Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC Page: <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 8:23:48 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I'm
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
OK then let me ask you a question: Is a solution to the problem of gun violence possible given the current political realities and the 2nd Amendment?
If you feel a solution is possible, please outline it. If you feel a solution is not possible at the moment, what needs to change in order to arrive at and implement a solution?


The solution you are promoting is not an option with the 2nd Amendment in place. Repealing the 2nd Amendment, would be the only way to even come close to allowing that to happen, and I don't know that that a possibility at this point.

The issue in this case wasn't a gun. It was "gun violence" only because he used a gun. He was likely to have perpetrated his act in another manner, as he saw killing these people as being his part to prevent "black people" from pulling the "white race" down. He wanted to foment a civil war with the desired goal of black people being expelled from America. Someone with that much hate is going to find a way to do what he thinks is necessary, or what needs to be done to perform his role/duty.

Racism was the cause of this shooting. If not for the racism, it wouldn't have happened. This dickhead planned and calculated his actions. A gun was one way to do it, but certainly not the only way. To think this wouldn't have happened if only dickhead hadn't gotten a gun, isn't really going to help prevent further instances of this event.

You see a gun involved, and that's what you seek to limit. I see a racist attack, and that is what I wish to limit.



Wouldn't this race war thing be eerily similar to the Manson murders ?

If we fall into it, yes.


I'm not sure what you mean Bama, as I recall, Manson had some illusion that the murders he sent his minions out to commit would get blamed on blacks and start a race war.

Manson called it Helter Skeltor. He and his followers were going to hide in a cave in the Mojave Desert until it was over and then come out and rule. He claimed the Beatles song of that name was in praise of him.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 301
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 8:27:38 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

It never ends.


This is why these threads are so important...we are hoping to talk some sense into the Bama's and lovemuffin's of this world...and in the doing receive some of the torture we enjoy...... you know banging head against the wall and such.

Butch


What sense ? As soon as one of you guys comes up with something sensible, I'm all ears. Stop banging your head, you might make more sense 😎

People may not believe it but I've said for years if the left ever came up with something that would work in the real world is get behind it. But, minding that every law created necessarily takes away liberty, I've never seen a liberal law work.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 6/21/2015 8:46:48 AM >

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 8:32:19 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		It is just that subs come from a galaxy far away and will never comprehend Earth people.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 8:43:06 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

It never ends.


This is why these threads are so important...we are hoping to talk some sense into the Bama's and lovemuffin's of this world...and in the doing receive some of the torture we enjoy...... you know banging head against the wall and such.

Butch


What sense ? As soon as one of you guys comes up with something sensible, I'm all ears. Stop banging your head, you might make more sense 😎

People may not believe it but I've said for years if the left ever came up with something that would work in the real world is get behind it. But, minding that ever law created necessarily takes away liberty, I've never seen a liberal law work.


Liberals against liberty

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 304
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 8:56:46 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
43 posts on this single thread, and all you can talk about is what's important to you (your pet issues that you attach to everything.)

You are also 0-43 in the empathy and concern department.

Amazing.

Solutions / ideas? Zero (0).

Historical analysis: none (zip)

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:01:34 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


43 posts on this single thread, and all you can talk about is what's important to you (your pet issues that you attach to everything.)

You are also 0-43 in the empathy and concern department.

Amazing.

Solutions / ideas? Zero (0).

Historical analysis: none (zip)

Tell me what freedom, what liberty you want the government to take from us now? Tell me how in a country of over 300 million people you can guarantee that by taking that freedom this sort of thing won't happen the next time a nut case goes off his meds? Tell me what the fairy dust is directing you to take from the people?

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:05:19 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


43 posts on this single thread, and all you can talk about is what's important to you (your pet issues that you attach to everything.)

You are also 0-43 in the empathy and concern department.

Amazing.

Solutions / ideas? Zero (0).

Historical analysis: none (zip)


In all of these threads all YOU ever do is talk about ME

So...

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:16:14 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just wondering... do you think holding someone responsible in the possession and use of a weapon as a " taking away of a freedom"?

If there were strong laws requiring the same background checks at gun shows as when buying a weapons at your neighborhood dealer....would that be taking away freedom?

