wholly (if barely) practiced by the laity.

thishereboi -> RE: It Looks Like This Police Officer Fucked Up (4/10/2015 8:08:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I am sure there will be nationwide protests, and Al Sharpton will be on the scene forthwith to raise some cash off of it... Barack Obama will speak about it in a solemn voice from the Bully Pulpit, and there will be demonstrations on the House floor Sure they will, right after they demand to know why Devon was shot.

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