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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

All of you sound like drug pushers on the street corner. There is absolutely no reason the government needs, or should, be involved with my health care.

Right, Hunter, listen, it isn't the government. It's the community. We have decided that it is a good idea for the nation to be in good health, in the same way some people decide it is a good idea to have a strong defence.

You tell me, are you happy going along with a system to which you contribute ran by the government? i.e. defence.

Personally, it's been a long time since I was in hit in the face by an Iranian bomb, and I think it's a sham. Whereas I see health and education issues everyday. Seeing is believing is my philosophy.

Defense is in my constitution. Health Care is not. I don't want any government usurpation of the constitution. Or I should say any more. I might add that Europe is used to being controlled by the government. The U.S. was the First Nation that put people above the government and is like it to stay that way. It's philosophical at best now because we're pretty far down that slippery slope, but I'll stick with the philosophy.

I understand the history of the United States (at least a small part of it) when the people forming the nation had a look at what was then the United Province (these days The Netherlands and part of Belgium) and concluded that they had the most freedoms in the world but were open to invasion, and so the question for the United States was how can we provide for civil liberty while guarding the nation?

But, regardless, you like the government to get involved when you agree with them, i.e. defence, or am I wrong?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Not yet, no. But you miss the point. When they decide a treatment that is offered here, say for cancer, is to expensive there, they don't provide it. And I read, correct me if I'm wrong, that there even if a person can afford it for themselves they still won't offer it because it's not "fair" to others in the system. If that's not putting people down for "fairness" I don't know what is.

Fuck knows never had cancer, touch wood.

What I can say is that my Grandmother died about 8 years back, from cancer, and was in hospital for the last 3 weeks of her life. The nurses treated her like their own Grandmother. Looked after her, gave a person passing through this world care and attention.

And, in the end no matter what enemies you think you have, or what you don't like about the government "big" or "small", all you really have is a heart and a soul and it was appreciated that the people of England club together to aid people who need it.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Fuck knows never had cancer, touch wood.

What I can say is that my Grandmother died about 8 years back, from cancer, and was in hospital for the last 3 weeks of her life. The nurses treated her like their own Grandmother. Looked after her, gave a person passing through this world care and attention.

And, in the end no matter what enemies you think you have, or what you don't like about the government "big" or "small", all you really have is a heart and a soul and it was appreciated that the people of England club together to aid people who need it.

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NHS cancer care faces fresh scrutiny after hospitals miss key targets

Up to a quarter of patients with three common types of cancer did not receive first treatment within required 62 days, official figures show

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AstraZeneca’s chief executive has warned that the UK is “falling behind” in cancer care and questioned the government’s commitment to innovation, after an ovarian cancer drug developed by British scientists was deemed too expensive for use in the National Health Service.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

State and local government used to run schools and we produced the best graduates in the world. Now with the federal government involved and running them we're placed way at the bottom internationally.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Not yet, no. But you miss the point. When they decide a treatment that is offered here, say for cancer, is to expensive there, they don't provide it. And I read, correct me if I'm wrong, that there even if a person can afford it for themselves they still won't offer it because it's not "fair" to others in the system. If that's not putting people down for "fairness" I don't know what is.

Fuck knows never had cancer, touch wood.

What I can say is that my Grandmother died about 8 years back, from cancer, and was in hospital for the last 3 weeks of her life. The nurses treated her like their own Grandmother. Looked after her, gave a person passing through this world care and attention.

And, in the end no matter what enemies you think you have, or what you don't like about the government "big" or "small", all you really have is a heart and a soul and it was appreciated that the people of England club together to aid people who need it.

I understand that. My female is an intensive care nurse. She comes home crying frequently. But, by the way, since she's in the free market system she also comes home with over $100,000 a year compared to your caring and wage controlled $34,000 a year doing the same thing.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2126379/Sentenced-death-old-The-NHS-denies-life-saving-treatment-elderly-mans-chilling-story-reveals.html

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‘The doctor said that as my father was 78, these treatments would not be appropriate because he was “too old”.

‘But my father was very fit and muscular. He regularly went running and worked out at the gym. He was also a lifelong rower who held competition records. But all the consultant would say was: “You have to accept that your father is dying.”

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I think I said 45,000 pounds, not 34,000 United States dollars.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Never mind.

