Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue Page: <<   < prev  13 14 [15] 16 17   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/27/2015 8:42:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The point is that the color of the seller is irrelevant yet you seem to think it is otherwise why have you brought this red herring to the table?


The point is you claim it is based on racism. This means one of two things.
A Blacks were as racist against Blacks as Whites were


Do you realize how stupid this statement is or do you just open your mouth to change feet. For an adult who claims to have a college degree to not recognize the difference is astonishing.  If white people from georgia kidnap white people from alabama and sell them to black people who claim they are racially superior to their slaves do you really think the kidnappers from georgia are racists? Do you really think that those who claim racial superiority are not racists?


B It was economics.

Since the first slave owner in the colonies was black I am inclined to think it is B.

Once again you are full of shit. The first slaves in america came in 1603. There is documentation from the jamestown colony in 1620 of black slaves being purchased by white colonist.

http://www.mythdebunk.com/first-slave-owner-african-american/

from wikepedia

In 1654,

1620 is before 1654 dumbass


John Casor, a black indentured servant, was the first man to be declared a slave in a civil case. He had claimed to an officer that his owner, free black colonist Anthony Johnson, had held him past his indenture term. A neighbor, Robert Parker told Johnson that if he did not release Casor, Parker would testify in court to this fact; which under local laws, may have resulted in Johnson losing some of his headright lands. Under duress, Johnson freed Casor, who entered into a seven years' indenture with Parker. Feeling cheated, Johnson sued Parker to repossess Casor. A Northampton County court ruled for Johnson, declaring that Parker illegally was detaining Casor from his rightful master who legally held him "for the duration of his life".[10]

Those brought in in 1603 were indentured servants, like the Irish. And were freed at the end of their servatude, like the Irish.

The cite I listed says they were black and for sale.

As I stated earlier economics was the original reason, race became an excuse as time went on.

I it were economics why wernt white people enslaved at the same rate that  blacks were?


You suffer from the delusion that since I do not condemn the entire white race and say no black had anything to do with anything that happened I am a racist.

You are a racists because you are defending racism...that is pretty simple.  It has nothing to do with condeming the white race or anyone else.



And the one that I read said they were "bought" as indentured servants, that is their contracts were bought, it also specifically stated that they were freed and that the case I was quoted was the first true slavery. Believe it or not as you wish. I have never once stated the system was good or even justified, I have simply provided realistic expinations for what happened, not at all the same thing.

I have argued with Klansmen in the past, you sound just like them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/27/2015 8:46:42 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Tens of millions. Whoosh. Do you have any connection with reality? Can you dress yourself?

I read someplace that the first slaves got to amerika about 1603 and that at it's peak there were more than 4 million slaves in the u.s..It would seem that even a lit major could do the math to figure out just how many slaves existed in amerika during that 250 year period?

The first slaves in the colonies were white. As the territory expanded, particularly into the South, more labor was needed and blacks became prized because they were better adapted to the climate.

The first Africans to be brought to English North America landed in Virginia in 1619. These individuals appear to have been treated as indentured servants, and a significant number of enslaved Africans even won their freedom through fulfilling a work contract or for converting to Christianity. Some successful free people of color, such as Anthony Johnson, acquired slaves or indentured servants themselves. To many historians, notably Edmund Morgan, this evidence suggests that racial attitudes were much more flexible in 17th century Virginia than they would subsequently become.

By 1625 there was a grand total of 25 African slaves in Virginia, with their numbers still under a thousand 65 years later in 1690.

The Dutch West India Company introduced slavery in 1625 with the importation of eleven enslaved blacks who worked as farmers, fur traders, and builders to New Amsterdam... Although enslaved, the Africans had a few basic rights and families were usually kept intact. Admitted to the Dutch Reformed Church and married by its ministers, their children could be baptized. Slaves could testify in court, sign legal documents, and bring civil actions against whites. Some were permitted to work after hours earning wages equal to those paid to white workers. When the colony fell, the company freed all its slaves, establishing early on a nucleus of free negros.

The numbers of African slaves in the colonies were relatively few until the 18th century.

Until the early 18th century, enslaved Africans were difficult to acquire in the colonies that became the United States, as most were sold in the West Indies.

It has been estimated that half of the entire trans-Atlantic slave trade took place during the 18th century, and by 1865 slavery was over. So, tens of millions? Tens, plural? Even a math major wouldn't think so.

