quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Keep in mind most of socialized medicine is the control of how much is spent. So, they find that care for women's ailments and children tend to take care of the most "noise" complaints they would get. But, end of life stuff just isn't important. Get a serious illness in Canada, Britain, or Europe and it sucks for you.

There are benefits and drawbacks involved when contrasting any systems.

My one experience of the United States, purely anecdotal of course, wasn't a particularly positive one.

One of our party fell over and didn't land particularly well. An ambulance came, they didn't have to, granted, and took her to the hospital. I drove to the hospital to meet her - didn't have the first clue where I was going driving round New Orleans at night but managed to find it.

What an absolute scam. There was no one waiting in this place and it was taking them an eternity to walk up the corridor and back to get something. Looked to me like they felt they had all the time in the world and of course we understood why when we got hit with the bill.

They didn't really do a great deal with the exception of an x-ray and a bandage, but did spend a lot of time talking, walking, asking you to wait. We were in there for two and a half hours for an x-ray and a bandage that took about 15 minutes and no one else was waiting.

It was hardly the epitome of efficiency.

I would guess, however, that someone with plenty of money who wants something done quickly will be better off in the United States.

There are plenty of Americans living in England, some of whom have written about their experiences of the country including the health service. They're on the internet to read and they don't share your view. They make no bones about saying it's not perfect, which of course it isn't and no one needs to tells us that; but on the whole they seem pretty impressed.

quote:

Nearly everyone in France buys top-up insurance to cover the rest. And the “rest” can be rather more than 30 per cent.
This is because reimbursement is set to 70 per cent of what CMU says a procedure might cost, not what it actually costs. Reimbursement for GP visits is 70 per cent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

RE: Hating Christians??? Yes my town is humongously liberal, but we have more churches per square mile than anywhere I know. We have a Baptist (yes I said Baptist) church right on our main highway.

We have Episcopal, Presbyterian, and a Catholic church and school in the center of town.

We have about a dozen non-denominational churches (one also does a Lutheran service).

Not to forget the Mormon Temple up the street.

And the 7th Day Adventist on the corner. Oh and 1 more. On the main street through town, we have a Christian Science Reading Room. I kid you not.

There is NO hating of Christians amongst my liberal church going neighbors.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Nobody in Europe pays for their defense, the U.S. is the only country with a system that can afford an army as well as defend Europe and much of Asia. If the US wasn't providing the defense of Europe, Europe would now either be speaking Russian or living in poverty trying to afford the marxist aspect of their idiocity. It's just old Marist dreams that have failed and the US is supporting. If you want to have a discussion about that it should be whether or not we should be protecting Europe from the failed marxist Russa.

There is much debate over here at the moment.

The United States administration is putting pressure on us to maintain a certain level of spending on defence. Our current government, the Conservative Party, a traditional advocate of a strong defence; is talking of priorities and they are refusing to commit to the level proposed by the Americans. We're not doing so badly ourselves at the moment, I think our unemployment rate is about 5.5% and that includes categories of people who are excluded from the United States unemployment rate calculation.

But, something's gotta give because there's more work to be done in terms of getting our house in order, and I for one hope that defence spending is cut in order to invest elsewhere.

We're at a cross-roads at the moment in terms of our relationship with the United States administration, and I feel the people running our country aren't overly pleased with the amount of pressure being exerted in various areas. Take the European Union, for example, the United States administration has made it clear that we should stay in (because of course we're their Trojan horse), whereas the majority of people over here want out.

What you term 'the protection of Europe' is perhaps not quite that, and more than one United States administration has had form for setting up a department for propaganda and controlling the flow of information in order to get the people on side for certain ventures. So, not quite a bastion for freedom.

In my view, the United States has done some things very well, better than most; but the weight of history wouldn't support your contrasting views of the United States and England, and I assume you include the English when you say 'Europe', no matter that England and continental Europe are as different in terms of thought and deed as chalk and cheese are.