I couldn't possibly win this argument as I'm not committed to it in the way you are.

I could say that you should read the experiences of Americans in this country, which I did and you swerved it, and I could say that your system is consistently ranked well below the other systems we're talking of.

But, it doesn't really matter, all that matters is that you and yours get the care that you expect and the rest isn't that important.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Not yet, no. But you miss the point. When they decide a treatment that is offered here, say for cancer, is to expensive there, they don't provide it. And I read, correct me if I'm wrong, that there even if a person can afford it for themselves they still won't offer it because it's not "fair" to others in the system. If that's not putting people down for "fairness" I don't know what is.

Fuck knows never had cancer, touch wood.

What I can say is that my Grandmother died about 8 years back, from cancer, and was in hospital for the last 3 weeks of her life. The nurses treated her like their own Grandmother. Looked after her, gave a person passing through this world care and attention.

And, in the end no matter what enemies you think you have, or what you don't like about the government "big" or "small", all you really have is a heart and a soul and it was appreciated that the people of England club together to aid people who need it.

I understand that. My female is an intensive care nurse. She comes home crying frequently. But, by the way, since she's in the free market system she also comes home with over $100,000 a year compared to your caring and wage controlled $34,000 a year doing the same thing.

I think I said 45,000 pounds, not 34,000 United States dollars.

Never mind.

I couldn't possibly win this argument as I'm not committed to it in the way you are.

I could say that you should read the experiences of Americans in this country, which I did and you swerved it, and I could say that your system is consistently ranked well below the other systems we're talking of.

But, it doesn't really matter, all that matters is that you and yours get the care that you expect and the rest isn't that important.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Not yet, no. But you miss the point. When they decide a treatment that is offered here, say for cancer, is to expensive there, they don't provide it. And I read, correct me if I'm wrong, that there even if a person can afford it for themselves they still won't offer it because it's not "fair" to others in the system. If that's not putting people down for "fairness" I don't know what is.

Fuck knows never had cancer, touch wood.

What I can say is that my Grandmother died about 8 years back, from cancer, and was in hospital for the last 3 weeks of her life. The nurses treated her like their own Grandmother. Looked after her, gave a person passing through this world care and attention.

And, in the end no matter what enemies you think you have, or what you don't like about the government "big" or "small", all you really have is a heart and a soul and it was appreciated that the people of England club together to aid people who need it.

I understand that. My female is an intensive care nurse. She comes home crying frequently. But, by the way, since she's in the free market system she also comes home with over $100,000 a year compared to your caring and wage controlled $34,000 a year doing the same thing.

I think I said 45,000 pounds, not 34,000 United States dollars.

Never mind.

I couldn't possibly win this argument as I'm not committed to it in the way you are.

I could say that you should read the experiences of Americans in this country, which I did and you swerved it, and I could say that your system is consistently ranked well below the other systems we're talking of.

But, it doesn't really matter, all that matters is that you and yours get the care that you expect and the rest isn't that important.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I think I said 45,000 pounds, not 34,000 United States dollars.

That would be a very... Conveniently high guess, when the reality is much lower. The first Google source I clicked on cited a figure of £23,025 being the median

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Never mind.

I couldn't possibly win this argument as I'm not committed to it in the way you are.

I could say that you should read the experiences of Americans in this country, which I did and you swerved it, and I could say that your system is consistently ranked well below the other systems we're talking of.

But, it doesn't really matter, all that matters is that you and yours get the care that you expect and the rest isn't that important.

No, you cant win an honest debate when the facts arent on your side. The best you can do in that case is try to deflect in a passive-aggressive fashion, or perhaps even go full troll on us as so many others here do

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

I have no idea what the salaries are for a nurse, midwife etc in England. All I know is that my Sister earns around £45,000.

In terms of the contrast between the systems, I just googled in American opinions of the NHS, and every link of the first page was extremely complimentary on the behalf of Americans who had used our system.

Here's an example:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US

I don't know why I'm arguing this because quite frankly I don't care which is the best system.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

I have no idea what the salaries are for a nurse, midwife etc in England. All I know is that my Sister earns around £45,000.

In terms of the contrast between the systems, I just googled in American opinions of the NHS, and every link of the first page was extremely complimentary on the behalf of Americans who had used our system.

Here's an example:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US

I don't know why I'm arguing this because quite frankly I don't care which is the best system.

