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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:29:57 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Kirata
This business of blaming the state of our inner-city neighborhoods on "racism" only serves to infantilize blacks, absolving them of responsibility for the conditions that exist on their streets and in their schools, and is in itself a pernicious form of racism.


Extorting $2 million dollars a year from the black residents of fergustan is clearly a pernicious form of racism as deliniated in the doj report. To fail to recognize this will infantilze yor argument that the blacks were simply extorting themselves

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:37:56 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: MercTech

One point in the argument over the number of slaves in the United States. There was a huge jump in the number of slaves in the U.S. with the Louisiana Purchase.

Really? How many? What was the percentage of increase? How many of the new black residents were slave holders? How were they (the black slave holders)counted for purposes of representation?

A few years after the the U.S. took over governing the Gulf Coast territories;

The louisiana purchase did not inclued mississippi alabama or florida...those come much later.


the importation of slaves was forbidden.

Not until 1808.


The slave traditions of the French and Spanish plantations ended up spreading north into areas where formerly slavery was an odd aberration.

Odd aberation or established practice?


After the ejection of Native American tribes to the plains west of the Mississippi; huge land grants in the Mississippi Territories were used as a mechanism to retire the federal debts from the War of 1812. Many of the grants were to military taking a land grant in lieu of back pay. But, many larger tracts went to financiers to pay off debts for war supplies. Where does one get workers for large farms that had to be cleared and developed? Well there was a ready market to purchase labor from the Spanish and French plantations from what had formerly been West Florida and New France.


What part of florida alabama and mississippi did the u.s. acquire from the war of 1812?

Just noting some things about the history of the Mississippi Territories that doesn't make it to the average history book.

Perhaps there is a reason that bit of non history isn't in the history books?

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 8:14:22 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Kirata
This business of blaming the state of our inner-city neighborhoods on "racism" only serves to infantilize blacks, absolving them of responsibility for the conditions that exist on their streets and in their schools, and is in itself a pernicious form of racism.


Extorting $2 million dollars a year from the black residents of fergustan is clearly a pernicious form of racism as deliniated in the doj report. To fail to recognize this will infantilze yor argument that the blacks were simply extorting themselves
Hmmm...Kirata speaks of 'inner-city neighborhoods' and...surprise...you speak of Ferguson. Is that going to be your 'go)to' answer anytime someone suggests that some part of the black people's problems might be of their own doing?

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 8:49:51 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Ferguson is not an inner-city neigborhood? When did that happen?

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 9:15:29 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ferguson is not an inner-city neigborhood? When did that happen?

One...of many.

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 9:24:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Is that your goto answer to fix the problems?

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 9:34:21 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Is that your goto answer to fix the problems?

No. It is the correct answer to your question.

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 9:38:23 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		OH, actually my question was rhetorical, and a fix to your pointless comment. We were at cross purposes, apparently.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 10:02:00 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

OH, actually my question was rhetorical, and a fix to your pointless comment. We were at cross purposes, apparently.

Actually, the answer to Thompson wasn't pointless. Sorry you couldn't understand that.

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 10:06:10 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Sure it was, the stated premise being that Ferguson was not relevant to inner-city problems, and was a surprise to you that huntie would use it in such discourse.


Sorry you don't understand.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:07:45 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


Hmmm...Kirata speaks of 'inner-city neighborhoods' and...surprise...you speak of Ferguson. Is that going to be your 'go)to' answer anytime someone suggests that some part of the black people's problems might be of their own doing?

If you wish to have a serious discussion with me wouldn't it be prudent to let me define my position? First, we are not discussing black people's problems, which is what you would like to do. We are discusing a specific problem of black people...that problem being racism. If you do not wish to discuss this that is fine by me start a thread about the criminal behaviour within the black community I will be more than happy to participate. You are absolutely correct that everytime some fool wants to compare their asshole to their elbow I will sugest that I am not interested.  I am interested in this particular thread. You are contributing but so far have not thought it necessary to research what we are discussing. You have ,however,  found time to look up statistics about how many black thugs kill other black thugs and any number of "collateral damage" . Here we are discussing racism thus the title and all that shit. So yes as long as you or any other fool wants to have a "go to move" like injecting comon criminality into a discussion of racism in order to dilute the discussion...yes I most definatly will point out what the discussion is about. 

