quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50
I don't have a problem with people living "off the grid" as far as electricity is concerned, but I do have mixed feelings about how they manage their water supply. I say "mixed" feelings because I'm not going to say that I know very much about how easy it is for someone to live off rainwater and still not be at risk for a lot of diseases. If this woman knows what she's doing and isn't going to sue anyone if she makes herself sick, and she's not at risk for making anyone else sick because of her lifestyle....then let have at it.

There are appropriate ways to do this stuff but she so wasn't using them:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-07-10/off-the-grid-in-florida-robin-speronis-fights-municipal-code#p2
Cape Coral argued that it had nothing against Speronis going off grid, only with how she’d done so. “There are an awful lot of alternatives out there that meet code,” says Frank Cassidy, the city’s code compliance division manager. “The problem is that she is not using those methods.” He ticked off a litany of municipal resources for cisterns, composting toilets, retrofit grants, equipment, housing assistance, and programs to sell excess solar power to the grid.

She initially was stealing use of city sewer and polluting it with silver on account of her particular beliefs on how water should be purified. After she bragged about doing that whole thing on FOX the city shut that down and she switched to throwing her turds in the trash which also is obviously not ok.

quote:

Cape Coral argued that it had nothing against Speronis going off grid, only with how she’d done so. “There are an awful lot of alternatives out there that meet code,” says Frank Cassidy, the city’s code compliance division manager. “The problem is that she is not using those methods.” He ticked off a litany of municipal resources for cisterns, composting toilets, retrofit grants, equipment, housing assistance, and programs to sell excess solar power to the grid. “The city has the health, welfare, and safety of all its citizens to consider,” says Rana Erbrick, the city council member for Speronis’s district. “But there also comes a point where you gotta do what you gotta do to protect the integrity of the system.”

[Emphasis for what was omitted, and red for the real reason, *force her to pay for products and services she does not want to use*]



Then there is this:

Statements like that inflamed the citizens of Cape Coral, many of whom were rooting for their local nonconformist. Strangers began to stop her on the street or honk in support as they drove past her yard. While the city had certain aspects of the law behind it, all local residents saw was a widow living alone in a poor part of town getting steamrollered by the government.

quote:

Speronis’s “test case for something” quickly escalated. Fox continued to run segments on her, gleefully accusing the city of retaliating against her after seeing its report.

1) City representatives offered a series of unconvincing denials,
2) first saying they believed the home was vacant,
3) then citing an open compliance violation—mulch blocking the municipal right-of-way—and
4) finally a “citizen complaint.”

5) Records, however, show the complaint had come from a city employee who had watched the show and alerted his colleagues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Hmm.... seems you cut your quote a little short. Why the need for slight of hand?

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-07-10/off-the-grid-in-florida-robin-speronis-fights-municipal-code#p1
Near the end of the broadcast, Fernandez noted that Speronis’s rudimentary setup violated “most codes and ordinances” in Cape Coral and that “anyone caught living in such a home could be forcibly removed.”

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

throwing her turds in the trash which also is obviously not ok.

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ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

tj.............there are a couple of places over here that already specialise in shipping container homes and extensions to home. Very interesting and very affordable; especially if you use insulated reefers.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

throwing her turds in the trash which also is obviously not ok.

isnt that what most pet owners do with their pet's turds? a turd is a turd..

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

Catching up on the thread diatribes after a hectic week. A few comments on this thread for the last few days.

Legality of catching rainwater... Go back to the 1950s and earlier; it was common practice to have house guttering discharge to a rain barrel. This was a ready source of "soft" water for clothes washing when wells and municipal water supplies were high in mineral content. The problem was a rain barrel is an excellent breeding ground for mosquitoes. In the 1960s major inroads into eradicating insect born disease were made and one of those reason was making rainwater collection in municipalities against building code to prevent mosquito breeding. So, yes, collecting rainwater is against the law in many places and Cape Coral, Florida is one of those.

Cape Coral is one of those bedroom communities with way to many "covenants" tied to the deed. When I lived in Fort Myers; I looked at houses in Cape Coral and found neighborhoods where owning a motorcycle was forbidden. And boats, trailers, RVs, could not be visible from the street at any time if you had one on your property there. Yep, the cited news story is from an enclave of nanny state busy bodies.

Off the grid... If you are selling excess power from your solar array; is that really off the grid?

Fine print in deeds... often there is a codicil mentioning that water rights for the property are often relinquished to a municipality or community water supply. That often includes both groundwater and subsurface water.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

throwing her turds in the trash which also is obviously not ok.

isnt that what most pet owners do with their pet's turds? a turd is a turd..

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

She is probably using a camp toilet. Those plastic bag under the seat things have been around as "camping equipment" for years.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/go-anywhere-portable-toilet/23903

Now if you go back to the days of the "thunder mug" under the bed.. you went out and buried the contents in a corner of the garden every morning.

quote:

Her only connection to city services was the sewer: She flushed waste down the toilet, again with rainwater.

quote:

Liza Fernandez, a reporter for WFTX, the local Fox (FOX) affiliate, decided to do a story on her. Near the end of the broadcast, Fernandez noted that Speronis’s rudimentary setup violated “most codes and ordinances” in Cape Coral and that “anyone caught living in such a home could be forcibly removed.”

quote:

Estimates of the national off-the-grid population are vague, hovering between 180,000 and 250,000, almost entirely in rural settings where public utilities—and government oversight—are in short supply

quote:

