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EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 1:48:18 AM   
KenDckey


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http://news.yahoo.com/video/state-emergency-colorado-over-toxic-012238515.html

Since the EPA created this emergency themselves

1. Should those involved be fined for the cleanup in the same manner as those in the civilian sector?
2. Should those involved be considered for criminal prosecution under the be a manager go to jail laws of OSHA?
3. Should the supervisors and above be investigated for criminal negligence in the training and supervision of subordinates?
4. Is the Administration trying to poison the people of the west who are generally more conservative, thus eliminating some problems.
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 1:56:52 AM   
KenDckey


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Maybe they are trying to run California completely out of water so that all the California business and people move to texas and take it over.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 3:46:58 AM   
epiphiny43


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Maybe people with an agenda should teach the EPA how to remove earth barriers in abandoned mines safely for exploration without being psychic to know what is behind the obstacle? Like all novel disasters, lessons will be learned, and new (More expensive) methods will be developed to do the task of exploring, sealing and remediating old mine environmental effects as best possible. Your tax dollars at work, trying to keep as much of America liveable as can be done after enterprising individuals seeking the American Dream (Wealth) created massive damage to soil, water and all the life depending on them by indiscriminate hard rock mining.
The whole of the eastern CO/Rockies watershed to the Mississippi is contaminated to varying degrees by leaking heavy metals and acids from mining that broke internal dykes separating weathered rock that has been neutralizing since the end of the last Ice Age, exposing new acid rock and heavy metals to water entry and drainage now starting that process in new ground. Their massive surface tailings are even worse, as no effort was made to seal any of it from weathering, now ruining local and downstream watersheds and acquifers. Toxic water now extends into Oklahoma.
The Western Slope of the Rockies feeding the Colorado river is just the same. People looking for wealth in ignorance have restarted a thousands of years long process of weathering out massive amounts of internal earth in our mountains. Modern corporations Know of the issues and do all in human powers to obfuscate the issue or get sweetheart deals protecting them from adequate isolation of surface tailings or totally predictable drainage from modern mines doing the same as the early years of hard rock mining accomplished. This all is Why the EPA is exploring abandoned mines, not without risk to the workers and the current environment.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 8/11/2015 3:53:49 AM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 5:05:16 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

Maybe people with an agenda should teach the EPA how to remove earth barriers in abandoned mines safely for exploration without being psychic to know what is behind the obstacle? Like all novel disasters, lessons will be learned, and new (More expensive) methods will be developed to do the task of exploring, sealing and remediating old mine environmental effects as best possible. Your tax dollars at work, trying to keep as much of America liveable as can be done after enterprising individuals seeking the American Dream (Wealth) created massive damage to soil, water and all the life depending on them by indiscriminate hard rock mining.
The whole of the eastern CO/Rockies watershed to the Mississippi is contaminated to varying degrees by leaking heavy metals and acids from mining that broke internal dykes separating weathered rock that has been neutralizing since the end of the last Ice Age, exposing new acid rock and heavy metals to water entry and drainage now starting that process in new ground. Their massive surface tailings are even worse, as no effort was made to seal any of it from weathering, now ruining local and downstream watersheds and acquifers. Toxic water now extends into Oklahoma.
The Western Slope of the Rockies feeding the Colorado river is just the same. People looking for wealth in ignorance have restarted a thousands of years long process of weathering out massive amounts of internal earth in our mountains. Modern corporations Know of the issues and do all in human powers to obfuscate the issue or get sweetheart deals protecting them from adequate isolation of surface tailings or totally predictable drainage from modern mines doing the same as the early years of hard rock mining accomplished. This all is Why the EPA is exploring abandoned mines, not without risk to the workers and the current environment.

Exactly
Nobody gives a shit about how the mine was dangerous as hell but oooooh the EPA caused it.

EPA Bad for not knowing how dangerous it is...
the "CLOSE Em Down". idiots know nothing.

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(in reply to epiphiny43)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 5:34:58 AM   
bossman777


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Why anyone trusts the government to competently handle dangerous materials is beyond me. Just wait til the Hanford Nuclear Site goes up. http://koin.com/2014/04/24/6-things-know-hanfords-nuclear-waste/

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 5:37:47 AM   
Lucylastic


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Why anyone believes that businesses are trustworthy in their hazardous waste disposal, is way beyond me.


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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 5:50:51 AM   
bossman777


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I'll tell you why Lucy, it's called liability. Private businesses get sued and lose money, lose jobs, lose contracts, lose land. The feds? Nothing happens to them, except maybe a bigger budget next year.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 7:35:06 AM   
CreativeDominant


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I love how people want to look at what mining interests did 125 years ago, when they had no laws governing the environment and little knowledge of the same they were doing for the future and try to compare that to what the EPA should know now...120 years later and them being the same agency that fines companies and individuals for crecreating environmental issues.

