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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 7:44:08 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is appears that Zionists and their pathetic ever dwindling bunch of apologists are reduced to arguing that one massacre justifies another, that one war crime justifies another, that the mass bombing that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in WWII justifies the mass bombing of Gaza that killed hundreds of civilians. No massacre of civilians justifies another massacre of civilians. One could be forgiven for thinking that this is IS talking, not supporters of a State that claims to be civilised

What a state of total moral bankruptcy those supporters occupy. Though it's hardly surprising that apologists for a racist State that practices ethnic cleansing and apartheid are reduced to moral bankruptcy. What morality could justify ethnic cleansing, apartheid and the slaughter of civilians?

Read post 72. Though it turned out you were responsible and not ps.

You seem to be suggesting that because the IDF has launched an inquiry, any indiscriminate firing on civilians can only be because of individual aberration and not official IDF policy. Obviously you have never considered things like whitewashes, scapegoating, sacrifical lambs, token investigation/prosecution to stave off UN inquiries, etc as potential reasons for the IDF investigating itself. However there's no need to consider your suggestion at all.

We know that this is official IDF policy because the IDF told us it was official IDF policy - so it's straight from the horse's mouth, there couldn't be a more authoritative source. The Dahiya doctrine makes it explicitly clear that massive destruction of civilian areas, along with high levels of civilian casualties/fatalities are an intrinsic part of the IDF's plans. According to the IDF this doctrine has been approved for implementation and it ought to be obvious to any one who witnessed the attacks on Gaza last year and in 2008 ('Castlead') that the doctrine was implemented fully.

So the IDF promised us massive destruction would happen and that civilian areas would be regarded as combat zones with attendant massive levels of civilian casualties and fatalities, it happened (all of it confirmed by serving IDF soldiers in the Breaking the Silence report) and you want us to believe that it can only be because of individual aberration???? Sorry we are not all as gullible as you appear to be. However, your claim is not a total write off - it is another example of the level of self delusion necessary to maintain one-eyed support for Israel.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/20/2015 7:55:10 AM >


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 8:15:01 AM   
Sanity


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Your wiki page is heavily edited (by you perhaps) and is useless as anything other than propaganda

From a prior edit:

quote:

The '''Dahiya doctrine''' is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general [[Gadi Eizenkot]] that pertains to [[asymmetric warfare]] in an urban setting, in which the army targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of establishing deterrence against militant's use of that infrastructure to launch rockets at Israel. The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the [[Israel Defense Forces]] (IDF) during the [[2006 Lebanon War,]] after Israeli jets dropped leaflets warning residents to evacuate


Same old, same old. Islamists fire at Israel, and when Israel fires back Islamist apologists scream "war crimes"

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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 9:03:01 AM   
kdsub


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What a crazy situation… the Palestinians demand recognition as a state…yet there is no central government to recognize. On top of this the Palestinian leader Abbas refuses to recognize the Israeli desire to be a “ Jewish State” . There are reasons of course… Abbas is rightfully worried about how Palestinian citizens of a Jewish state will be treated and if they will have the same rights as Jews. But… should he have the right to demand the type of state Israel wants to be…anymore than Israel has the right to demand the type of state Palestine decides to be?

I can understand the Vatican’s position considering it’s religious investment in Palestine but I don’t see the recognition making any difference at all. In fact it will make no difference who or how many recognize Palestine. Until they understand the only hope for peace is to accept each other as the states they want to be….WITHOUT outside intervention and this means the UN…the US…and any and all Muslim and or Arab nations. Only when peace is more desirable then revenge and hate will this happen.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/20/2015 9:31:18 AM >


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 9:08:09 AM   
tweakabelle


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Awwww so poor Sanity doesn't like the wiki account of the IDF's Dahiya doctrine. Here's another one from the Irish Times:

"The scale and nature of the Israeli assault on Gaza – destroying every piece of basic infrastructure available and predictably inflicting civilian deaths on a grand scale – has resulted not from extreme belligerence towards Palestinians but from a settled strategy Israeli leaders hope will soon be adopted (insofar as it has not been adopted already) by western powers in prosecution of the “war on terror”. On this reading, the repeated massacres cannot be put down to soldiers and air crews following irresponsible orders (or being the worst shots in the world). The devastation is coldly deliberate.

The assault is an expression of the Dahiya doctrine. The title refers to the Dahiya neighbourhood of Beirut, devastated in August 2006 in retaliation for the failure of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) to defeat Hizbullah in clashes in southern Lebanon during which large numbers of civilians were either directly killed by bombs or crushed as they huddled in the rubble of their homes.