Source

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/27/2015 8:47:30 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/27/2015 9:01:49 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		ThomasX there were several treaties where the English purchased land from the Cherokee. My relatives were Huguenots and though German were with a group of French Huguenots. At that time the Cherokee were changing allegiance back and forth between the French and English. The English would not sell land to them for obvious reasons so the group negotiated directly with the Cherokee and purchased land. They had no power and did not force a sale at gunpoint. Perhaps the Cherokee sold the land as a political ploy to keep the English at arms length so maybe indirectly it was pressure of English expansion... but this had nothing to do with my relatives... they were just caught in the middle.

Then there was a dispute between Irish settlers and the Cherokee that thought they were encroaching on their land. In the ensuing conflict the Cherokee did not make a distention between Irish and Germans and attacked all whites even those who had bought land from them.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/27/2015 9:07:54 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/27/2015 9:15:54 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Tens of millions. Whoosh. Do you have any connection with reality? Can you dress yourself?

I read someplace that the first slaves got to amerika about 1603 and that at it's peak there were more than 4 million slaves in the u.s..It would seem that even a lit major could do the math to figure out just how many slaves existed in amerika during that 250 year period?

"I read someplace" the ultimate authority.
I read someplace that in Africa cross bred with gorrillas, that doesn't make it true.

Are you aware that 90% of those slaves went to the Carribian and South America? Are you aware that slavery wasn't outlawed by the imacipation proclimation? Are you aware that Brazil didn't outlaw slavery until 1888?
None of these things justify slavery but they put some prespective on the U S slavery. The only places where slavery is legal today are Africa and the Middle East. Why aren't you ranting about them if all you care about is slavery? Is it because you can't blame white America for it? Now where are your solutions oh brilliant one?

Your hatred of America is clear from your spelling of it.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/27/2015 9:16:16 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 284
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 3:53:26 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

ThomasX there were several treaties where the English purchased land from the Cherokee. My relatives were Huguenots and though German were with a group of French Huguenots. At that time the Cherokee were changing allegiance back and forth between the French and English. The English would not sell land to them for obvious reasons so the group negotiated directly with the Cherokee and purchased land. They had no power and did not force a sale at gunpoint. Perhaps the Cherokee sold the land as a political ploy to keep the English at arms length so maybe indirectly it was pressure of English expansion... but this had nothing to do with my relatives... they were just caught in the middle.

Then there was a dispute between Irish settlers and the Cherokee that thought they were encroaching on their land. In the ensuing conflict the Cherokee did not make a distention between Irish and Germans and attacked all whites even those who had bought land from them.

Butch


ready to admit you were wrong and also to apologize yet tx?? to both of us for that matter...

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 9/28/2015 3:54:16 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 4:02:01 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		And the one that I read said they were "bought" as indentured servants, that is their contracts were bought, it also specifically stated that they were freed and that the case I was quoted was the first true slavery.


Yet the site I provided shows you are full of shit.

Believe it or not as you wish. I have never once stated the system was good or even justified,

You lying sack of shit. You defended the statement that "not all the blacks were innocent" when refering to the thousands of blacks murdered by white lynch mobs incited by the cops. 



I have simply provided realistic expinations for what happened, not at all the same thing.

You have provided disengenuous half truths and whole lies to justify your position. 

I have argued with Klansmen in the past, you sound just like them.

 

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 4:16:46 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Tens of millions. Whoosh. Do you have any connection with reality? Can you dress yourself?

I read someplace that the first slaves got to amerika about 1603 and that at it's peak there were more than 4 million slaves in the u.s..It would seem that even a lit major could do the math to figure out just how many slaves existed in amerika during that 250 year period?

"I read someplace" the ultimate authority.


"The first enslaved Africans arrived in what is now the United States as part of the San Miguel de Gualdape colony (most likely located in the Winyah Bay area of present-day South Carolina), founded by Spanish explorer Lucas Vásquez de Ayllón in 1526".

The European Struggle to Settle North America: Colonizing Attempts by England, France and Spain, 1521-1608. McFarland. p. 26. ISBN 978-0-7864-5932-2.






Are you aware that 90% of those slaves went to the Carribian and South America? Are you aware that slavery wasn't outlawed by the imacipation proclimation? Are you aware that Brazil didn't outlaw slavery until 1888?