If there were strong laws allowing the prosecution of a gun owner for negligence if a child or innocent is killed or wounded by the careless storage of a weapon... would that be " taking away a freedom"

If there were strong laws governing the possession of weapons by those deemed mentally incompetent... and laws requiring a mental examination and certification before allowed to possess weapons?... would that be taking away freedoms.

If you think any of the above is taking away a freedom then you must believe you have freedom to be criminally careless with a killing weapon... have the freedom to own a weapon if mentally incompetent...have the freedom to own a weapon with no background check of any kind.

If these are the freedoms you desire than you are not truly wanting to solve the problems with guns in America.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/21/2015 9:17:34 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 308
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:17:23 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

where is the proof for that?



Dont be silly, you got to arm yourself to stop yourself getting shot. Who on earth thinks that you can just walk about freely, either in the shops, at school or at church....... Yeah I know Lucy I know.


There is no proof, he has never shown a link, or factual evidence. Its all bullshit.


Its hard not being able to arm myself against terrorists who blow things up. Its been so tough for me without a gun to make me feel brave
I'll just wring my hands and pretend that theres nothing to be done.
We can nuke the mooozelems, we can build a fence across the border for the illegals, we can blame the blacks...for everything we cant blame the liberals on. And its a tragedy, but theres nothing to be done




_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:33:01 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Make that 44 posts and counting.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:35:24 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Make that 44 posts and counting.


Yeah, but who is keeping track. Its not like anyone would stalk me here

Thats against TOS.

Who would be that stupid?







< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/21/2015 9:45:40 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 311
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:37:03 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering... do you think holding someone responsible in the possession and use of a weapon as a " taking away of a freedom"?

If there were strong laws requiring the same background checks at gun shows as when buying a weapons at your neighborhood dealer....would that be taking away freedom?

If there were strong laws allowing the prosecution of a gun owner for negligence if a child or innocent is killed or wounded by the careless storage of a weapon... would that be " taking away a freedom"

If there were strong laws governing the possession of weapons by those deemed mentally incompetent... and laws requiring a mental examination and certification before allowed to possess weapons?... would that be taking away freedoms.

If you think any of the above is taking away a freedom then you must believe you have freedom to be criminally careless with a killing weapon... have the freedom to own a weapon if mentally incompetent...have the freedom to own a weapon with no background check of any kind.

If these are the freedoms you desire than you are not truly wanting to solve the problems with guns in America.

There are strong laws against killing people...with anything.

There are strong laws against mentally unstable people or drug users owning guns.

Would you have your mental competence tested to become public record to drive a car. Would you give the government, someone like tweaka, the power to decide what is mentally competent enough to own a gun?

There are laws holding people responsible for how they possess guns and if they allow guns to be picked up by children. In fact, it is illigal for any gun store in California not to post those laws very visibly near the gun racks.

In this state there is no gun show loop hole as in many other states. Yet, yes, I am against them. I can remember, one of my earliest memories, my father had ordered a shotgun through the mail and watching my father take it out of the box and assemble it. Soon thereafter he took me hunting for the first time. That was pre-1968 gun control act. I still have that shotgun and it hasn't killed anybody in all these years and not one government agency had to approve its sale or inheritance to me.

Gun show loop holes don't exist for dealers. Every dealer at a gun show has to run his sales through a background check. It only exists between private individuals. Tell me how that's going to be policed? I've sat in hunting camps and seen guns others had and I wanted or they've seen mine and they wanted it. In states where it's legal we made deals. How are you going to police that? I'll tell you how, honest citiciens then take the guns to a registered dealer and register the sale. There is not going to be one crook who will do that and adding that little crime on top of a murder charge for this incompetent fool is not going to make his term in jail any longer. It's a farce. It's a farce to make you feel good that your doing something while all you are really doing is giving the government more of the people's liberty.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 6/21/2015 9:38:45 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 312
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 9:38:50 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering... do you think holding someone responsible in the possession and use of a weapon as a " taking away of a freedom"?

If there were strong laws requiring the same background checks at gun shows as when buying a weapons at your neighborhood dealer....would that be taking away freedom?

If there were strong laws allowing the prosecution of a gun owner for negligence if a child or innocent is killed or wounded by the careless storage of a weapon... would that be " taking away a freedom"

If there were strong laws governing the possession of weapons by those deemed mentally incompetent... and laws requiring a mental examination and certification before allowed to possess weapons?... would that be taking away freedoms.

