RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety?

RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:10:23 AM)
I don't have young kids at home and didn't have one when they were younger. ETA: It's not illegal to have one. It's only illegal to carry one in public. A and no one with kids ever comes into your home B You have bragged about carring it in public so you are still an unconvicted felon.

igor2003 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is no such thing as gun safety for children it is a waste of money... Spend it on required gun safety classes for adults so they do not kill their children through ignorance and carelessness Butch Why not teach gun safety to kids so they don't, among other things, mistake a real gun for a toy. Teach them as kids and they will not need to be trained as adults. So you would advocate teaching kids how to drive so they know how to safely control a car when they come of age.... or even a truck (semi to you)?? No. Keep guns away from kids until they are of legal age to have and use one properly and safely. Actually, if the opportunity is there then I am all for teaching kids how to drive at an early age, though not on the street. I started driving a tractor without the need of supervision when I was 5, and I started driving our old '49 Chevy pickup around the farm when I was 8, and I had a definite advantage over the kids that had not grown up on a farm when it was time for Driver Education. Having grown up in a rural area nearly every family had at least one deer rifle and one shotgun. Most families had more than one of each as well as at least one handgun. Almost none of these people ever found a need to keep their guns locked up away from the kids, and there was never any accident that I ever heard of that was the result of one of the kids grabbing a gun just to play with it, and there were NO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. When I was 12 I often grabbed the shotgun and headed off to the north forty to hunt pheasants. Never did I even think of using one of the guns as a means to settle an argument or anything of that nature. If guns are the problem today, why wasn't it a problem back then? GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem today is the way kids are raised, and the growing number of people with mental issues. Start fixing those issues, and you will go a LONG way toward fixing the "gun" issue.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:13:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Really? you have stats and figures to substantiate your claim?? Personal experience And in my personal experience, teaching such dangerous things to kids is an invitation to accidents and trouble. One incident of an idiot adult does not make a case for further stupidity in parenting. No stats or evidence to back it up makes it nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated opinion.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:14:23 AM)
Ah.... so you had an aunt that was an idiot. Nothing to do with teaching kids - an idiot adult. She was doing things your way, so yes I guess you could say she was an idiot because she was ignoring the kids education. You note that it was my fathers service revolver (in those days there were no gun safes for the general population) so it wasn't like the gun was in their house, it wasn't even out in the open.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:15:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I don't have young kids at home and didn't have one when they were younger. ETA: It's not illegal to have one. It's only illegal to carry one in public. A and no one with kids ever comes into your home B You have bragged about carring it in public so you are still an unconvicted felon. A: No, actually. nobody with kids comes into my home. B: I didn't brag - I just said that I did and the reason why I did.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:16:03 AM)
So you would be one of those parents that would teach toddlers about bleach, rat poison, weed killer, drain cleaner, paint stripper and everything else dangerous. Most sensible parents just lock them away and keep their kids away from such dangerous things. And that should include guns!! I do both.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:16:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Ah.... so you had an aunt that was an idiot. Nothing to do with teaching kids - an idiot adult. She was doing things your way, so yes I guess you could say she was an idiot because she was ignoring the kids education. You note that it was my fathers service revolver (in those days there were no gun safes for the general population) so it wasn't like the gun was in their house, it wasn't even out in the open. Not my way. The incident had NOTHING to do with teaching kids - it was an ignorant and stupid adult not ensuring the gun was kept in a safe place.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:17:44 AM)
I think your approach to be very irresponsible and the money could be better spent elsewhere. A vote for ignorance is bliss,, it isn't safe but it is happy right up untill it isn't.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:18:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So you would be one of those parents that would teach toddlers about bleach, rat poison, weed killer, drain cleaner, paint stripper and everything else dangerous. Most sensible parents just lock them away and keep their kids away from such dangerous things. And that should include guns!! I do both. And how do you teach a toddler that a certain chemical is highly dangerous?? Show them every label on the retail and wholesale market for every chemical? Really???? You must have super-brainy kids to remember all that shit coz most that I know would get lost and be confused after the first 2 or 3.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:20:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Really? you have stats and figures to substantiate your claim?? Personal experience And in my personal experience, teaching such dangerous things to kids is an invitation to accidents and trouble. One incident of an idiot adult does not make a case for further stupidity in parenting. No stats or evidence to back it up makes it nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated opinion. As good or better than your opinion, at least I don't follow the law only when it suits me.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:21:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I don't have young kids at home and didn't have one when they were younger. ETA: It's not illegal to have one. It's only illegal to carry one in public. A and no one with kids ever comes into your home B You have bragged about carring it in public so you are still an unconvicted felon. A: No, actually. nobody with kids comes into my home. B: I didn't brag - I just said that I did and the reason why I did. So once again you admit to being a felon, what you did then would put you in jail here.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:24:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Ah.... so you had an aunt that was an idiot. Nothing to do with teaching kids - an idiot adult. She was doing things your way, so yes I guess you could say she was an idiot because she was ignoring the kids education. You note that it was my fathers service revolver (in those days there were no gun safes for the general population) so it wasn't like the gun was in their house, it wasn't even out in the open. Not my way. The incident had NOTHING to do with teaching kids - it was an ignorant and stupid adult not ensuring the gun was kept in a safe place. Can't you read, the gun was not in the open. There were no gun safes avaliable. It wasn't her home. Do you suggest that if you came into my home you would have the right, even the duty, to inspect my home to make sure it was safe enough for your kids? It would be a very short visit and you would never cross my doorstep again.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:28:25 AM)
I see your point Igor and to some degree I agree with it. The problem is that ADULTS are not taught how to deal with stuff properly and that (sadly) tends to get handed down to their kids. Many of my friends that were brought up on a farm here know about guns and tractors and all sorts of stuff that most kids never even come across let alone have to deal with. But, in a simple across-the-board sweeping statement, if there were not such a prolific spread of guns and availability of such, so many of these 'accidents' and shooting incidents just wouldn't happen. And before Bama starts on the 'you want to ban the gun' and anti-gun rhetoric he frequently comes out with, I'm not advocating the banning of guns. Many people, including Obama himself, have criticised the number of gun incidents per capita that ONLY happen in the USA where they just don't happen elsewhere in other 1st-woprld countries should tell Americans that something is severely going wrong with their gun policy.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:30:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I don't have young kids at home and didn't have one when they were younger. ETA: It's not illegal to have one. It's only illegal to carry one in public. A and no one with kids ever comes into your home B You have bragged about carring it in public so you are still an unconvicted felon. A: No, actually. nobody with kids comes into my home. B: I didn't brag - I just said that I did and the reason why I did. So once again you admit to being a felon, what you did then would put you in jail here. It would here - if I got caught with it on the street. But.... I didn't get caught and my daughter got home safely. Even if I owned a gun (and yes, I could easily legally get one), I wouldn't have carried it.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:36:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Can't you read, the gun was not in the open. There were no gun safes avaliable. It wasn't her home. Do you suggest that if you came into my home you would have the right, even the duty, to inspect my home to make sure it was safe enough for your kids? It would be a very short visit and you would never cross my doorstep again. I read it. It was still a very stupid adult that caused the problem - not the kid. To my mind, no safe = no gun. It's irresponsible to have one without somewhere safe to keep it away from little fingers. And yes, I would expect every parent to have all dangerous items locked away and out of reach of any young kids. That would extend to guns, badly behaved pets, chemicals and anything else. That would be the expectation of every responsible adult with children over here. It is so ingrained in our society here that those being that kind of irresponsible in the event of an incident would face the courts and probable jail for such irresponsibility. A dog that bites gets the owners prosecuted and dog destroyed - because it is expected to have the animal kept away from innocent or vulnerable people.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:52:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Really? you have stats and figures to substantiate your claim?? Personal experience And in my personal experience, teaching such dangerous things to kids is an invitation to accidents and trouble. One incident of an idiot adult does not make a case for further stupidity in parenting. No stats or evidence to back it up makes it nothing more than hearsay and unsubstantiated opinion. As good or better than your opinion, at least I don't follow the law only when it suits me. Oh, and you have never broken the law??? Ah right!! You have... and got caught and spent time inside for it. I can honestly say that I very rarely break the law and have never ever been incarcerated for a felon. Even my driving license is clean. [:D]