In October 2006 the head of Israel’s northern command, Maj Gen Udi Adam, resigned, taking responsibility for the failure. He was replaced by Gadi Eizenkot, previously military secretary to the office of the prime minister, subsequently deputy chief of the general staff. What was needed was more ruthlessness, Eizenkot declared. Time to take the gloves off. “What happened in the Dahiya district will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on . . . We will apply disproportionate force and cause great damage and destruction. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases.”

[...]The doctrine provides a theoretical basis, retrospectively and in the present, for the Israeli practice of deploying massive force and showing reckless disregard for civilian life in response to attacks which it may itself have provoked or in efforts to secure the release of kidnapped citizens or captured soldiers. In this context, all inhabitants of Gaza and indeed the entity itself can be – and have been – declared legitimate targets.

Thus, a threat to the lives of Israelis, civilian or military, from Hamas rockets – albeit fired in response to Israel’s abandonment of a non-aggression pact Hamas had faithfully maintained for more than a year – is enough to justify all-out war. To say this is not to defend Hamas’s use of a tactic that makes civilian casualties – to put it no higher – fairly likely

[...]The actions were intended to defend Israeli citizens from Hamas attacks: the way to stop the killing of Palestinian children, then, was for Hamas to desist. Or to put it another way – surrender or we’ll keep on killing your kids. The sentiment was exactly in line with Eizenkot’s precepts
.
"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/israel-s-assault-on-gaza-is-an-expression-of-the-dahiya-doctrine-1.1902934

It's a bit difficult to find anything from a neutral source that is sympathetic to the Dahiya doctrine. Hardly surprising really, what neutral source is going to approve the devastation and slaughter that the IDF's Dahiya doctrine specifically calls for, plans for, and that the IDF prosecutes faithfully?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/20/2015 9:12:54 AM >


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 9:20:44 AM   
Sanity


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From your source - "Opinion: The doctrine provides a basis for deploying massive force and showing reckless disregard for civilian life"

Opinion...

Long story short, your sources are the very best when it comes to editing out relevant facts such as the sites targeted by the Israelis were used to launch rockets at innocent civilians, pamphlets were dropped prior to the Israeli strikes warning civilians to evacuate the area, and that terrorists forced the Dahiya doctrine upon Israel by using civilians and residential locations as human shields from which to launch their rocket attacks.

Attacks that could foreseeably include dirty warheads, nuclear warheads, etc. It isnt a game, except to the terrorists and their supporters







< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/20/2015 9:39:46 AM >


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 11:18:30 AM   
BamaD


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However there's no need to consider your suggestion at all.

Dear Tweak

You should just put this on auto print as it seems to be your stance on all subjects.

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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 4:28:34 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your wiki page is heavily edited (by you perhaps) and is useless as anything other than propaganda

From a prior edit:

quote:

The '''Dahiya doctrine''' is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general [[Gadi Eizenkot]] that pertains to [[asymmetric warfare]] in an urban setting, in which the army targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of establishing deterrence against militant's use of that infrastructure to launch rockets at Israel. The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the [[Israel Defense Forces]] (IDF) during the [[2006 Lebanon War,]] after Israeli jets dropped leaflets warning residents to evacuate


Same old, same old. Islamists fire at Israel, and when Israel fires back Islamist apologists scream "war crimes"


Good spot....Wiki let Tweaks edit the page, just to prove you are a tosser............

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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 5:00:48 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

However there's no need to consider your suggestion at all.

Dear Tweak

You should just put this on auto print as it seems to be your stance on all subjects.



To me it seems that one side is utterly locked into the view that Israel is made up of 'upstanding citizens who are sort of like ourselves', whereas Palestine is full of 'barbarians, semihumans, animals, terrorists, madmen'.

Or similar. It doesn't matter what the Israelis do to the Palestinians, or vice versa: the former are 'people of our sort', the latter are just not not 'people' in the same sense that *we* are.

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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 8:43:18 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Good spot....Wiki let Tweaks edit the page, just to prove you are a tosser............



Here is something you apparently dont know, Wiki lets anyone edit their pages

I proved that someone edited out certain facts that are inconvenient to the Islamist propaganda effort.


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/20/2015 9:09:15 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

However there's no need to consider your suggestion at all.

Dear Tweak

You should just put this on auto print as it seems to be your stance on all subjects.



To me it seems that one side is utterly locked into the view that Israel is made up of 'upstanding citizens who are sort of like ourselves', whereas Palestine is full of 'barbarians, semihumans, animals, terrorists, madmen'.