Not in the least do I mean England when I say Europe. Other than driving on the wrong side of the road, I like England/Britain. I personally really don't care if you have to get your house in order, however, before you and the rest of the free world decides you want to remain free and takes up your own defense. None of you, Britain included, would exist in your present form if the U.S. weren't paying for your defense and it's time to stop. You'll have to decide between speaking Russian or Chinese or being socialists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


I'm pretty sure in this country you can buy trip insurance so that you are covered in the medical system for the country to which you are going. Had that not occurred to you before you came here or did you just expect free stuff when you got here?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Keep in mind most of socialized medicine is the control of how much is spent. So, they find that care for women's ailments and children tend to take care of the most "noise" complaints they would get. But, end of life stuff just isn't important. Get a serious illness in Canada, Britain, or Europe and it sucks for you.

There are benefits and drawbacks involved when contrasting any systems.

My one experience of the United States, purely anecdotal of course, wasn't a particularly positive one.

One of our party fell over and didn't land particularly well. An ambulance came, they didn't have to, granted, and took her to the hospital. I drove to the hospital to meet her - didn't have the first clue where I was going driving round New Orleans at night but managed to find it.

What an absolute scam. There was no one waiting in this place and it was taking them an eternity to walk up the corridor and back to get something. Looked to me like they felt they had all the time in the world and of course we understood why when we got hit with the bill.

They didn't really do a great deal with the exception of an x-ray and a bandage, but did spend a lot of time talking, walking, asking you to wait. We were in there for two and a half hours for an x-ray and a bandage that took about 15 minutes and no one else was waiting.

It was hardly the epitome of efficiency.

I would guess, however, that someone with plenty of money who wants something done quickly will be better off in the United States.

There are plenty of Americans living in England, some of whom have written about their experiences of the country including the health service. They're on the internet to read and they don't share your view. They make no bones about saying it's not perfect, which of course it isn't and no one needs to tells us that; but on the whole they seem pretty impressed.

Everyone in France has "FREE" healthcare. Yet, everyone in France buys health care to avoid the system.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/8251102/Expat-guide-to-France-health-care.html

quote:

Nearly everyone in France buys top-up insurance to cover the rest. And the “rest” can be rather more than 30 per cent.
This is because reimbursement is set to 70 per cent of what CMU says a procedure might cost, not what it actually costs. Reimbursement for GP visits is 70 per cent.

So your "I suppose someone with money" comment really applies to the European socialist healthcare system and it's familiar to you, so you assume it would be the same here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Nobody in Europe pays for their defense, the U.S. is the only country with a system that can afford an army as well as defend Europe and much of Asia. If the US wasn't providing the defense of Europe, Europe would now either be speaking Russian or living in poverty trying to afford the marxist aspect of their idiocity. It's just old Marist dreams that have failed and the US is supporting. If you want to have a discussion about that it should be whether or not we should be protecting Europe from the failed marxist Russa.

There is much debate over here at the moment.

The United States administration is putting pressure on us to maintain a certain level of spending on defence. Our current government, the Conservative Party, a traditional advocate of a strong defence; is talking of priorities and they are refusing to commit to the level proposed by the Americans. We're not doing so badly ourselves at the moment, I think our unemployment rate is about 5.5% and that includes categories of people who are excluded from the United States unemployment rate calculation.

But, something's gotta give because there's more work to be done in terms of getting our house in order, and I for one hope that defence spending is cut in order to invest elsewhere.

We're at a cross-roads at the moment in terms of our relationship with the United States administration, and I feel the people running our country aren't overly pleased with the amount of pressure being exerted in various areas. Take the European Union, for example, the United States administration has made it clear that we should stay in (because of course we're their Trojan horse), whereas the majority of people over here want out.

What you term 'the protection of Europe' is perhaps not quite that, and more than one United States administration has had form for setting up a department for propaganda and controlling the flow of information in order to get the people on side for certain ventures. So, not quite a bastion for freedom.