(in reply to bossman777)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 8:10:30 AM   
MrRodgers


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Well we know one thing, as long as such mining continues to be a real profit center and knowing the EPA can't hit us too hard...we'll be alright. Fuck the water. Cleaning it up it what taxpayers are for.

Shortest list in the world ? List of those sent to jail and/or fined for any such 'civil/criminal' convictions as described in the above.





(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 8:45:53 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Exactly
Nobody gives a shit about how the mine was dangerous as hell but oooooh the EPA caused it.

EPA Bad for not knowing how dangerous it is...
the "CLOSE Em Down". idiots know nothing.


She angrily typed, on her computer made of metal and plastic...

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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 8:50:38 AM   
KenDckey


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I'll give you one How's that?

http://www.safetynewsalert.com/plant-manager-sentenced-to-prison-for-safety-and-environmental-violations/

A fair overview

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/%22Be+a+manager%2c+go+to+jail%22%3a+coping+with+a+new+type+of+law.-a015237692



< Message edited by KenDckey -- 8/11/2015 8:52:29 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 8:58:25 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Well we know one thing, as long as such mining continues to be a real profit center and knowing the EPA can't hit us too hard...we'll be alright. Fuck the water. Cleaning it up it what taxpayers are for.

Shortest list in the world ? List of those sent to jail and/or fined for any such 'civil/criminal' convictions as described in the above.

Hmmmm...And yet:

(CNSNews.com) – The Environmental Protection Agency collected [bold]$252 million in civil and criminal penalties in fiscal year 2012 – an all-time record amount[/bold], and [bold]more than twice the $168 million assessed in fiscal 2011[/bold], according to the agency’s annual enforcement results.
The agency touted the fiscal 2012 fines and other enforcement actions in a Dec. 17 news release, calling them the result of “vigorous enforcement.”

“Enforcement plays a vital role in protecting communities from harmful pollution,” said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for EPA’s Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance.

“We are using vigorous enforcement, as well as innovations in monitoring and transparency, to reduce pollution violations, protect and empower communities and focus on the environmental problems that matter most,” she said.

The EPA said the $252 million in penalties was “assessed to deter pollution.” And it says 6.6 billion pounds of pollution and hazardous waste were “reduced, eliminated, properly disposed of or treated” as a result of its enforcement actions.

In addition to the fines, the EPA directed various environmental offenders to spend $44 million on remedial projects, such as installing pollution controls. That's up from an estimated $25 million in supplemental environmental projects in fiscal 2011.

Most of EPA’s enforcement actions stem from violations of the Clean Water and Clean Air Acts, but the agency also enforces thousands of lesser-known rules and regulations.

For example, in the past year, school bus contractors have been fined more than $400,000 for “excessive idling,” and landlords have been penalized more than $40,000 for failing to hand out “EPA-approved” pamphlets on the dangers of lead-based paint.

Among its accomplishments in fiscal 2012, the EPA also touted its advancement of “environmental justice,” which includes “fenceline monitors” to detect pollution that may drift into nearby neighborhoods. The EPA requires companies to make the data available online so the public can track the emissions.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/epa-levied-record-252-million-fines-2012

And in 2013:
Environmental Protection Agency investigations yielded more than $5.6 billion in criminal and civil penalties over the past year, the agency said Friday.

An annual report containing enforcement and compliance totals from fiscal 2013 shows roughly $4.5 billion worth of fines, restitution and court-ordered environmental projects linked to criminal cases.

Civil penalties surpassed $1.1 billion, according to the report.

“Our enforcement work over the past year reflects our focus on the biggest violators and the cases that make the most difference in protecting American communities from pollution,” assistant EPA Administrator Cynthia Giles said in a written statement accompanying the report.

The bulk of the money stems from the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill off the Gulf Coast. Cases filed against BP and other defendants as a result of the spill generated more than $3.7 billion for impacted Gulf states and communities, according to the EPA.

Wal-Mart paid more than $80 million in fines and penalties for mishandling pesticides and hazardous waste. The company has also agreed to implement new waste handling systems and a new training program.

In the largest single-site pollution settlement in U.S. history, AVX Corp. committed to pay over $366 million to clean up contamination in Massachusetts’s New Bedford Harbor.

Other settlements involve toxic air from refineries and chemical plants, emissions from coal fired power plants and post-storm sewage discharged in cities around the country.

“Driving compliance and deterring violations in these sectors is a critical way EPA protects the air, water and land on which Americans depend, and creates a level playing field for companies that do the right thing,” said Giles, who heads the agency’s Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance.

http://thehill.com/regulation/energy-environment/197839-epa-touts-billions-in-fines

Finally, if you'd like to take a look:

http://cfpub.epa.gov/enforcement/cases/

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:09:48 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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The EPA is at war against Americans, American businesses, and especially consumers.