I am aware that you are bringing a plate of red herings to the table

None of these things justify slavery but they put some prespective on the U S slavery. The only places where slavery is legal today are Africa and the Middle East. Why aren't you ranting about them if all you care about is slavery? Is it because you can't blame white America for it?

I am an amerikan and we are discussing slavery in the u.s. and you would prefer to make it about anything other than this.


Your hatred of America is clear from your spelling of it.

How exactly does that follow?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 4:24:53 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: kdsub

ThomasX there were several treaties where the English purchased land from the Cherokee.

All the land taken from the cherokee by the english was taken at the point of a gun. Do a little research.

My relatives were Huguenots and though German were with a group of French Huguenots. At that time the Cherokee were changing allegiance back and forth between the French and English.

Lets be a bit more specific. The cherokee were allies of the english until the french and indian war at which time many of the cherokee changed sides.

The English would not sell land to them for obvious reasons so the group negotiated directly with the Cherokee and purchased land.


If you choose to ignore the differences in land tenure between the native amerikans and the eropeans then this disengenuous line of reasoning will continue.

They had no power and did not force a sale at gunpoint. Perhaps the Cherokee sold the land as a political ploy to keep the English at arms length so maybe indirectly it was pressure of English expansion... but this had nothing to do with my relatives... they were just caught in the middle.


Your relatives were as aware of the differences in land tenure as we are today so stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining.

Then there was a dispute between Irish settlers and the Cherokee that thought they were encroaching on their land. In the ensuing conflict the Cherokee did not make a distention between Irish and Germans and attacked all whites even those who had bought land from them.


So they were just "indian givers" and the u.s. was justified in stealing their land and murdering them?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 288
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 6:51:30 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Tens of millions. Whoosh. Do you have any connection with reality? Can you dress yourself?

I read someplace that the first slaves got to amerika about 1603 and that at it's peak there were more than 4 million slaves in the u.s..It would seem that even a lit major could do the math to figure out just how many slaves existed in amerika during that 250 year period?

The first slaves in the colonies were white. As the territory expanded, particularly into the South, more labor was needed and blacks became prized because they were better adapted to the climate.

According to the cite you posted you are full of shit.
The first enslaved Africans arrived in what is now the United States as part of the San Miguel de Gualdape colony (most likely located in the Winyah Bay area of present-day South Carolina), founded by Spanish explorer Lucas Vásquez de Ayllón in 1526.
The European Struggle to Settle North America: Colonizing Attempts by England, France and Spain, 1521-1608. McFarland. p. 26. ISBN 978-0-7864-5932-2.
 
 

The first Africans to be brought to English North America landed in Virginia in 1619. These individuals appear to have been treated as indentured servants, and a significant number of enslaved Africans even won their freedom through fulfilling a work contract or for converting to Christianity. Some successful free people of color, such as Anthony Johnson, acquired slaves or indentured servants themselves. To many historians, notably Edmund Morgan, this evidence suggests that racial attitudes were much more flexible in 17th century Virginia than they would subsequently become.

 
Suggests

By 1625 there was a grand total of 25 African slaves in Virginia, with their numbers still under a thousand 65 years later in 1690.

Bullshit!!!from your own cite

In 1672, the King of England rechartered the Royal African Company (it had initially been set up in 1660), as an English monopoly for the African slave and commodities trade—thereafter in 1698, by statute, the English parliament opened the trade to all English subjects.[32] The slave trade to the mid-Atlantic colonies increased substantially in the 1680s, and by 1710 the African population in Virginia had increased to 23,100

 

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 6:54:45 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: bounty44
ready to admit you were wrong and also to apologize yet tx?? to both of us for that matter...

I have nothing to apologize for.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/28/2015 6:55:37 AM >

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 9:16:28 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		The most comprehensive analysis of shipping records over the course of the slave trade is the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, edited by professors David Eltis and David Richardson. (While the editors are careful to say that all of their figures are estimates, I believe that they are the best estimates that we have, the proverbial "gold standard" in the field of the study of the slave trade.) Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.

And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000. That's right: a tiny percentage.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_slaves_came_to_america_fact_vs_fiction.html

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 9:45:39 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

By 1625 there was a grand total of 25 African slaves in Virginia, with their numbers still under a thousand 65 years later in 1690.

