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Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 2:56:03 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sure by now most of us have heard of this in some form. For most of the sane folks on here, this is just a fair opportunity to laugh and mock conservatives. That one has to be pretty insane, dumb, and/or easily manipulated to believe the conspiracies that are flying around the internet.

Da Facts...

A few months ago the US Military (through the Pentagon) announced a series of military training exercises to help special forces units in operating in certain areas of the world. This is not unheard of as the military has often trained its people depending on the geographical and climate they will be deployed to. Jade Helm 15 is operating in a collection of states whose make up closely resemble other areas of the word. This will run from July to September of this year. Involving all four branches of the military. Most of it is special forces.

HOWEVER....

Conservatives have not seen it that way. Due to conservative media and propaganda machines running 24/7/365/10+, have filled their minds with half-truths and out right lies. They know conservatives as a mass make up 80-90% of 'The Low Information Voter' bracket in this nation. They are easily manipulated and fooled by these organizations and people they have been conditioned (for lack of a better word) to believe is true and accurate. Even when faced with the facts and evidences to the contrary on this and other issues, these Americans believe its lies and bullshit; the truth, as they say, is out there! Like President Obama outlawing Christianity and firearms with an executive order/privilege.....

A Lt. Col. Mark Lastoria was sent to one of the staging grounds for exercises in Bastop, TX. This individual met with towns folks and tried to explain clearly and precisely what is the nature of the operations. Afterward, answered questions 'town hall meeting' style. Lt. Col. Lastoria explains the scope of activities quite well. A third of the people speaking really had some good questions. They consisted of verification of military concepts unknown to most civilians. The remainder was just question after question of a people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. Even as the gentleman explained reality a casual observer could tell the individual asking the question was not satisfied with the answer and didn't trust the person giving the answer.

This is the United States Military these people are questioning. Questioning these soldiers loyalty to this nation. Governor Abbott (Gov-R-TX) has to issue a letter stating the citizens of Texas were not questioning the loyalty of US service people. Again, any casual observer of all this would plainly see there is a HUGE amount of distrust going on. If there wasn't, why all the fuss?

This issue has forced not just each branch, or the Pentagon, but the Joint Chiefs to issue a formal letter stating this is just a training exercise and NOT a take over of Texas. The fear in Texas seems to be that this military exercise is a cover for the military to jump in, take over the state, declare martial law, take guns and bibles from citizens and force them into FEMA camps for re-education purposes just prior to a general election!. These people are 'a few clowns short of a full circus'!

If a bunch of special forces can defend all the open carrying gun nuts, the Texas National Guard, and all the law enforcement within just a month or two; I think its fair to say those jokers are in trouble if they tried to succeed the state from the US Government (which they cant legally speaking). Since the whole of the US Military would easily overwhelm Texas if it did.

But why would they do so? They already CONTROL THE FUCKING LAND!!!!!

Some of the conspiracy rants say this whole thing was created by President Obama. Its no surprise that these same folks harbor an intense dislike for the Commander-in-Chief and have been trying for years to undermine and discredit him. Even their elected officials like Tex Cruz and Gov. Abbott have tried a number of silly and stupid shit. We have had Chuck Norris get into the clown car! Just Google their names with 'Jade Helm 15' to watch the hilarity....

But this is nothing new for the US Military, these exercises. In fact its been going on since 1991. That would be the former George H. W. Bush administration. And what state is this gentleman from? The State of Texas! Similar exercises have been performed during Clinton and then G. H. W. Bush's son, George W. Bush. Why are conservatives so alarmed under about this exercise....NOW....under President Obama? Its the same one as G. H. W. Bush. And they didn't have any problems; in fact, they were in favor of it!

They don't trust their fellow Americans but demand unconditional trust from them! These folks just do not understand that trust is a two way street. In fact, some companies are considering moving their operations or even headquarters to states with more sane and intelligent people. They just don't want to be associated with a population that distrusts the United States Military and the people it makes up!

