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RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 4:43:37 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

There are some who who are perpertually misinformed missiesFavourite.

german has admitted it wont meet its target to return CO2 output back to its 1990 levels by 2020. This was never going to happen when they shut down the nuclear powerstations before enough windfarms etc were in place. The made up the shortfasll by burning brown coal.

I fucking hate windfarms as they are unsightly and one is about to be built off of the southern UK coast, but it will give a viable source of constant power, due to it being constantly windy here.



Constant power? That is something that windfarms can NOT do. They can kill a lot of birds though. And cost more power to make than they provide. THAT is why Germany is getting rid of theirs.


i think we do well to not confuse "differing opinions" or "differing principles" or "still learning" with being "misinformed." otherwise, we look pompous and arrogant.

constant power yes, the wind is blowing all the time----well somewhere at least---maybe if they could put the windmills on wheels??

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 6/16/2015 4:56:57 AM >

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 7:23:25 AM   
missiesfavourite


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/31/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: missiesfavourite


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


That completely explains why Germany has been ending its "Green Energy" programs.



You have been misinformed. Difficult to judge from here whether they told you 1 %, 10 %, or 20 % of the story ... but hardly more than that.



Missie dear, it's not polite to come here and tell someone they are misinformed unless you provide evidence. Unless, of course you're a bimbo. Are you a bimbo missile dear, or just a rude girl?


It is because I live here in Germany, read german papers, watch german news, have my eyes open to see wind generators working, solar panels all over the countryside, pay electricity bills giving me the percentage of "green energy" I consume, travel with "green"-powered electric trains, read current nationwide and regional statistics about these things;


and you (most likely) don't ...

maybe you best come over here and look for yourselves



< Message edited by missiesfavourite -- 6/16/2015 7:26:33 AM >

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 7:42:29 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		that is still not the evidence to tell aylee she is misinformed.

her statement of "Germany has been ending its 'green energy' programs" isnt refuted by that green energy programs are still presently in use.

(in reply to missiesfavourite)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 7:44:11 AM   
missiesfavourite


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/31/2011
Status: offline 		and if you want a link to see the figures try

https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/Wirtschaftsbereiche/Energie/Energie.html

(in reply to missiesfavourite)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 7:46:46 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		tons of this out there...




if the photo's not working, its just a screen shot from a search of "Germany ending green energy programs"

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 6/16/2015 7:48:18 AM >

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 8:00:31 AM   
missiesfavourite


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/31/2011
Status: offline 		maybe to get first hand information you should look for informations in german ... it might help at least to get a broader perspective

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 8:29:56 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missiesfavourite

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: missiesfavourite


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


That completely explains why Germany has been ending its "Green Energy" programs.



You have been misinformed. Difficult to judge from here whether they told you 1 %, 10 %, or 20 % of the story ... but hardly more than that.



Missie dear, it's not polite to come here and tell someone they are misinformed unless you provide evidence. Unless, of course you're a bimbo. Are you a bimbo missile dear, or just a rude girl?


It is because I live here in Germany, read german papers, watch german news, have my eyes open to see wind generators working, solar panels all over the countryside, pay electricity bills giving me the percentage of "green energy" I consume, travel with "green"-powered electric trains, read current nationwide and regional statistics about these things;


and you (most likely) don't ...

maybe you best come over here and look for yourselves



Yes, people see things many times without understanding. Did you read the article posted? Nobody denies those things are there. But, it seems the system is going broke and may soon no longer be there. Perhaps you'll read the article.

(in reply to missiesfavourite)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 8:40:48 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think Germany's energy issues are as political as ours in the US.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060020196

China may actually take a lead in energy-efficiency soon, out of sheer necessity.


China is a different story. The Party is doing everything they need to build a massive war machine at a breakneck pace, capable of waging a world cyber, financial, and military war. In the process, and out of what they felt was necessity, they turned a blind eye on the environmental destruction they were causing. But things have become so bad they can no longer ignore it, so they are reluctantly making some changes. On the bright side for them they now have massive amounts of capital to spend, so they can continue building up to war while easing up on their wholesale environmental destruction.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 9:14:58 AM   
missiesfavourite


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/31/2011
Status: offline 		well - when I used the term "misinformed" I was polite - not calling something what is wrong and falsifying (for whatever motive ...) what it is


I envy your overall vision and understanding of all and everything of course and your experts you can safely rely on explaining to you in width and depth what the locals can simply not understand

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 9:23:00 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missiesfavourite

well - when I used the term "misinformed" I was polite - not calling something what is wrong and falsifying (for whatever motive ...) what it is


I envy your overall vision and understanding of all and everything of course and your experts you can safely rely on explaining to you in width and depth what the locals can simply not understand


Deary, there is this thing called the Internet, that in practicality makes all things local. In other words, I dont need to return to Germany to obtain legitimate, timely news about Germany.

