quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay ,as I said if I was wrong I apologize....I mixed up bounty for you.



Now you go right ahead and apologize for accusing me of bringing your kids into the topic


Let's see you match me apology for apology....cause you were just as wrong as I was

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

...we need more parents beating more children(as one poster suggested)....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Shirley, all of the rioters werent raised by wolves, were they?

More seriously, peer pressure and pack mentality can be very powerful influences on teen and young adult behavior, competing very strongly against even some of the best parenting

More than that though, there are leaders in their community telling them, preaching to them, that violent rioting is the answer

Or, two wrongs make a right. That message keeps getting reinforced on every level stronger and louder than any other message, which explains that which so bewildered the OP in the other Baltimore thread

Goes all the way up to the current president and Eric Holder, too

Dont know if it will change much with the new AG, but we shall see

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Oh boy.....so many conflicting thoughts on that.



It's a little bit hard for me to join in the love fest for this mother....almost as hard as finding anything negative to say about her.


I will say though that the idea that we need more parents beating more children(as one poster suggested)....that's a bridge too far for me,way too far

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Oh boy.....so many conflicting thoughts on that.



It's a little bit hard for me to join in the love fest for this mother....almost as hard as finding anything negative to say about her.


I will say though that the idea that we need more parents beating more children(as one poster suggested)....that's a bridge too far for me,way too far

ok, I didnt watch the vid, aint gonna watch the vid.. so no idea how bad a beatdown it was.. however, I think the (now national) embarassment was the true "wounding" here, as far as being a typical a (both rioting and non-rioting) teenager goes..

Protesting is one thing (its a form of free speech, isnt it?) but rioting is something entirely different..

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Oh boy.....so many conflicting thoughts on that.



It's a little bit hard for me to join in the love fest for this mother....almost as hard as finding anything negative to say about her.


I will say though that the idea that we need more parents beating more children(as one poster suggested)....that's a bridge too far for me,way too far

ok, I didnt watch the vid, aint gonna watch the vid.. so no idea how bad a beatdown it was.. however, I think the (now national) embarassment was the true "wounding" here, as far as being a typical a (both rioting and non-rioting) teenager goes..

Protesting is one thing (its a form of free speech, isnt it?) but rioting is something entirely different..

She boxed his head a few times. Every time he tried to go back and join the riot. She didn't lay a hand on him otherwise. Firm but I would be shocked to find out he had a single bruise. And she kept him out of committing a crime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay ,as I said if I was wrong I apologize....I mixed up bounty for you.



Now you go right ahead and apologize for accusing me of bringing your kids into the topic


Let's see you match me apology for apology....cause you were just as wrong as I was

quote:

I disagree....if you raise them right they aren't part of a mob in the first place.


And the minute they see that the "crowd" protesting (rightly so) is turning into a mob......they beat a hasty retreat.

quote:

At least that's what I hope my son would have done in a similar situation.Being that I can't prove something that never came up the best I can do is hope and assume.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I wondered if I wasn't opening a can of worms with this but since I had been kinda absent for a few weeks I wanted to come back with a bang. Sigh. I should know better than to feed my drama demon when it rears its head.

Since the Baltimore riots are a related issue to this thread I would like to state that I certainly do not condone the violence and looting - but I will not use it as an excuse to dismiss the anger of the Black Community, or the reasons behind that anger - which are justified.

I also want to reiterate that I do not condone child abuse and that includes any form of physical punishment that involves beating with an implement or fists. I accept the fact that sometimes - sometimes - you need to give a child a slap or two in order to get their full attention as to the seriousness of the matter. That is what I see happening in this video. She doesn't hit him all that hard and he is protected by his clothing. She spends more time yelling and trying to get him to stop walking away from her than hitting him. He mostly looks embarrassed. Hence my title.

Now to the points that I want to address:

quote:

I disagree....if you raise them right they aren't part of a mob in the first place.


And the minute they see that the "crowd" protesting (rightly so) is turning into a mob......they beat a hasty retreat.

Uhm . . .

quote:

At least that's what I hope my son would have done in a similar situation.Being that I can't prove something that never came up the best I can do is hope and assume.

Okay, since you admit that it is a hypothetical . . .

I think it behooves people to remember that, outside of what we see on the video, we know next to nothing about these people's lives.

I think it also behooves us to remember that it is much more difficult for young people to resist peer pressure and group think than us older farts who've had time to develop an "I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me anymore" attitude.

Lastly, I think it behooves those of us who are white to remember that we live in a very different world than black people do. We find it hard to fathom that we would join with such anger but we have that privilege. It is not us who are routinely followed around the department store by security. It is not us who are routinely denied loans we are more than qualified for. It is not us who are routinely told that the house has already been rented because we're not wanted in the neighborhood. It is not us who are routinely being shot down choked and beaten by police.

Racism is alive and well and does real harm to real people - and its victims have a right to be angry.

quote:

Black or white has no part of my statement.

quote:

I raised my son by winning his respect w/o resorting to whacking him upside his head.

quote:

My point was that in the hypothetical if I told my son to walk away with me,out of that situation I would have never had the need to whack him.

quote:

That assertion stands,that's my reality.Now anyone going back to my first post will notice that even given my stance about hitting a child I still could not bring myself to criticize this mother in this situation.