Or similar. It doesn't matter what the Israelis do to the Palestinians, or vice versa: the former are 'people of our sort', the latter are just not not 'people' in the same sense that *we* are.

You are entitled to your opinion.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 6:55:31 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your wiki page is heavily edited (by you perhaps) and is useless as anything other than propaganda

From a prior edit:

quote:

The '''Dahiya doctrine''' is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general [[Gadi Eizenkot]] that pertains to [[asymmetric warfare]] in an urban setting, in which the army targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of establishing deterrence against militant's use of that infrastructure to launch rockets at Israel. The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the [[Israel Defense Forces]] (IDF) during the [[2006 Lebanon War,]] after Israeli jets dropped leaflets warning residents to evacuate



Good spot....Wiki let Tweaks edit the page, just to prove you are a tosser............


quote:

Sanity
I proved that someone edited out certain facts that are inconvenient to the Islamist propaganda effort.

What can I say? It’s a fair cop, guv!

Jimmy Wales and I had long recognised that Sanity presented a serious possibly insurmountable obstacle to our plans for world domination, implementing Agenda 21 and wealth redistribution. We knew that something had to be done to neutralise the threat Sanity posed. But how does one neutralise an obstacle as formidable, as implacable as Sanity?

We thought long and hard before we came up with this plan. We held countless strategy meetings, we even consulted the Illuminati (they were next to useless, grossly over-rated if you ask me) as we tried to develop a plan to stop Sanity. In the end the Dahiya strategy was the best we could come up with. We really liked it, thought it might just do the trick for us. In fact, we were so sure it was going to work that we even booked Sanity’s place at the FEMA re-education camp.

Of course, you know the rest - Sanity twigged our plan straight away, he even had a copy of the original Dahiya post up his sleeve. He must have known what we were up to all along - the plan was doomed from the get go! Subtlety is definitely not the way to go with Sanity. Looking back on it, I should have known better than to tangle with an intellect the size of Sanity’s. I have always felt more comfortable on macro issues, the microscopic ones never really interested me but Wales talked me into it. (he can be very persuasive at times)

Wales scarpered at the first sign of trouble and has holed himself up incommunicado at one of his Caribbean island tax free havens, leaving me to face the music all on my ownnio! Typical Man! Woe woe woe is me .......


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/21/2015 7:07:27 AM >


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 7:05:25 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 7:58:40 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your wiki page is heavily edited (by you perhaps) and is useless as anything other than propaganda

From a prior edit:

quote:

The '''Dahiya doctrine''' is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general [[Gadi Eizenkot]] that pertains to [[asymmetric warfare]] in an urban setting, in which the army targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of establishing deterrence against militant's use of that infrastructure to launch rockets at Israel. The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the [[Israel Defense Forces]] (IDF) during the [[2006 Lebanon War,]] after Israeli jets dropped leaflets warning residents to evacuate



Good spot....Wiki let Tweaks edit the page, just to prove you are a tosser............


quote:

Sanity
I proved that someone edited out certain facts that are inconvenient to the Islamist propaganda effort.

What can I say? It’s a fair cop, guv!

Jimmy Wales and I had long recognised that Sanity presented a serious possibly insurmountable obstacle to our plans for world domination, implementing Agenda 21 and wealth redistribution. We knew that something had to be done to neutralise the threat Sanity posed. But how does one neutralise an obstacle as formidable, as implacable as Sanity?

We thought long and hard before we came up with this plan. We held countless strategy meetings, we even consulted the Illuminati (they were next to useless, grossly over-rated if you ask me) as we tried to develop a plan to stop Sanity. In the end the Dahiya strategy was the best we could come up with. We really liked it, thought it might just do the trick for us. In fact, we were so sure it was going to work that we even booked Sanity’s place at the FEMA re-education camp.

Of course, you know the rest - Sanity twigged our plan straight away, he even had a copy of the original Dahiya post up his sleeve. He must have known what we were up to all along - the plan was doomed from the get go! Subtlety is definitely not the way to go with Sanity. Looking back on it, I should have known better than to tangle with an intellect the size of Sanity’s. I have always felt more comfortable on macro issues, the microscopic ones never really interested me but Wales talked me into it. (he can be very persuasive at times)

Wales scarpered at the first sign of trouble and has holed himself up incommunicado at one of his Caribbean island tax free havens, leaving me to face the music all on my ownnio! Typical Man! Woe woe woe is me .......



First copy&paste propaganda, now copy&paste Alinsky

As a demonstration of your superior intellect, no less...