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:11:11 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ferguson is not an inner-city neigborhood? When did that happen?

One...of many.

Of those many, how many have the u.s. doj investigated and issued reports of their findings?
How many of those reports have you read?

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:28:06 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Actually Ferguson is a suburb not an inner-city area... Now go a little south and east to North St. Louis now your in the "inner city" But many of the blacks in the complex where the trouble began came from the inner City years ago when a huge failed housing complex had to be abandoned because of violence ...Pruitt–Igoe was the name... They brought their violent ways with them it seems.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/30/2015 7:30:27 PM >

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:37:27 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

This business of blaming the state of our inner-city neighborhoods on "racism" only serves to infantilize blacks, absolving them of responsibility for the conditions that exist on their streets and in their schools, and is in itself a pernicious form of racism.

Extorting $2 million dollars a year from the black residents of fergustan is clearly a pernicious form of racism as deliniated in the doj report. To fail to recognize this will infantilze yor argument that the blacks were simply extorting themselves

You're just spouting rhetoric. The sometimes aggressive use of fines for non-criminal traffic and other offenses as a source of revenue is common in municipalities where income from property taxes and excise fees is insufficient to meet budget requirements (see here, for example). The DOJ's conclusion that these practices reflect racism depends solely on a specious "disparate impact" argument.

Ferguson’s law enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African Americans. Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African Americans account for 85% of vehicle stops, 90% of citations, and 93% of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67% of Ferguson’s population.

The implication here is that if African Americans accounted for only 67% of vehicle stops, citations, and arrests then all would be well. But clearly, this is nonsense. What if African Americans could be shown to offend at a rate equal to only half their representation in the population? Would all still be well at 67%? Obviously not. The reality is, national data show that African Americans offend at rates ranging from roughly twice to more than five times their representation in the population across all crime categories except alcohol-related offenses (see here).

K.

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RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:38:43 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Actually Ferguson is a suburb not an inner-city area... Now go a little south and east to North St. Louis now your in the "inner city" But many of the blacks in the complex where the trouble began came from the inner City years ago when a huge failed housing complex had to be abandoned because of violence ...Pruitt–Igoe was the name... They brought their violent ways with them it seems.

Butch



We have a housing complex like that just south of Montgomery. Gave people a new, clean, safe place to live and within a tear or two it was just as bad as the areas they had come from.
I remember one day they brought in two women for murder. One had shot her boyfriend six times and left him in a ditch. the other drowned her baby in amonia. The one who shot her boyfriend made sure everyone knew she had shot him and wasn't the one who killed her baby.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 335
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:47:23 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: kdsub

Actually Ferguson is a suburb not an inner-city area... Now go a little south and east to North St. Louis now your in the "inner city" But many of the blacks in the complex where the trouble began came from the inner City years ago when a huge failed housing complex had to be abandoned because of violence ...Pruitt–Igoe was the name... They brought their violent ways with them it seems.

Wasn't pruitt-igoe an integrated housing project? Why do you think it failed to work?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:55:39 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		You're just spouting rhetoric. The sometimes aggressive use of fines for non-criminal traffic and other offenses as a source of revenue is common in municipalities where income from property taxes and excise fees is insufficient to meet budget requirements (see [color=#666600 size=2]here, for example). The DOJ's conclusion that these practices reflect racism depends solely on a specious "disparate impact" argument.

When you have read the doj report please do get back to me. Your opinion of someone else's opinion of something you have not read is of less than no interest to me.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:56:57 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		We have a housing complex like that just south of Montgomery. Gave people a new, clean, safe place to live and within a tear or two it was just as bad as the areas they had come from.

Why do you think that is?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 7:56:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Actually Ferguson is a suburb not an inner-city area... Now go a little south and east to North St. Louis now your in the "inner city" But many of the blacks in the complex where the trouble began came from the inner City years ago when a huge failed housing complex had to be abandoned because of violence ...Pruitt–Igoe was the name... They brought their violent ways with them it seems.

Wasn't pruitt-igoe an integrated housing project? Why do you think it failed to work?


My guess would be gangs and drugs, that is what happened here.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue - 9/30/2015 8:05:17 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

My guess would be gangs and drugs, that is what happened here.

Guessing seems to be something you do a lot of without much success. Here is a quick overview of the why.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt%E2%80%93Igoe

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 340
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