In my view, the United States has done some things very well, better than most; but the weight of history wouldn't support your contrasting views of the United States and England, and I assume you include the English when you say 'Europe', no matter that England and continental Europe are as different in terms of thought and deed as chalk and cheese are.

Not in the least do I mean England when I say Europe. Other than driving on the wrong side of the road, I like England/Britain. I personally really don't care if you have to get your house in order, however, before you and the rest of the free world decides you want to remain free and takes up your own defense. None of you, Britain included, would exist in your present form if the U.S. weren't paying for your defense and it's time to stop. You'll have to decide between speaking Russian or Chinese or being socialists.

Well, I could be wrong here, but I'm fairly sure that the majority of the English people have voted for the Conservative Party in every general election since the dawn of time, and this is unrivalled anywhere in the world. The reason we sometimes have a slightly left-of-centre party in government is because Scotland and Wales to a lesser extent vote in huge swathes for such parties and that sometimes tips the balance. Not that it fills me with glee as I'm not a conservative but this should give you an understanding that England is hardly likely to edge towards Socialism, nor can we reconcile our differences with continental Europe.

And, on that point, there is a feeling that the United States has over-stepped the mark by making it known we should stay in the European Union. It is one thing sharing intelligence and defence, and by the way you're not giving us something for nothing - you're getting something out of the deal - but it's another thing attempting to tell us that we need to be part of a union that at best we can only ever be a bit part player knocking our heads against a brick wall because we don't agree with the main players, i.e. France and Germany.

This is probably an irreconcilable stand point, because the Americans need us in there as part of controlling the spread of ideas and we generally feel that we have more to lose than to gain due to cultural differences and opinions.

Of course this has prickled the Conservative Party, the current government, and I sense the administration feel it's time to rein in the control that is being exerted over us.

In terms of US help with defence, you've helped us out loads of times, and one instance many won't be aware of is that during the '60s the Americans gave us certain weapons at a knock down price, otherwise it was unaffordable.

Oh, and while world opinion is divided on the matter: we drive on left side of the road and the rest of the world drives on the right side of the road - as per usual you people around the world aren't making any sense on the subject!

But, back to the issue of Russia and the like, I think there's probably a difference of opinion on their designs. They've no intention of turning us into socialists, in fact they're not socialist themselves: Putin and assorted nationalists filled the void left by the American sponsored Yeltsin attempt to turn Russia into a free market.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


I'm pretty sure in this country you can buy trip insurance so that you are covered in the medical system for the country to which you are going. Had that not occurred to you before you came here or did you just expect free stuff when you got here?

We had travel insurance, which apparently is not sufficient in the United States. No big deal, we were caught out, I understand it's your country to do as you please and as such we settled the bill accordingly.

None of this, however, detracts from the fact that we were chronically over-charged for the service we received.

Yes, value is relative but only to an extent.

In terms of the socialist point, we could go round the houses on this 'til the cows come home but assuming the whole healthcare issue is a point of interest to you have a read of the experiences of Americans in this country. As said, they lay no claim to it being perfect but to a man/woman they seem to be impressed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Keep in mind most of socialized medicine is the control of how much is spent. So, they find that care for women's ailments and children tend to take care of the most "noise" complaints they would get. But, end of life stuff just isn't important. Get a serious illness in Canada, Britain, or Europe and it sucks for you.

There are benefits and drawbacks involved when contrasting any systems.

My one experience of the United States, purely anecdotal of course, wasn't a particularly positive one.

One of our party fell over and didn't land particularly well. An ambulance came, they didn't have to, granted, and took her to the hospital. I drove to the hospital to meet her - didn't have the first clue where I was going driving round New Orleans at night but managed to find it.

What an absolute scam. There was no one waiting in this place and it was taking them an eternity to walk up the corridor and back to get something. Looked to me like they felt they had all the time in the world and of course we understood why when we got hit with the bill.