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the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution.

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The commies are kicking our ass at it

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

I have no idea what the salaries are for a nurse, midwife etc in England. All I know is that my Sister earns around £45,000.

In terms of the contrast between the systems, I just googled in American opinions of the NHS, and every link of the first page was extremely complimentary on the behalf of Americans who had used our system.

Here's an example:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US

I don't know why I'm arguing this because quite frankly I don't care which is the best system.

Okay read your link. Some notes. He says it was all free but in the US people pay $8,000ish. He's obviously not counting the taxes he pays for the system that we do not pay. So, he doesn't understand what he's talking about in that regard. I posted something yesterday that shows France takes 8% of a salary for medical. It seems to me that is a wash. Actually, I pay roughly $6,000 a year for health care and if they took 8% of my salary it would be substantially more. How much more I won't say in this forum but leave it at substantially. So as a percentage, I pay a much lower percentage.

The other note is about waitin in emergency rooms. Here, emergency rooms are full, always, with illigal aliens using them for stuff like colds. If you had 16,000,000 people using your emergency rooms for general practice type going to see the doctor, I'd guess your system would colaspe. But, on the other hand he mentions since he has citizenship there he is entitled to use the emergency room. I wonder if you would even allow 16,000,000 illigals into your system and if you did, or didn't, how your system would actually compare to ours.

So, that problems stems from another source. And it does point out he had to wait six weeks to see a specialist. Where I've recounted here where I went from primary care physician all the way through surgery in three weeks.

Also, I'd like to recount that the guy thought he was loosing his hearing when he was given an appointment six weeks out. I'll recount that once, in my mid 30's I was whacked by a bad bounding baseball directly on the ear. I lost hearing and blood was dribbling from my ear. I was seen at the emergency room in about two minutes and was given an appointment with a specialist the next day.

So, my personal experience is that I have been better served here than he was there, despite 16,000,000 illigals using the system without paying into the system.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

I have no idea what the salaries are for a nurse, midwife etc in England. All I know is that my Sister earns around £45,000.

In terms of the contrast between the systems, I just googled in American opinions of the NHS, and every link of the first page was extremely complimentary on the behalf of Americans who had used our system.

Here's an example:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US

I don't know why I'm arguing this because quite frankly I don't care which is the best system.

Okay read your link. Some notes. He says it was all free but in the US people pay $8,000ish. He's obviously not counting the taxes he pays for the system that we do not pay. So, he doesn't understand what he's talking about in that regard. I posted something yesterday that shows France takes 8% of a salary for medical. It seems to me that is a wash. Actually, I pay roughly $6,000 a year for health care and if they took 8% of my salary it would be substantially more. How much more I won't say in this forum but leave it at substantially. So as a percentage, I pay a much lower percentage.

The other note is about waitin in emergency rooms. Here, emergency rooms are full, always, with illigal aliens using them for stuff like colds. If you had 16,000,000 people using your emergency rooms for general practice type going to see the doctor, I'd guess your system would colaspe. But, on the other hand he mentions since he has citizenship there he is entitled to use the emergency room. I wonder if you would even allow 16,000,000 illigals into your system and if you did, or didn't, how your system would actually compare to ours.

So, that problems stems from another source. And it does point out he had to wait six weeks to see a specialist. Where I've recounted here where I went from primary care physician all the way through surgery in three weeks.

Also, I'd like to recount that the guy thought he was loosing his hearing when he was given an appointment six weeks out. I'll recount that once, in my mid 30's I was whacked by a bad bounding baseball directly on the ear. I lost hearing and blood was dribbling from my ear. I was seen at the emergency room in about two minutes and was given an appointment with a specialist the next day.

So, my personal experience is that I have been better served here than he was there, despite 16,000,000 illigals using the system without paying into the system.

I think he concluded that the English system costs somewhere around $3,500 per head and the US system $8,000 - taxes and the like included.

He is comparing the same treatment in the two systems (for example, he wasn't given a crack round the head with a baseball bat), and oddly enough every American on the first page I googled was wary of potential bureaucracy and a sub-standard service beforehand, but left the doors of the NHS thinking that on balance it was the better system of the two.

Either the game is rigged and someone is making sure that the positive experiences of the NHS get on the first page, or it's time to reconsider a touch.

After all, these are Americans who have actually used the NHS.