If you think any of the above is taking away a freedom then you must believe you have freedom to be criminally careless with a killing weapon... have the freedom to own a weapon if mentally incompetent...have the freedom to own a weapon with no background check of any kind.

If these are the freedoms you desire than you are not truly wanting to solve the problems with guns in America.


Would it also be alright with you to remove the first amendment a little at a time, until in all practicality it no longer exists?

How about the rest of the constitution. Do you think that maybe we could fix all of our problems that way, just like they did in North Korea, and many of these other places where everyone is always perfectly safe from everything

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:09:54 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Why bring up strawman arguments... we are talking guns and guns only...If you think we need mental competency tests to drive cars I'd be all for it... but we are not discussing that.

There is no federal law or penalty specially for the accidental killing or maiming of a child by a gun owner... There is no such law in Missouri... there needs to be don't you think? If there were direct penalties for killing your son or daughter or neighbors child through negligence then i believe owners would be more careful and aware.

So you are against ANY and ALL gun owners needing a background check before owning a weapon... that is what you are saying... and you think this is responsible?

You are not directly answering my questions...If I decide to sell a gun as an individual at a gun show, the sponsor of the show could very easily be required to set up a background check just as a dealer is required... It is not hard. The same with the private sale of a weapon... all that would be required is for the buyer to have to register his or her weapon to be legal... If it were a child with the permission of a parent than all that would be required is a training class for weapon use and safety.

I think it is not the registration process that most or against but the time and cost involved.. Is taking a few weeks and a few dollars such a big sacrifice to endure to at least somewhat assure competent gun ownership?

What I proposed will not of course stop the insane from killing as in this thread... but it would make it harder for them... It will not prevent the tragedies of accidental killings and injuries... but it could reduce the number...The proper storage of weapons will not keep them out of the hands of criminals... but it would make them harder to steal and perhaps slow down the proliferation of weapons among criminals.

It is not so much the type of law... or the enforcement of a law... but the refusal for gun owners to even consider changing existing laws... mandating existing laws enforcement... or ... replacing old legislation with new to address an obvious problem with guns in America.

I hear you and Bama and others say they are for reasonable laws on gun ownership but never have I heard either of you join into a discussion of laws that would work for you... All I ever here is why others suggestions would not work.

Don't get me wrong here... unlike many I am for gun ownership... I am a gun owner myself... but I do see a problem and I am afraid if we, gun owners, do not demand responsible ownership with strong laws to guarantee this then we may face a backlash we will not like.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/21/2015 10:39:08 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:16:12 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sanity if all the simple laws I proposed were law it would not infringe on your right to own a weapon... so there is no chipping away at any rights... It is simply a way to assure that weapons are owned by responsible people... PERIOD.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:38:38 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sanity if all the simple laws I proposed were law it would not infringe on your right to own a weapon... so there is no chipping away at any rights... It is simply a way to assure that weapons are owned by responsible people... PERIOD.

Butch


It doesnt matter how often you tell yourself that, its still a lie

Even if you consider it a little white lie "for the children" its still a lie

Once the 2nd amendment is removed there will still be heinous crimes and other rights to lie to yourself about chipping away at "for the children"

And your premise is flawed, the problem isnt guns. The problem is that people think for themselves, and some people think bad thoughts

Maybe they get information on the Internet that makes them snap, just like in Roofs case. So what is your solution to that, Butch? Eliminate Internet access, news and information access, one little part at a time?

Then when that doesnt make everyone perfectly safe all of the time, begin chipping away at free speech and assembly?

Its always just one more thing, because we arent all perfectly safe yet.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/21/2015 10:43:08 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:38:56 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why bring up strawman arguments... we are talking guns and guns only...If you think we need mental competency tests to drive cars I'd be all for it... but we are not discussing that.

There is no federal law or penalty specially for the killing or maiming of a child by a gun owner... There is no such law in Missouri... there needs to be don't you think? If there were direct penalties for killing your son or daughter or neighbors child through negligence then i believe owners would be more careful and aware.

So you are against ANY and ALL gun owners needing a background check before owning a weapon... that is what you are saying... and you think this is responsible?