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 11:53:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD So you would be one of those parents that would teach toddlers about bleach, rat poison, weed killer, drain cleaner, paint stripper and everything else dangerous. Most sensible parents just lock them away and keep their kids away from such dangerous things. And that should include guns!! I do both. And how do you teach a toddler that a certain chemical is highly dangerous?? Show them every label on the retail and wholesale market for every chemical? Really???? You must have super-brainy kids to remember all that shit coz most that I know would get lost and be confused after the first 2 or 3. Well he has an IQ of about 160 so yes he is brainy. You can teach them to recognize poison symbles, and to leave anything alone that is stored with them. If you are dumb enough to try to teach them each thing that is dangerous to swallow, they will find something else. When they are to young to read you just teach them only to eat what you give them. The don't have to be as smart as me to follow that, just as smart as you. You grew up in a gunless society, and yet you have the arrogance to lecture people who grew up around guns how to react to them. That is preaching from ignorance. Did you miss the part about my saying I stored them safely or did you just ignore it because it didn't fit your talking point? You consisantly ignore anything I say about storing things safely,why? Anyone should be able to see that the best defence is knowledge. Other precautions are good but secondary. If you have studied history you would know that a static defense never works.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 12:16:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Well he has an IQ of about 160 so yes he is brainy. You can teach them to recognize poison symbles, and to leave anything alone that is stored with them. If you are dumb enough to try to teach them each thing that is dangerous to swallow, they will find something else. When they are to young to read you just teach them only to eat what you give them. The don't have to be as smart as me to follow that, just as smart as you. You grew up in a gunless society, and yet you have the arrogance to lecture people who grew up around guns how to react to them. That is preaching from ignorance. Did you miss the part about my saying I stored them safely or did you just ignore it because it didn't fit your talking point? You consisantly ignore anything I say about storing things safely,why? Anyone should be able to see that the best defence is knowledge. Other precautions are good but secondary. If you have studied history you would know that a static defense never works. Hmmmm..... an IQ of about 160. Have you had him tested or are you just quoting numbers out the air?? That is some serious IQ - I'd have him in a special school and enrolled in Mensa. [:D] Actually, we aren't a gunless society - we just don't see the sense in allowing people to carry guns in public or to have them quite as prolific as they are in the US. We realised almost a century ago that to have such an open gun policy would be to invite to incident and trouble. Most other 1st-world countries have done something similar and do not have such a gun problem as the US. I'm not preaching from ignorance, just common sense; which an awful lot of Americans seem to not have. And to be fair, that would also apply to a lot of 1st-world countries these days, not just the USA. But there again, nowhere else has such an open gun policy and such a prolification of guns in the populace or such a gun problem that we hear relentlessly on the media every day. And no, I wouldn't be so obtuse as to expect you to allow me to inspect your home to make sure it was a safe place - I would expect you to take that responsibility and ensure it was safe for everyone because I would hold you responsible if anything untoward occurred on your property. Static defense.... a very popular and very effective tactic used by the Romans for centuries. If it wasn't for the corruption of those at the top, they would be ruling the world right now. Doesn't work?? It certainly does!! And I find it very strange that you quote history. History states that the US inherited our gun laws and in fact, most of our laws. We evolved and admitted our mistake and changed the laws. The US is still stuck in the 18th century with regard to guns. Most other countries, like us, have learned; yet the US stubbornly refuses to grow up and realise the dangers of such liberalisation. As for your version of 'safety', considering your arguments about guns, I wouldn't consider you safe.