Ted Cruz on Jade Helm 15 Trying to milk it like George W. Bush milked 9/11 years ago. Preying upon conservatives fears and ignorance for political gain.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 3:05:03 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Conservatives are supposed to give a shit about Jade 15 but it takes a "liberal" to start a thread on it?

An all straw man thread too, no substance. Plenty of the typical lies we have come to expect from "liberal" posters

Your clip on Ted Cruz for example, you wrote that he was milking it etc, but anyone can click on the link and see how that is just another in a long series of your bloviating and outright lies

The only one trying to "milk it" is you

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 3:05:51 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think you have your facts wrong again. Been going on since 1940 and possibly before but not sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Maneuvers

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 4:09:01 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmmm...when 3rd Brigade, 82nd Airborne, jumped into Missoula, Montana in 1977, we jumped into an area that was a mix of ranchers and blue collar timbermen and college students, conservatives and liberals. Not surprisingly...given the times...we weren't welcomed all that warmly by the college population, despite most of us being closer to their age and shared interests. No, where we found our warmer welcome was amongst the "older" folks...Those over 30, 35.

Believe it or not, Joether...your side did not always feel very warmly towards the military. And, given the animosity shown on many college campuses towards anything that smacks of a military presence...in the form of R.O.T.C. or many recruiters...I'd say that still holds true, at least among the young. And I'd be willing to bet fairly good money that the majority of those parents displaying those "my son/daughter is in the Army/Navy/Marines/Air Force" are conservative.

So why would conservatives in Texas...if they do...have a distrust of the President's military? Hmmmm...could it be his comments about certain segments of the population clinging to their Guns and Bibles? Could it be the clashes between their state and the Feds over issues such as border control? Could it be the President declaring what happened at Fort Hood a "workplace tragedy" rather than the terrorist act it was?

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 5/19/2015 4:20:10 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 4:14:44 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I WILL point out that F troop tried to burn down the state during an exercise so there IS a need for adult supervision especially considering the stupidity of some of the domestic exercises.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 4:17:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is the United States Military these people are questioning.

Joe you have this part wrong. The people who see this as a plot do so not because they don't trust the military, but because they don't trust the civilians who give them orders.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 4:21:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		which they cant legally speaking).

Joe, the world court says otherwise, since Texas was an independent nation when they joined the Union.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 4:23:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Since the whole of the US Military would easily overwhelm Texas if it did.

Joe try talking out of only one side of your mouth at a time, either the military would not take action against civilians or they would, but not both depending on what you want to see.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 5:02:49 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Conservatives are supposed to give a shit about Jade 15 but it takes a "liberal" to start a thread on it?

An all straw man thread too, no substance. Plenty of the typical lies we have come to expect from "liberal" posters

Your clip on Ted Cruz for example, you wrote that he was milking it etc, but anyone can click on the link and see how that is just another in a long series of your bloviating and outright lies

The only one trying to "milk it" is you


Sanity, I'm going to quote from another thread.

/thread

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 5:06:29 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, for those who don't want /thread. I'd like to point out that there is a brewing company just north of San Diego called "Stone". I'm seriously enjoying a "smoked porter" they make. PS and Peon. It will never replace a Guiness. But, in any serious situation where a Guiness may not be available, it will do.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 5:11:35 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		This isn't 1955. When the government speaks; people have found they are most often spinning a lie. Anything from inside the beltway is expected to be a half truth at best until overwhelming evidence to the contrary is given.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 5:40:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I'm sure by now most of us have heard of this in some form. For most of the sane folks on here, this is just a fair opportunity to laugh and mock conservatives. That one has to be pretty insane, dumb, and/or easily manipulated to believe the conspiracies that are flying around the internet.

Da Facts...

