Zonie63
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Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I think the quote from the Los Angeles Police Captain speaks volumes about the overall mentality and culture within police departments. This idea that "officers have complete discretion" is where most of these problems emanate from. In this traffic stop, the only pretext the officer had to pull her over was failure to signal. So, his whole purpose in this instance was to cite the driver for failure to signal. Anything he did which deviated from that specific purpose was improper. He should have just written the ticket and kept his mouth shut, so it's his behavior which was out of line. But if Police Captains and others in the field believe they have "complete discretion" to do things beyond the scope of their job, then it seems that the source of this problem is very much embedded and deep-seated in the mindsets of our law enforcement community.
Sorry. That's not quite right.
She failed to stop at a stop sign. She did a "rolling stop". Something that lots of people are guilty of. It drives me nuts (especially at a "four-way stop" intersection).
He turned around to follow her and possibly issue a warning (later on, in the video, he points her to his note pad and says: "You were getting a warning until you did all this" (or words to that effect). When she committed a second summons-worthy infraction (failure to properly signal a lane change), he hit the lights.
He was still well within policy for any police department of which I'm aware.
He took her credentials, asked her for a few minutes while he went back to his car and ran those credentials. At this point, obviously, her past history didn't come up (either because everything was satisfied, previously or because of an error) because he went back to her car with a written warning (as he later pointed out to her, while she was screaming about "all of this over a traffic signal" he said: "All of this over a warning").
When he asked if she was upset (which might have been him, throwing some itching powder into the situation), she started getting mouthy. That's when he asked her to put out her cigarette. She got even mouthier and was escalating the situation when he decided it was time to ensure his safety to the best of his ability.
When she refused to put out the cigarette (after him telling her, at least twice that it was a lawful order), was when he decided she needed to get out of the car; possibly still worried about that cigarette landing in his eye.
This situation could have ended in a written warning (which you can safely use to wipe your ass with no repercussions) and her, driving away. Instead, she had to get all mouthy and indignant and "know her rights".
Unfortunately, she didn't know them well enough.
Michael
I agree that there were a lot of things she could have done differently, too. But I was mainly referring to the circumstances that led to the escalation of the situation. Whether it was a stop sign or a turn signal violation - it's still a traffic related stop and might warrant a warning or citation. But there's no reason it has to be anything more than that. Maybe it's "within policy" or that they have "complete discretion," but maybe it's the policy that's the problem here.
Perhaps one solution would be to outline very strict and specific policies regarding what is acceptable for a police officer at a traffic stop, along with a public information campaign to inform citizens exactly what their rights are in that situation and make sure the cops know that the citizens know. As long as the rules are very clearly outlined and told to the public - just so there's no confusion or ambiguity about it in these situations. For one thing, it would definitely reduce the chances of cops being accused of racial profiling. The problem lies within a policy that gives officers too much "discretion," which leaves too much doubt as to their intentions and opens them up to these kinds of accusations.
Maybe she didn't know her rights well enough, and that's another aspect of this tragedy that should be addressed. But the cop didn't know either. He was just the one with the badge - the one who should have known better. But more than just a matter of rights, the police are public servants, and as such, the public has a right to demand that they be restrained and put under a tight leash. There needs to be stricter guidelines for cops, and severe penalties for failing to abide by those guidelines.
I'd like to see them impose a 5-minute rule. Once the cop pulls someone over, the clock starts ticking. If they can't get the ticket written in under 5 minutes, then the driver can drive off with no penalty - and the cop has to pay the fine for whatever moving violation the ticket was for. That'll keep them on task so as to avoid these unnecessary confrontations.
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RE: Sandra Bland / I will light you up. - 
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