They didn't really do a great deal with the exception of an x-ray and a bandage, but did spend a lot of time talking, walking, asking you to wait. We were in there for two and a half hours for an x-ray and a bandage that took about 15 minutes and no one else was waiting.

It was hardly the epitome of efficiency.

I would guess, however, that someone with plenty of money who wants something done quickly will be better off in the United States.

There are plenty of Americans living in England, some of whom have written about their experiences of the country including the health service. They're on the internet to read and they don't share your view. They make no bones about saying it's not perfect, which of course it isn't and no one needs to tells us that; but on the whole they seem pretty impressed.

Everyone in France has "FREE" healthcare. Yet, everyone in France buys health care to avoid the system.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/8251102/Expat-guide-to-France-health-care.html

quote:

Nearly everyone in France buys top-up insurance to cover the rest. And the “rest” can be rather more than 30 per cent.
This is because reimbursement is set to 70 per cent of what CMU says a procedure might cost, not what it actually costs. Reimbursement for GP visits is 70 per cent.

So your "I suppose someone with money" comment really applies to the European socialist healthcare system and it's familiar to you, so you assume it would be the same here.

I'm not sure what point you're making here, and I have absolutely no idea how things work in France. I've been to France once or twice in my life and it's just not a place that interests me. When I'm crossing the water into Europe I tend to like to visit Germany and that sort of area.

In terms of going private, yes, you can do this in England. People have the option to pay for a better service - of course you need money to do this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I'm not aware we asked you to stay in the EU. You'll have to fill me in on that. We, my people...my tribe...are more than happy to have you stand with us any time you wish. I can remember being proud when Britain almost didn't join the EU, which I thought was a silly thing to begin with. Why would anyone want to be under that constitution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I'm not aware we asked you to stay in the EU. You'll have to fill me in on that. We, my people...my tribe...are more than happy to have you stand with us any time you wish. I can remember being proud when Britain almost didn't join the EU, which I thought was a silly thing to begin with. Why would anyone want to be under that constitution.

We joined because in true English fashion we hoped to have the best of all worlds, and we joined as a trade initiative not with the intention of being part of a political union.

The French and Germans, of course, always envisaged it as a political union; as far back as the 1950s.

Now, we're caught between a rock and a hard place because the European Union, in its current guise, is not what we want; but that horse bolted a long time ago and there's no turning back to a trade agreement: it's a political union or nothing.

And, yes, it is on record that the United States have said we should stay in. Clearly, a nation controlling the debt or the ideas runs the show and the United States hopes to control ideas in Europe and other parts of the world, and with us being in it is felt that the United States has a like-minded player at the table.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the United States is doing anything that the rest of the world has not attempted to put in practice at one point or another, but on this subject we have a significant difference of opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Thank you for paying your bill. I appreciate it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Thank you for paying your bill. I appreciate it.

We wouldn't dream of not settling up.

And, I should add that your average American was very helpful.

Stopped to help, one woman gave us use of her mobile phone to ring for an ambulance.

Also on our visit, we ordered some fish and it came with cheese, which just didn't cross our minds that cheese was a possibility with fish! One of our party has a problem with digesting cheese so we asked for something else. Instantly, they offered the second dish free, which of course we didn't take up the offer and paid for both as it was our fault we didn't ask the question of whether or not there would be any cheese on the plate.

Only small things, but in general Americans were like that with us. Helpful and courteous.

But, that doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything that we saw and in the hospital we really didn't get value for money, which in turn was not driven by a sentiment that we were expecting something for nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I'm not aware we asked you to stay in the EU. You'll have to fill me in on that. We, my people...my tribe...are more than happy to have you stand with us any time you wish. I can remember being proud when Britain almost didn't join the EU, which I thought was a silly thing to begin with. Why would anyone want to be under that constitution.

We joined because in true English fashion we hoped to have the best of all worlds, and we joined as a trade initiative not with the intention of being part of a political union.

The French and Germans, of course, always envisaged it as a political union; as far back as the 1950s.