A few months ago the US Military (through the Pentagon) announced a series of military training exercises to help special forces units in operating in certain areas of the world. This is not unheard of as the military has often trained its people depending on the geographical and climate they will be deployed to. Jade Helm 15 is operating in a collection of states whose make up closely resemble other areas of the word. This will run from July to September of this year. Involving all four branches of the military. Most of it is special forces.

HOWEVER....

Conservatives have not seen it that way. Due to conservative media and propaganda machines running 24/7/365/10+, have filled their minds with half-truths and out right lies. They know conservatives as a mass make up 80-90% of 'The Low Information Voter' bracket in this nation. They are easily manipulated and fooled by these organizations and people they have been conditioned (for lack of a better word) to believe is true and accurate. Even when faced with the facts and evidences to the contrary on this and other issues, these Americans believe its lies and bullshit; the truth, as they say, is out there! Like President Obama outlawing Christianity and firearms with an executive order/privilege.....

A Lt. Col. Mark Lastoria was sent to one of the staging grounds for exercises in Bastop, TX. This individual met with towns folks and tried to explain clearly and precisely what is the nature of the operations. Afterward, answered questions 'town hall meeting' style. Lt. Col. Lastoria explains the scope of activities quite well. A third of the people speaking really had some good questions. They consisted of verification of military concepts unknown to most civilians. The remainder was just question after question of a people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. Even as the gentleman explained reality a casual observer could tell the individual asking the question was not satisfied with the answer and didn't trust the person giving the answer.

This is the United States Military these people are questioning. Questioning these soldiers loyalty to this nation. Governor Abbott (Gov-R-TX) has to issue a letter stating the citizens of Texas were not questioning the loyalty of US service people. Again, any casual observer of all this would plainly see there is a HUGE amount of distrust going on. If there wasn't, why all the fuss?

This issue has forced not just each branch, or the Pentagon, but the Joint Chiefs to issue a formal letter stating this is just a training exercise and NOT a take over of Texas. The fear in Texas seems to be that this military exercise is a cover for the military to jump in, take over the state, declare martial law, take guns and bibles from citizens and force them into FEMA camps for re-education purposes just prior to a general election!. These people are 'a few clowns short of a full circus'!

If a bunch of special forces can defend all the open carrying gun nuts, the Texas National Guard, and all the law enforcement within just a month or two; I think its fair to say those jokers are in trouble if they tried to succeed the state from the US Government (which they cant legally speaking). Since the whole of the US Military would easily overwhelm Texas if it did.

But why would they do so? They already CONTROL THE FUCKING LAND!!!!!

Some of the conspiracy rants say this whole thing was created by President Obama. Its no surprise that these same folks harbor an intense dislike for the Commander-in-Chief and have been trying for years to undermine and discredit him. Even their elected officials like Tex Cruz and Gov. Abbott have tried a number of silly and stupid shit. We have had Chuck Norris get into the clown car! Just Google their names with 'Jade Helm 15' to watch the hilarity....

But this is nothing new for the US Military, these exercises. In fact its been going on since 1991. That would be the former George H. W. Bush administration. And what state is this gentleman from? The State of Texas! Similar exercises have been performed during Clinton and then G. H. W. Bush's son, George W. Bush. Why are conservatives so alarmed under about this exercise....NOW....under President Obama? Its the same one as G. H. W. Bush. And they didn't have any problems; in fact, they were in favor of it!

They don't trust their fellow Americans but demand unconditional trust from them! These folks just do not understand that trust is a two way street. In fact, some companies are considering moving their operations or even headquarters to states with more sane and intelligent people. They just don't want to be associated with a population that distrusts the United States Military and the people it makes up!

Ted Cruz on Jade Helm 15 Trying to milk it like George W. Bush milked 9/11 years ago. Preying upon conservatives fears and ignorance for political gain.

If in 18 Cruz holds an exercise in which Mass is declared to be hostile territory how secure will you feel?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 5:54:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

which they cant legally speaking).