Bullshit!!!from your own cite

In 1672, the King of England rechartered the Royal African Company (it had initially been set up in 1660), as an English monopoly for the African slave and commodities trade—thereafter in 1698, by statute, the English parliament opened the trade to all English subjects.[32] The slave trade to the mid-Atlantic colonies increased substantially in the 1680s, and by 1710 the African population in Virginia had increased to 23,100

Oh please, what I posted was exactly correct. The number of African slaves in Virginia 1690 was 950 ("under a thousand").

Until the early 18th century, enslaved Africans were difficult to acquire in the colonies that became the United States, as most were sold in the West Indies.

Twenty years later, 1710, is "the early 18th century".

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

The first enslaved Africans arrived in what is now the United States as part of the San Miguel de Gualdape colony (most likely located in the Winyah Bay area of present-day South Carolina), founded by Spanish explorer Lucas Vásquez de Ayllón in 1526.

The history of the United States starts with the 13 British colonies. If you want to expand the scope to include Spanish settlements, why stop there?

K.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 9:48:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And the mid south (the glaring example, Tennessee) were factories for turning out slaves to sell down the river. Import a few breeding livestock and there you have it...................



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 293
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:09:36 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

What is your point? Importation of slaves into the u.s. was prohibited in 1808.  We have pretty good records that show that by 1825 there were about 4 million black slaves in the u.s..  It is pretty clear that that core population were multiplying.   By 1850 the slaves in the u.s. were fifth and sixth generation.

http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 294
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:14:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The history of the United States starts with the 13 British colonies. If you want to expand the scope to include Spanish settlements, why stop there?

K.



Agreed, cuz we didn't stop there.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 295
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:15:56 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

By 1625 there was a grand total of 25 African slaves in Virginia, with their numbers still under a thousand 65 years later in 1690.

Bullshit!!!from your own cite

In 1672, the King of England rechartered the Royal African Company (it had initially been set up in 1660), as an English monopoly for the African slave and commodities trade—thereafter in 1698, by statute, the English parliament opened the trade to all English subjects.[32] The slave trade to the mid-Atlantic colonies increased substantially in the 1680s, and by 1710 the African population in Virginia had increased to 23,100

Oh please, what I posted was exactly correct. The number of African slaves in Virginia 1690 was 950 ("under a thousand").
 
And yet a mere 20 years later there are 23 times as many...looks like you really are full of shit.


Until the early 18th century, enslaved Africans were difficult to acquire in the colonies that became the United States, as most were sold in the West Indies.

Twenty years later, 1710, is "the early 18th century".

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

The first enslaved Africans arrived in what is now the United States as part of the San Miguel de Gualdape colony (most likely located in the Winyah Bay area of present-day South Carolina), founded by Spanish explorer Lucas Vásquez de Ayllón in 1526.

The history of the United States starts with the 13 British colonies.

That would be your ignorant unsubstantiated purile opinion. The history of the u.s starts with the voyage of columbus.


If you want to expand the scope to include Spanish settlements, why stop there?

We are dealing with slavery in the new world. The u.s. is part of the new world. If you wish to tear pages out of your history book that would be your business.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:16:06 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		How exactly does that follow?

Amerika is the spelling of America used by anti-American leftists since the 60's, or are you also ignorant of that fact?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:18:36 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I am an amerikan and we are discussing slavery in the u.s. and you would prefer to make it about anything other than this.


Actually the thread is about why anyone would object to saying that all lives matter since that includes black lives. Unless you are using the Royal we you are wrong again.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 298
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:20:44 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

What is your point? Importation of slaves into the u.s. was prohibited in 1808.  We have pretty good records that show that by 1825 there were about 4 million black slaves in the u.s..  It is pretty clear that that core population were multiplying.   By 1850 the slaves in the u.s. were fifth and sixth generation.

http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery


The point is that you gave a grossly exagerated number of slaves transported to the U S and he was correcting you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/28/2015 10:22:17 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

How exactly does that follow?

Amerika is the spelling of America used by anti-American leftists since the 60's, or are you also ignorant of that fact?


There are those politically correct "hall monitors" like yourself who feel compelled to micromanage every thought word and deed of those they disagree with.
You can take your p.c. agenda and stuff it where the sun don't shine. Slime mongers like tailgunner joe have been run off before by patriots who pointed out his buffonery

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 300
Page:   <<   < prev  13 14 [15] 16 17   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue Page: <<   < prev  13 14 [15] 16 17   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094