Now, we're caught between a rock and a hard place because the European Union, in its current guise, is not what we want; but that horse bolted a long time ago and there's no turning back to a trade agreement: it's a political union or nothing.

And, yes, it is on record that the United States have said we should stay in. Clearly, a nation controlling the debt or the ideas runs the show and the United States hopes to control ideas in Europe and other parts of the world, and with us being in it is felt that the United States has a like-minded player at the table.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the United States is doing anything that the rest of the world has not attempted to put in practice at one point or another, but on this subject we have a significant difference of opinion.

My point was who in the US asked you to stay in? I expect the EU to collapse any day. I'd certainly never wish you to stay in. Yet, we have in the White House a man who almost the first thing he did when he entered the office was return to England a bust of Winston Churchill that Cameron gave us as a gift because he has little regard for or British roots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My point was who in the US asked you to stay in? I expect the EU to collapse any day. I'd certainly never wish you to stay in. Yet, we have in the White House a man who almost the first thing he did when he entered the office was return to England a bust of Winston Churchill that Cameron gave us as a gift because he has little regard for or British roots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I'm not aware we asked you to stay in the EU. You'll have to fill me in on that. We, my people...my tribe...are more than happy to have you stand with us any time you wish. I can remember being proud when Britain almost didn't join the EU, which I thought was a silly thing to begin with. Why would anyone want to be under that constitution.

We joined because in true English fashion we hoped to have the best of all worlds, and we joined as a trade initiative not with the intention of being part of a political union.

The French and Germans, of course, always envisaged it as a political union; as far back as the 1950s.

Now, we're caught between a rock and a hard place because the European Union, in its current guise, is not what we want; but that horse bolted a long time ago and there's no turning back to a trade agreement: it's a political union or nothing.

And, yes, it is on record that the United States have said we should stay in. Clearly, a nation controlling the debt or the ideas runs the show and the United States hopes to control ideas in Europe and other parts of the world, and with us being in it is felt that the United States has a like-minded player at the table.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the United States is doing anything that the rest of the world has not attempted to put in practice at one point or another, but on this subject we have a significant difference of opinion.

My point was who in the US asked you to stay in? I expect the EU to collapse any day. I'd certainly never wish you to stay in. Yet, we have in the White House a man who almost the first thing he did when he entered the office was return to England a bust of Winston Churchill that Cameron gave us as a gift because he has little regard for or British roots.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9810334/Barack-Obama-Britain-should-stay-in-the-EU.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


Keep in mind most of socialized medicine is the control of how much is spent. So, they find that care for women's ailments and children tend to take care of the most "noise" complaints they would get. But, end of life stuff just isn't important. Get a serious illness in Canada, Britain, or Europe and it sucks for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


Keep in mind most of socialized medicine is the control of how much is spent. So, they find that care for women's ailments and children tend to take care of the most "noise" complaints they would get. But, end of life stuff just isn't important. Get a serious illness in Canada, Britain, or Europe and it sucks for you.

Except that you're misinformed. Dozens of studies have demonstrated that the healthcare systems are more or less identical in terms of outcomes. There really isn't any mileage in claiming that the care provided by the US system is "better", because, as a matter of actual measured fact it is not.

There may be other reasons why it is worth spending double what the rest of the developed world spends per capita on healthcare, but "Quality of care" is absolutely not one of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Regarding believing homosexuals are sinners... Believe what you want. Just treat everyone fairly.

RE: Hating Christians??? Yes my town is humongously liberal, but we have more churches per square mile than anywhere I know. We have a Baptist (yes I said Baptist) church right on our main highway.

We have Episcopal, Presbyterian, and a Catholic church and school in the center of town.

We have about a dozen non-denominational churches (one also does a Lutheran service).

Not to forget the Mormon Temple up the street.

And the 7th Day Adventist on the corner. Oh and 1 more. On the main street through town, we have a Christian Science Reading Room. I kid you not.

There is NO hating of Christians amongst my liberal church going neighbors.