Joe, the world court says otherwise, since Texas was an independent nation when they joined the Union.

Doubt that you are aware of this but there is bo ground swell for Texas to leave the Union. Don't bother with linking to a wacko blog that says otherwise.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 6:12:11 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		As I recall, from junior high history. Each state that enters the union has to a have a state constitution ratified by the Feds. As I recall, Texas had the right to leave the Union in its state constitution. The Feds ratified it. I beleive it still exists. It's an old memory. Maybe we should just ask Joe, he'd know. He tells us he knows everything.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 6:28:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

As I recall, from junior high history. Each state that enters the union has to a have a state constitution ratified by the Feds. As I recall, Texas had the right to leave the Union in its state constitution. The Feds ratified it. I beleive it still exists. It's an old memory. Maybe we should just ask Joe, he'd know. He tells us he knows everything.

When Texas joined the Union they were the independent nation of Texas. Other states, after the original 13 came in as territories being elevated to statehood (with the exception of Maine and West Virginia which broke away from existing states). The world court has ruled (at the behest of a private citizen, not the state of Texas) that this special circumstance gives Texas the right to leave if they so chose.
That clause may well be in their Constitution which means that when the North forced them back into the Union in 1865 they were in violation of international law.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/19/2015 6:31:04 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 6:54:11 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/02/17/justice-scalias-thoughts-on-state-secession-penned-to-one-man/


"If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”)"

That is Justice Antonin Scalia — who would probably rank No. 1 or 2 in a parlor-game bet over which Justice is most likely to sign a secession petition.

Texas is allowed to break-up into five states.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 7:25:27 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		Okay, I remembered Texas had something.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 7:25:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/02/17/justice-scalias-thoughts-on-state-secession-penned-to-one-man/


"If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”)"

That is Justice Antonin Scalia — who would probably rank No. 1 or 2 in a parlor-game bet over which Justice is most likely to sign a secession petition.

Texas is allowed to break-up into five states.

My point was that an international court (which Joe reveres much more than either of us). Joe will also tell us, on any issue than this that Scalia is an idiot who is always wrong. I was merely demonstrating how Joe has himself in a bind. If his view of the world is right he claim about Texas not being able to leave the Union is wrong and if Texas is not able to leave the Union it harms his world view.

As I said there is no ground swell for leaving. I like the Idea of five states, that would mean 8 more senators that Joe would hate.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/19/2015 7:28:47 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 7:28:19 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/02/17/justice-scalias-thoughts-on-state-secession-penned-to-one-man/


"If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”)"

That is Justice Antonin Scalia — who would probably rank No. 1 or 2 in a parlor-game bet over which Justice is most likely to sign a secession petition.

Texas is allowed to break-up into five states.

My point was that an international court (which Joe reveres much more than either of us). Joe will also tell us, on any issue than this that Scalia is an idiot who is always wrong. I was merely demonstrating how Joe has himself in a bind. If his view of the world is right he claim about Texas not being able to leave the Union is wrong and if Texas is not able to leave the Union it harms his world view.



Are we giving odds on what side Joe comes down on? His world view is wrong. Or his world view is wrong.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Jade Helm 15 - 5/19/2015 7:30:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/02/17/justice-scalias-thoughts-on-state-secession-penned-to-one-man/


"If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”)"

That is Justice Antonin Scalia — who would probably rank No. 1 or 2 in a parlor-game bet over which Justice is most likely to sign a secession petition.

Texas is allowed to break-up into five states.

My point was that an international court (which Joe reveres much more than either of us). Joe will also tell us, on any issue than this that Scalia is an idiot who is always wrong. I was merely demonstrating how Joe has himself in a bind. If his view of the world is right he claim about Texas not being able to leave the Union is wrong and if Texas is not able to leave the Union it harms his world view.



Are we giving odds on what side Joe comes down on? His world view is wrong. Or his world view is wrong.

LOL


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 20
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