You are not directly answering my questions...If I decide to sell a gun as an individual at a gun show, the sponsor of the show could very easily be required to set up a background check just as a dealer is required... It is not hard. The same with the private sale of a weapon... all that would be required is for the buyer to have to register his or her weapon to be legal... If it were a child with the permission of a parent than all that would be required is a training class for weapon use and safety.

I think it is not the registration process that most or against but the time and cost involved.. Is taking a few weeks and a few dollars such a big sacrifice to endure to at least somewhat assure competent gun ownership?

What I proposed will not of course stop the insane from killing as in this thread... but it would make it harder for them... It will not prevent the tragedies of accidental killings and injuries... but it could reduce the number...The proper storage of weapons will not keep them out of the hands of criminals... but it would make them harder to steal and perhaps slow down the proliferation of weapons among criminals.

It is not so much the type of law... or the enforcement of a law... but the refusal for gun owners to even consider changing existing laws... mandating existing laws enforcement... or ... replacing old legislation with new to address an obvious problem with guns in America.

I hear you and Bama and others say they are for reasonable laws on gun ownership but never have I heard either of you join into a discussion of laws that would work for you... All I ever here is why others suggestions would not work.

Don't get me wrong here... unlike many I am for gun ownership... I am a gun owner myself... but I do see a problem and I am afraid if we, gun owners, do not demand responsible ownership with strong laws to guarantee this then we may face a backlash we will not like.

Butch

First off, this is not a gun thread and I refuse to make it one. It's about a crazy person killing people.

Second, in California there are laws that put you in prison for allowing a child access to a gun with which it does damage or breaks the law. It may be reasonable for a State to enact such laws. I find it very unreasonable for the Feds. You should express your concern to your state rep. Like I said, not only is there that law here, legally it has to be posted, in huge font, in every gun store.

If, as you say you'd set up a booth to register private party transactions at a gun show, I'd just step outside. So all you've done is made responsible citizens into criminals. I can't agree.

As to reasonable gun ownership laws, start a thread. I'll contribute. Keep in mind, just so the moderator doesn't feel bad, make the thread very tightly worded so it is only about a discussion of reasonable laws.

Proper storage of guns, again in California before I take a gun home I have to demonstrate I have a gun safe or I have to buy a gun lock and demonstrate to the gun dealer I know how to use it. I can't leave the store with a gun without doing one or the other. State law, if you feel your state should have such a law, have at it. No sense in Feds being involved.

Your reference to "strong" laws, pardon me, is a joke. Guns laws aren't enforced now and I believe it's because anti-gun people don't want the enforced so they can use situations like this one to make more laws they won't enforce and only an honest citizen will observe. I don't agree with the state entrapping and making citizens criminals for your political beliefs.

I don't know who you are saying are gun owners that refuse sensible laws. The NRA and every gun owner I know agrees there should be sensible laws. But, laws that only infringe on liberty and don't do a damn thing else I don't consider sensible.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:41:27 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You are right about turning this to a gun thread...we can continue our discussion where appropriate... I hope to read some of your ideas on solving the problems we have have with gun violence.... Just remember you or your child can be killed by a negligent gun owner from Missouri... When talking laws they should be federal not state.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/21/2015 10:43:18 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:43:40 AM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sanity if all the simple laws I proposed were law it would not infringe on your right to own a weapon... so there is no chipping away at any rights... It is simply a way to assure that weapons are owned by responsible people... PERIOD.

Butch

Let me tell you about a "sensible" sensible law. In California there is a ten day waiting period, called a cooling off period, before you can take a gun home. It's sensible isn't it, to prevent me from being mad and shooting my object of anger. California refuses to do an instant check.

Well, recently I've sold several of my guns. Before I started selling I, give or take, owned 100 or so guns. I'm probably around sixty or so now. What the fuck does a ten day waiting period to cool off have any meaning to me?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC - 6/21/2015 10:59:02 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

A few snippets from a USA Today article about the crime. What exactly do you want to change about the culture described?

quote:

"You took something really precious away from me, I will never talk to her again, never hold her again, but I forgive you," said the daughter of one of the victims, Ethel Lance. "You hurt me, you hurt a lot of people but God forgive you and I forgive you..."

She said her sister "taught me me that we are the family that love built, we have no room for hate, so we have to forgive..."


Yeah, no. Obviously these people aren't really black.



K.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 320
Page:   <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Unidentified Man attacks Black Church in SC Page: <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094