They should be a business partner. Instead, they are shifting the mission from ‘protect and serve’ to ‘punish and profit’

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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:15:30 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://news.yahoo.com/video/state-emergency-colorado-over-toxic-012238515.html

Since the EPA created this emergency themselves

1. Should those involved be fined for the cleanup in the same manner as those in the civilian sector?


Let's see if I understand this 'failure to engage one's brain": The US Government should fine the US Government. Or even 'better', the US Government should find the EPA, so that the EPA has....LESS...resources to keep others in-line when this and other clean up efforts break down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
2. Should those involved be considered for criminal prosecution under the be a manager go to jail laws of OSHA?


Why not ask the legal folks in government. Since they are the ones that have to prosecute the persons. As of right now, they are not going to do anything. The group doing the clean up notified all the proper agencies that might be able to do something about the situation in good faith.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
3. Should the supervisors and above be investigated for criminal negligence in the training and supervision of subordinates?


Yeah, because we, the United States, 'always' do that towards businesses, right? How many of those big shots in BP are in jail due to an oil rig exploding, sinking under the ocean, and causing weeks of oil slicks that ranged from Texas to Florida?

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
4. Is the Administration trying to poison the people of the west who are generally more conservative, thus eliminating some problems.


This sounds like an accusation. How about you put some.....EVIDENCE.....that shows....WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT......that the current administration created this problem to....ELIMINATED POLITICAL PEOPLE OPPOSED TO THEM. All those people in the current administration are afforded the same rights and protections as you are! That means you have the burden of evidence to produce of wrong doing.




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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:17:48 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Exactly
Nobody gives a shit about how the mine was dangerous as hell but oooooh the EPA caused it.

EPA Bad for not knowing how dangerous it is...
the "CLOSE Em Down". idiots know nothing.


She angrily typed, on her computer made of metal and plastic...

what has that got to do with the topic....why are you attacking me???


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(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:18:55 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Let's see if I understand this 'failure to engage one's brain": The US Government should fine the US Government. Or even 'better', the US Government should find the EPA, so that the EPA has....LESS...resources to keep others in-line when this and other clean up efforts break down.



Youve just gone a long way toward explaining the TEA Party ideology

Big government bureaucrats, are accountable to no one. And the bigger their screw ups, the more their budgets increase

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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:19:08 AM   
KenDckey


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Come on Sanity. You know that the most transparent administration in the history of the US would never allow such a thing. They don't profit, the people do because the funds they collect can be used for greater enforcement and larger punishment of business large and small. They only serve one master, the one at the top of the food chain, you know, the one where the buck stops at his desk.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:25:59 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Exactly
Nobody gives a shit about how the mine was dangerous as hell but oooooh the EPA caused it.

EPA Bad for not knowing how dangerous it is...
the "CLOSE Em Down". idiots know nothing.


She angrily typed, on her computer made of metal and plastic...

what has that got to do with the topic....why are you attacking me???



Pointing out the ironic humor of your post, as regards the topic isnt "attacking" you. If I were attacking you, it would look more like the leftist in the other thread who claimed he could imagine someone masturbating to the death of someone of a different race...

Breaking it down for you a little further, many parts of your computer are composed of materials that were mined. Its just always funny to see leftists hatefully attacking mining and "big oil" on products they wouldnt have without mining and "big oil"

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Lucylastic)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:27:49 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The EPA is at war against Americans, American businesses, and especially consumers.


No, its not you moron! That you lack an understanding of biology, chemistry, and physics shows to educated people your 'understanding' of the EPA's purpose. There is nothing sinister or evil about the organization. It many have its faults like any other organization, but its not trying to destroy America anywhere near the likes of the GOP......

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
They should be a business partner. Instead, they are shifting the mission from ‘protect and serve’ to ‘punish and profit’


No, the EPA would lost all credibility if it sided up with a business (private sector). Since its well documented and known that American businesses are not trustworthy at times. The EPA was created to protect the nation's air, water, and ground from harmful threats by businesses with sloppy clean up and shoddy regulations on handling dangerous substances. Want to see what happens to a nation that doesn't have a tough 'EPA' group? Go live in China or Russia.

We both know you could live in the more toxic areas of China and Russia. You'd make up a hundred half-ass excuses, so you would NEVER have to admit that the EPA does a pretty good job of keeping things 'good and safe' in The States! That I and others can see right through your bullshit.

Yes, the EPA has law enforcement powers to require American businesses live up to standards the American people have decided on as a society. Those powers also have 'teeth' to enforce those that break the law.


(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 9:32:59 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Come on Sanity. You know that the most transparent administration in the history of the US would never allow such a thing. They don't profit, the people do because the funds they collect can be used for greater enforcement and larger punishment of business large and small. They only serve one master, the one at the top of the food chain, you know, the one where the buck stops at his desk.


How about you go live in China or Russia with Sanity for a few years. Let us all know how 'amazing' those two nation's environmental standards are compared to the United States, OK?

The EPA serves the US Government. The US Government, serves the American people. This current president is more accountable and responsible with power than the last guy you and Sanity backed into public office. You can try all your petty attacks to diminish his efforts. And you will fail. Like you have been failing for the past seven years. Looking like morons for doing it too!


(in reply to KenDckey)
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