Once again I will assert that I stand by my first post

quote:

I think though we're seeing the black community most vocal, this isn't at all a racial issue.

Police brutality is an issue in many communities, with victims of all races.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

You're embarrassing me in front of the other rioters!

Okay, I normally do not approve of parents beating their kids but under the circumstances - well, sometimes Mom just has to take charge. She may well have saved his life. Given how easily a mob mentality can lead to a lowering of inhibitions against violence - she may have saved someone else from him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or .and this seems like a better idea(and one not dripping with sarcasm) she could have done a better job raising him in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Based upon context, I'm going to presume your response was meant for me and not Bam Bam.

quote:

Black or white has no part of my statement.

And that is your privilege. Your white privilege. You, and I, and every other white person in the USA don't live in a society in which we are constantly devalued. We don't live in a society in which our skin color constantly means it is less likely that we will get a job or a loan or more likely that we will be arrested, more likely we will be convicted and more likely we will be given a harsher sentence - assuming we survive our encounter with the police in the first place.

It is at this point in the argument that some white person will come along and point out that their life has been less than stellar, that there were plenty of times that it sucked. These people miss the point. White privilege does NOT mean you get a suck free life if you are white. It means you get certain advantages that makes it easier to get through life. One of those advantages is that we can walk away from from this debate. We can pontificate about the issues a while, maybe even join a protest or two but, when we want to, we can walk away from the issues. Black Americans cannot. It is part of their daily existence.

quote:

I raised my son by winning his respect w/o resorting to whacking him upside his head.

I never said otherwise.

quote:

My point was that in the hypothetical if I told my son to walk away with me,out of that situation I would have never had the need to whack him.

I wasn't addressing your reasoning skills where they concern your son but the ability of people (including your son) to resist the draw of mass emotion. We all like to think that we are intellectually sophisticated enough to rise above the crowd but, truth be told, it is a very difficult thing to do. You seemed to acknowledge that ("At least that's what I hope my son would . . . ") and I was merely acknowledging your acknowledgement.

quote:

That assertion stands,that's my reality.Now anyone going back to my first post will notice that even given my stance about hitting a child I still could not bring myself to criticize this mother in this situation.

Once again I will assert that I stand by my first post

I wasn't specifically accusing you of anything. I chose nouns like "people" and pronouns like "us" precisely because I was speaking in generalities. If that didn't come across sufficiently I apologize (fuck, what is it with this thread?).

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRage

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or .and this seems like a better idea(and one not dripping with sarcasm) she could have done a better job raising him in the first place.

This is a somewhat myopic view on parenting. One can raise their kids as well as it can be done, and the adolescent can still choose to go out and be a shit head. This is especially true if his environment (school, neighborhood) has peers who engage in this sort of troublemaking. Teens make dumb decisions; their prefrontal cortex (responsible for things like decision making and weighing consequences) won't be done developing for several more years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRage

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or .and this seems like a better idea(and one not dripping with sarcasm) she could have done a better job raising him in the first place.

This is a somewhat myopic view on parenting. One can raise their kids as well as it can be done, and the adolescent can still choose to go out and be a shit head. This is especially true if his environment (school, neighborhood) has peers who engage in this sort of troublemaking. Teens make dumb decisions; their prefrontal cortex (responsible for things like decision making and weighing consequences) won't be done developing for several more years.

Well that's not my experience now is it.

Part of what I considered my job,as a parent,was making sure my son's environment was safe and conducive to his success .

If that is "myopic" than so be it.When I speak of parenting I have only two first hand examples to go by.

The horror story that was my own.....and the one I chose ,and worked for,with my son.

I'm really not understanding the pushback I'm getting here,due to my own unbringing I am strongly against striking a child in any way shape or form.....given all of that I still said,in my first post,that I was unable to fault this mother in any way at all....due to the consequences of the situation.

I than went on in a follow up post( in response to what I saw as a circle jerk celebrating her hitting her son "upside the head" ) and asserted that there just might be a better alternative than one in which one finds themselves needing to hit a child upside their head....and I'm getting flak over that statement ?

I am a child of abuse,no one,nowhere will ever convince me that striking a child is a good idea....I was hit far too often for that to resonate .

With all that said I never criticized this mother in this instance.....I just asserted there is indeed a better way.Maybe that better way wasn't open to her,maybe she was overwhelmed by being a single parent unable to move her son to a better environment....all that said though simply drives home my point,given better circumstances there is a better way ;-)

You folks disagree with that all you want,my son is all the example I need to show me I was right in my view for my chold.

Myopic,maybe,but it worked for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRage

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Or .and this seems like a better idea(and one not dripping with sarcasm) she could have done a better job raising him in the first place.

This is a somewhat myopic view on parenting. One can raise their kids as well as it can be done, and the adolescent can still choose to go out and be a shit head. This is especially true if his environment (school, neighborhood) has peers who engage in this sort of troublemaking. Teens make dumb decisions; their prefrontal cortex (responsible for things like decision making and weighing consequences) won't be done developing for several more years.