Kirata -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 12:50:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether But that's not the real issue, is it Kirata? Eh, hello? quote: ORIGINAL: joether You support the political viewpoint of NSSF... Oh, it's you again. You're having another of your spells, joether. I do agree with some of their programs, though. A background check is only as good as the records in the database. FBI NICS databases are currently incomplete because many states have not provided all records that establish someone is prohibited from owning a firearm under current law, especially including mental health adjudications and involuntary commitments orders. Including these missing records will help ensure more accurate and complete background checks. ~FixNICS quote: ORIGINAL: joether This is your problem. That's what I like about you, joether. You're always good for a laugh. K.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/18/2015 12:56:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I see your point Igor and to some degree I agree with it. The problem is that ADULTS are not taught how to deal with stuff properly and that (sadly) tends to get handed down to their kids. Many of my friends that were brought up on a farm here know about guns and tractors and all sorts of stuff that most kids never even come across let alone have to deal with. But, in a simple across-the-board sweeping statement, if there were not such a prolific spread of guns and availability of such, so many of these 'accidents' and shooting incidents just wouldn't happen. And before Bama starts on the 'you want to ban the gun' and anti-gun rhetoric he frequently comes out with, I'm not advocating the banning of guns. Many people, including Obama himself, have criticised the number of gun incidents per capita that ONLY happen in the USA where they just don't happen elsewhere in other 1st-woprld countries should tell Americans that something is severely going wrong with their gun policy. No, you and even Obama miss the point entirely. When is the last time the government killed 150 of your citizens? When is the last time one of your citizens (not working for a terroist organization) killed 200 people with a bomb? The difference is not guns. It is a well documented fact, not my opinion, but fact, that in the last 20 years firearm ownership has doubled and violent crime has been cut in half. The increase in guns is not the sole, or even the primary, cause of the drop in crime, but it clearly didn't cause the explosion that you and Obama the 1st seems to think it should. In the same time your wonderful gun laws have had no real effect on crime. Drugs, drug money fueled gangs, and a widespread destruction of values are the cause. As Igor and I have both pointed out when there was less restriction there was less crime. As you are clearly unaware firearm accidents have also plummitted during this time, why, because of education. A grossley disproportionate level of crime takes place in the inner city (not because of race) where the unemployment rate among young blacks is upwards of 20%. Get them working re-instate values, and demolish the gangs and you will accomplish more than all the gun laws in the world. Not only that but they don't enforce the laws we have, don't you think it might be a good idea to actually see if the current laws have an effect before you start passing more laws to not enforce?

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