And no, you are rude and you are far more naive than you backhandedly accuse others here of being

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to missiesfavourite)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 3:40:40 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		If all you use for news is U.S. news sources.. you actually miss a lot.
I like to compare BBC News, Pravda, Der Spiegel, and even AllJazheera. All have a bit of a different take on news. I've come to mainly ignore MSNBC, Fox, and CBS as they are out to get eyeballs on page to sell advertising more than reporting. Gad, they make it so hard to find a story for all the popup advertising.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 3:50:08 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Constant power? That is something that windfarms can NOT do. They can kill a lot of birds though. And cost more power to make than they provide. THAT is why Germany is getting rid of theirs.


Sighs....... Is this so difficult for all you deniers to understand...... German are not getting rid of their wind farms.

As for wind farms not providing constant power....... On shore, you may be correct, offshore, in the English Channel, not so much.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 4:35:58 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Constant power? That is something that windfarms can NOT do. They can kill a lot of birds though. And cost more power to make than they provide. THAT is why Germany is getting rid of theirs.


Sighs....... Is this so difficult for all you deniers to understand...... German are not getting rid of their wind farms.

As for wind farms not providing constant power....... On shore, you may be correct, offshore, in the English Channel, not so much.


I think if you read any current information, which I know you don't, you'll see that Germany is finding the subsidies for the wind and solar farms to be too expensive. The article says the state may cut, or stop, the subsidies. The businesses say doing so will end the businesses. Alternative energy is not cheap and Europe is finding out it was a nice thought, but it's not gonna be happening for ever now. Since you have no imagination, you can't see that what Aylee said was a simple way of stating the facts of the article.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/16/2015 5:00:24 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Did you ever notice that for some people that...unless its wrapped around itself in numerous twists and turns to make sure that all the bases...And the outfield too...are covered, they can't understand?

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/17/2015 4:58:13 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Constant power? That is something that windfarms can NOT do. They can kill a lot of birds though. And cost more power to make than they provide. THAT is why Germany is getting rid of theirs.


Sighs....... Is this so difficult for all you deniers to understand...... German are not getting rid of their wind farms.

As for wind farms not providing constant power....... On shore, you may be correct, offshore, in the English Channel, not so much.


I think if you read any current information, which I know you don't, you'll see that Germany is finding the subsidies for the wind and solar farms to be too expensive. The article says the state may cut, or stop, the subsidies. The businesses say doing so will end the businesses. Alternative energy is not cheap and Europe is finding out it was a nice thought, but it's not gonna be happening for ever now. Since you have no imagination, you can't see that what Aylee said was a simple way of stating the facts of the article.


I take it you know fuck all about offshorewind farms, or come to that what Germany has actually said.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/17/2015 6:03:24 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		NYT had interesting piece that ideology drives scientific denial:

• Dr. Oreskes’s (who researched scientific denialists) approach has been to dig deeply into the history of climate change denial, documenting its links to other episodes in which critics challenged a developing scientific consensus.

• Her core discovery, made with a co-author, Erik M. Conway, was twofold. They reported that dubious tactics had been used over decades to cast doubt on scientific findings relating to subjects like acid rain, the ozone shield, tobacco smoke and climate change. And most surprisingly, in each case, the tactics were employed by the same group of people.

• The central players were serious scientists who had major career triumphs during the Cold War, but in subsequent years apparently came to equate environmentalism with socialism, and government regulation with tyranny.

• In a 2010 book, Dr. Oreskes and Dr. Conway called these men “Merchants of Doubt,” and this spring the book became a documentary film, by Robert Kenner. At the heart of both works is a description of methods that were honed by the tobacco industry in the 1960s and have since been employed to cast doubt on just about any science being cited to support new government regulations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/science/naomi-oreskes-a-lightning-rod-in-a-changing-climate.html

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/17/2015 6:04:00 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/17/2015 6:18:30 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

NYT had interesting piece that ideology drives scientific denial:


OF COURSE the New York Slimes did

Do you ever read anything from reputable news sources?