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RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 12:19:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

However there's no need to consider your suggestion at all.

Dear Tweak

You should just put this on auto print as it seems to be your stance on all subjects.



To me it seems that one side is utterly locked into the view that Israel is made up of 'upstanding citizens who are sort of like ourselves', whereas Palestine is full of 'barbarians, semihumans, animals, terrorists, madmen'.

Or similar. It doesn't matter what the Israelis do to the Palestinians, or vice versa: the former are 'people of our sort', the latter are just not not 'people' in the same sense that *we* are.

No, like many you miss the demarcation. Most of the Palestinians, since the 47 war, have been victims. They were victimized by the Arab governments who told them just to go to the camps because they would get rid of Israel in just a few months. They are victimized because people like the PLO and Hamas have always hidden among them. They are victimized because when Israel retaliates for attacks on Israel they always get caught in the middle. Hamas, Isis and the like yes they are monsters. While the Israelis are by no means perfect, they have been fighting for their lives for their entire lives. By this I mean that their enemies say they will settle for nothing less than their eradication.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 12:32:09 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is appears that Zionists and their pathetic ever dwindling bunch of apologists are reduced to arguing that one massacre justifies another, that one war crime justifies another,


Ah, so you do admit that the massacres started with the Palistians. Good. Then your racist hate for the other side is why you choose the side you do.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 1:00:44 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

To me it seems that one side is utterly locked into the view that Israel is made up of 'upstanding citizens who are sort of like ourselves', whereas Palestine is full of 'barbarians, semihumans, animals, terrorists, madmen'.

Or similar. It doesn't matter what the Israelis do to the Palestinians, or vice versa: the former are 'people of our sort', the latter are just not not 'people' in the same sense that *we* are.

No, like many you miss the demarcation. Most of the Palestinians, since the 47 war, have been victims. They were victimized by the Arab governments who told them just to go to the camps because they would get rid of Israel in just a few months. They are victimized because people like the PLO and Hamas have always hidden among them. They are victimized because when Israel retaliates for attacks on Israel they always get caught in the middle. Hamas, Isis and the like yes they are monsters. While the Israelis are by no means perfect, they have been fighting for their lives for their entire lives. By this I mean that their enemies say they will settle for nothing less than their eradication.


Peons is just a straw man argument

"Pathetic and weak" as SNL Ahhnold would say

No one has posted anything like what he claims

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 1:24:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

To me it seems that one side is utterly locked into the view that Israel is made up of 'upstanding citizens who are sort of like ourselves', whereas Palestine is full of 'barbarians, semihumans, animals, terrorists, madmen'.

Or similar. It doesn't matter what the Israelis do to the Palestinians, or vice versa: the former are 'people of our sort', the latter are just not not 'people' in the same sense that *we* are.

No, like many you miss the demarcation. Most of the Palestinians, since the 47 war, have been victims. They were victimized by the Arab governments who told them just to go to the camps because they would get rid of Israel in just a few months. They are victimized because people like the PLO and Hamas have always hidden among them. They are victimized because when Israel retaliates for attacks on Israel they always get caught in the middle. Hamas, Isis and the like yes they are monsters. While the Israelis are by no means perfect, they have been fighting for their lives for their entire lives. By this I mean that their enemies say they will settle for nothing less than their eradication.


Peons is just a straw man argument

"Pathetic and weak" as SNL Ahhnold would say

No one has posted anything like what he claims

I know, but I was channeling Joe so I used 10 times the needed words.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 4:08:59 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is appears that Zionists and their pathetic ever dwindling bunch of apologists are reduced to arguing that one massacre justifies another, that one war crime justifies another,


Ah, so you do admit that the massacres started with the Palistians. Good. Then your racist hate for the other side is why you choose the side you do.


For reference to tweak:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Zionist


(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 4:42:50 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Good spot....Wiki let Tweaks edit the page, just to prove you are a tosser............



Here is something you apparently dont know, Wiki lets anyone edit their pages

I proved that someone edited out certain facts that are inconvenient to the Islamist propaganda effort.



Here is something you apparently dont know, Wiki doesnt always let anyone edit their pages.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty - 5/21/2015 4:45:47 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is appears that Zionists and their pathetic ever dwindling bunch of apologists are reduced to arguing that one massacre justifies another, that one war crime justifies another,


Ah, so you do admit that the massacres started with the Palistians. Good. Then your racist hate for the other side is why you choose the side you do.



Good to see you agree that semites are a race, or are you still confused ?

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 120
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