Sometimes the grid just won’t let you go. Lawsuits with homeowner associations are commonplace, as are disputes with local government. James and Frances Babb, residents of Clarkson Valley, Mo., for example, have been battling authorities for years over permits to install solar panels that the city has refused to grant, citing construction and fire safety issues.

quote:

The officer, taking note of the water barrels and severed power lines, stuck a placard on the door declaring the property unfit for human habitation. “Any person entering this property without official authorization,” it read, “is subject to removal and/or arrest.”

quote:

Buildings Unfit for Human Habitation

Our Buildings Unfit for Human Habitation ordinance regulates whether a building has deteriorated so much that it is unfit for a person to live in it. We consider a building to be unfit for human habitation when it threatens public safety and the cost to repair it would be more than 50 percent of the cost to replace it. We hold a hearing to determine whether a building is unfit, and can order its repair or demolition.

quote:

Uninhabitable living conditions Law & Legal Definition

There are no strict legal definitions for the term uninhabitable living conditions. Generally speaking it is some condition that makes the living in a home or premises impossible. Aesthetics such as an ugly paint color or worn carpet generally do not render a property unihabitable. Defects or conditions such as a missing window, broken front security gate, absence of deadbolt locks on exterior doors, a defective electrical outlet, something unhealthy like cockroaches or mold, dangerous criminal activity particularly gangs, drugs and burglaries, an unlit stairway , stagnant swimming pool, an inefficient heater or air conditioner, low water pressure, slow drain or even a bad smell, or noise can render a place uninhabitable. In other words technical violation like using the wrong type of screw would not be making a house uninhabitable. Usually the term has significance in a landlord tenant relationship. The rented premises must always meet minimum standards of habitability including compliance with applicable building codes.

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ORIGINAL: tj444
isnt that what most pet owners do with their pet's turds? a turd is a turd..

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
isnt that what most pet owners do with their pet's turds? a turd is a turd..

There are significant differences. If for instance you were to drink water contaminated by a dog turd from a dog with hepatitis you would not get hepatitis (and vice versa). Because humans and dogs are not susceptible to the same strains of hepatitis.

If however you're drinking water contaminated by a human turd from a human with hepatitis, congratulations you now have hepatitis.

quote:

first the constitution does not stop them from making 'any' law what so ever,

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
isnt that what most pet owners do with their pet's turds? a turd is a turd..

There are significant differences. If for instance you were to drink water contaminated by a dog turd from a dog with hepatitis you would not get hepatitis (and vice versa). Because humans and dogs are not susceptible to the same strains of hepatitis.

If however you're drinking water contaminated by a human turd from a human with hepatitis, congratulations you now have hepatitis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
isnt that what most pet owners do with their pet's turds? a turd is a turd..

There are significant differences. If for instance you were to drink water contaminated by a dog turd from a dog with hepatitis you would not get hepatitis (and vice versa). Because humans and dogs are not susceptible to the same strains of hepatitis.

If however you're drinking water contaminated by a human turd from a human with hepatitis, congratulations you now have hepatitis.

I wasnt thinking about hepatitis.. I was thinking about e. coli and salmonella since so many food recalls (& sicknesses and deaths) involve those diseases especially.. and mostly coming from animal feces...

http://foodsafety.news21.com/2011/safety/inspection/feces/

http://listverse.com/2013/06/21/10-foods-you-eat-that-all-contain-feces/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Bingo!

Thats precisely what this is about. "charging you"

They [government] builds this gigantic infrastructure then write code to 'force' people to use it and pay for it. [monopoly]

If you dont they toss your ass out to the curb despite its YOUR BOUGHT AND PAID FOR HOME while singing god Bless America....land of the FREE!

That is exactly what they are doing to this woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
An where are those fire hydrants located? Outside the house of the person bitching about not wanting to have 'on grid' water system. In the unlikely event that the fire fighters are not able to get the fire hydrant operational, they do get creative on dealing with the problem until a better option presents itself.

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

There is a bit of confused thinking going on here. Building codes are NOT the same everywhere. Location and soil conditions vary as to building codes. And there are community codes that, at some point in time, were voted in and became law. Municipal water systems and municipal sewer systems are prime examples. At some point, it was voted in that there would be city systems and all buildings in the city would be connected to the city system. If you don't want to be connected to the city system; you buy property out in the county were you are responsible for your own water and sewer treatment. But municipal, or your own system, must conform to minimum standards set by the state to assure you aren't posing a health hazard to your neighbors. You don't just pump out of the river upstream of your house and discharge the toilet downriver; that went out in the 1930s. (I think it was the Health Act of 1934 but I may misremember)

The original point was from a news story from Cape Coral, Florida. Just from a health standpoint a person composting human waste and drinking shallow well water is creating a health hazard with the soil conditions there. On a shell limestone base (most of Florida), you can sink a shallow well for irrigation with a hammer and lengths of PVC pipe. A common septic system or a compost heap will contaminate the shallow water aquifer almost instantly. Do you want to be irrigating your lawn or veggie patch with your neighbors feces? If she wants to be off the grid; she needs to be on five acres out in the boonies and not in a suburban bedroom community. That is what Cape Coral is; a bedroom community for the Fort Myers area.

On a humorous side; there are a lot of retired engineers in that area. You should see the golf cart races to the Dunkin Donut shop every morning from the retirement community (must be over 50 to live there, deed covenant). Ever see a souped up by NASA engineer electric golf cart burn rubber for a whole block?