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/17/2015 7:42:37 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

NYT had interesting piece that ideology drives scientific denial:

• Dr. Oreskes’s (who researched scientific denialists) approach has been to dig deeply into the history of climate change denial, documenting its links to other episodes in which critics challenged a developing scientific consensus.

• Her core discovery, made with a co-author, Erik M. Conway, was twofold. They reported that dubious tactics had been used over decades to cast doubt on scientific findings relating to subjects like acid rain, the ozone shield, tobacco smoke and climate change. And most surprisingly, in each case, the tactics were employed by the same group of people.

• The central players were serious scientists who had major career triumphs during the Cold War, but in subsequent years apparently came to equate environmentalism with socialism, and government regulation with tyranny.

• In a 2010 book, Dr. Oreskes and Dr. Conway called these men “Merchants of Doubt,” and this spring the book became a documentary film, by Robert Kenner. At the heart of both works is a description of methods that were honed by the tobacco industry in the 1960s and have since been employed to cast doubt on just about any science being cited to support new government regulations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/science/naomi-oreskes-a-lightning-rod-in-a-changing-climate.html

Cloudboy, come back and let's discuss this over genetically engineered corn muffins.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/17/the_anti-science_left_127012.html


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/17/2015 8:30:15 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

NYT had interesting piece that ideology drives scientific denial:

• Dr. Oreskes’s (who researched scientific denialists) approach has been to dig deeply into the history of climate change denial, documenting its links to other episodes in which critics challenged a developing scientific consensus.

• Her core discovery, made with a co-author, Erik M. Conway, was twofold. They reported that dubious tactics had been used over decades to cast doubt on scientific findings relating to subjects like acid rain, the ozone shield, tobacco smoke and climate change. And most surprisingly, in each case, the tactics were employed by the same group of people.

• The central players were serious scientists who had major career triumphs during the Cold War, but in subsequent years apparently came to equate environmentalism with socialism, and government regulation with tyranny.

• In a 2010 book, Dr. Oreskes and Dr. Conway called these men “Merchants of Doubt,” and this spring the book became a documentary film, by Robert Kenner. At the heart of both works is a description of methods that were honed by the tobacco industry in the 1960s and have since been employed to cast doubt on just about any science being cited to support new government regulations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/science/naomi-oreskes-a-lightning-rod-in-a-changing-climate.html

Cloudboy, did the NYT tell you that the the reason the scientists knew the environmentalists where lying was because all of the socialist politicos from behind the iron curtain went into the environmental movement when the wall came down and are now using that movement to spread socialism. The scientists should know shouldn't they? Are you a science denier? I mean, really Cloudboy, who are you going to believe, Al Gore or scientists.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 6/17/2015 8:32:56 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: I know Global Warming Again - 6/18/2015 12:02:00 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		An interview with Chevron's CEO. Think I like this guy.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chevron-ceo-on-oil-prices-technology-retaining-talent-2015-5

When you start from a policy point of view, you have to ask: What are your priorities? The overwhelming priority is to sustain the quality of life that we have and for most of the world to achieve some semblance of the life we have. With that as a background, fossil fuels are essential to our life. Then you say, "OK, what are the effects, and what should we do about them?" That's where we need to strike the balance.

My general view is before we can replace fossil fuels we are going to have to have an affordable alternative. There was a big study for Secretary Chu that laid out a blueprint. Don't spend a lot of money subsidizing technologies that are not going to solve the problem. Invest in early-stage technologies, and we've identified about a dozen of them that may produce a step change in technologies.

No. 1: Husband the scarce resources that you have carefully. No. 2: There is low-hanging fruit that is economic to do in the way of energy conservation that we can put in place today. [No. 3:] we are blessed in this country with natural gas. It is naturally displacing coal and so it's a blessing. Enable that development. I don't mean subsidize it, enable that development, and that right there gets the United States on a pretty strong pathway.

Every country has its own energy objectives. I think most countries are going to continue, certainly in Asia and Africa, the developing nations, are going to continue to produce fossil fuels for a long time because it's all they can afford. That's certainly what China is going to do. I think that it is becoming apparent that the cost of a rapid transition when you don't have an economic alternative is going to be expensive. In Germany and Denmark electricity costs are triple the average in the United States.

If policymakers in our country want to impose additional costs on American consumers and business, just be transparent about it and tell the American people what the benefit is going to be versus the costs. What I think we tend to not do well in this country is talk candidly about those choices that we're making.

[For example,] in the Northeast, if you're going to shut down coal plants and nuclear plants, you better build pipelines through the Northeast so you can get natural gas in, right?

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 120
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