RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety?

RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 2:37:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is no such thing as gun safety for children it is a waste of money... Spend it on required gun safety classes for adults so they do not kill their children through ignorance and carelessness Butch Why not teach gun safety to kids so they don't, among other things, mistake a real gun for a toy. Teach them as kids and they will not need to be trained as adults. So you would advocate teaching kids how to drive so they know how to safely control a car when they come of age.... or even a truck (semi to you)?? No. Keep guns away from kids until they are of legal age to have and use one properly and safely. Well I suppose if there were a chance that a kid would come across a real car and think it's a toy and try to drive it, then yes, you might want to teach him some basics first. But that is highly unlikely. What is likely is a child who has been kept away from a gun finding it and because he has no fucking clue how to handle it, accidentally shooting himself or his buddy. In which case it might be helpful to teach them some basics before the tragedy occurs.

Lucylastic -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 5:50:35 AM)
FR Adam Lanzas parents taught him how to use a gun safely. 26 people died because...of that "experience" Now if only all americans had the same ideas on gun safety. Personally, even in the UK...my dad bought a gun his first of many. He taught me how to handle it, he taught me safety... That doesnt mean that they are going to be responsible with it. I do know something....there is no killing bad enough to ever get crazy gun nuts to give up their blankie.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 5:54:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Well I suppose if there were a chance that a kid would come across a real car and think it's a toy and try to drive it, then yes, you might want to teach him some basics first. But that is highly unlikely. What is likely is a child who has been kept away from a gun finding it and because he has no fucking clue how to handle it, accidentally shooting himself or his buddy. In which case it might be helpful to teach them some basics before the tragedy occurs. As I mentioned a few posts ago, kids are well aware of their surroundings and will also be aware of the guns that are around them. Given the wider range of media available to them these days, they have much more access to violence involving guns than we did as kids. Kids aren't stupid and they pick up on stuff very quickly. Unlike cars, guns are small and fascinating for kids to play with. Until they are old enough to understand and appreciate the difference between a toy or replica and a real one (and I don't mean just the visual differences), guns should be treated as a dangerous object that they should be kept away from. In the US they grow up in a culture where guns are as common as the shopping. To my mind, you teach them to leave the friggin' shopping alone, especially the nasty stuff, and I would include guns in the same category. Only when they are old enough (and for me, that would be the teens at the least), and mentally mature enough to know and accept responsibility, should you even attempt to teach them about guns. Every kid is different. There are some that are mature for their age, others are still little kids when in their 20's. So to put an absolute age number would be ridiculous and inappropriate unless you make it the age of majority like so many other things. We don't have that problem here because the average Joe doesn't have a gun or access to a gun. But I think people should take the same attitude as with anything else dangerous - a minimum age before they are personally able to take charge and learn about it properly. That's why most people can't take driving lessons until they are much older and it should be the same for guns. If you are going to throw money at gun safety - throw it at the adults, not the kids. Kids do stupid things. Even sensible kids do stupid things. Kids will be kids. There are more than enough stupid adults out there that need teaching... so use the money to teach them. [/end-rant]

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 5:55:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Last I checked, those under 18 years of age could not legal purchase a firearm. So technically, they shouldn't have one, right? Having one and having access to one are not the same thing now are they? quote: Therefore teaching them how to handle a firearm should not be a need. Actually there is a need, just as their is a need for driver education before a child is old enough to legally purchase a automobile. quote: However, parents will give alcoholic drinks to their older teenagers. In many countries wine is served with meals, even to children and not for the purpose of amusement. quote: Usually for a laugh or amusement. Sometimes not even thinking on the effects. And as it is well known, that teenagers abuse alcoholic drinks. No! it is not well known that teenagers abuse alcoholic drinks. What is well known, is that some teenagers abuse alcoholic drinks. quote: Seriously, how effective is this campaign, given normal observations of how teenagers behave? From your above statements, where you extrapolate from the specific to the general, it is obvious that you have no clue about "normal observations" or how teenagers act. quote: Like sex education, some will listen. Some will consider it but forget 'in the moment'. And the remainder will totally disregard it. The question does become, how effective is this particular campaign and message in changing childrens (and teenagers) towards handling firearms safety? I am always curious what sort of fool feels that no education is better than education. quote: This is your problem. Your against common sense ideas that would effectively lower firearm accidents You are the one preaching against teaching kids about firearm safety. quote: by a far greater degree than a simple gun lock that can be easily bypassed. The bypasing of the "simple gun lock" effectively changes the firearm into a club.

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:01:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is no such thing as gun safety for children it is a waste of money... Spend it on required gun safety classes for adults so they do not kill their children through ignorance and carelessness Butch Should we abolish grammar school,middle school and high school and just focus on adults?[8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:13:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Really? you have stats and figures to substantiate your claim?? Personal experience Personal experiende my ass...how about common sense. If you teach a kid that all guns are loaded until you verify otherwise, some number of them will believe you. How difficult is that logic chain to follow?

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:27:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And how do you teach a toddler that a certain chemical is highly dangerous?? How did your parents teach you not to drink dangerous chemicals when you were a todler? Since you probably could not read they would use the word "no" or some other non literate means of educational communication. quote: Show them every label on the retail and wholesale market for every chemical? Really???? At what age do you think children should be made aware of chemical toxic hazards?

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:34:28 AM)
quote: As good or better than your opinion, at least I don't follow the law only when it suits me. [8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:36:17 AM)
quote: Many people, including Obama himself, have criticised the number of gun incidents per capita that ONLY happen in the USA where they just don't happen elsewhere in other 1st-woprld countries should tell Americans that something is severely going wrong with their gun policy. If the phenomenia of gun violence that is present in the u.s. is unrepresented in other countries with similar levels of gun ownership perhaps it is not the policy which is flawed but perhaps more likely the mindset of those who are armed?

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:38:42 AM)
quote: The fact that you have changed doesn't mean you have gotten better and wiser, the greatest agent of change in 20th century Europe was Hitler (who pushed gun control) what a great step forward, next were the communists in the Soviet Union, God don't we all want to be like them. For someone who claims clanship with high iq people you do not seem to be too interested in using facts to support your position. Guns were illegal in germany when hitler was still a corporal. Look up the "freikorp" they were the ones who had the guns. The bolshivks predate hitler by decades. Private ownership of guns was illegal under the tsar. Private ownership of firearms was promoted by the bolshiviks. Remember they were the the revolutionaries overthrowing the legally constituted government with guns just like sam adams and george washington?

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:39:43 AM)
quote: The lock broke on one of them and I had to drill out much of the front in order to get in. Of course, as soon as possible I got another. It took me several hours to break into it giving me some faith in it's protective value. A good locksmith/safecracker could have had it open in about five minutes. I bought this bigass safe at an auction (4 tons) no combination. $100 for the safe,$200 transportation,$200 locksmith. Slightly over the price of scrap steel by the ton.

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:40:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If things have gotten so bad in this country to where it is necessary teach our children how to handle guns then it is time to take the guns away because we are too irresponsible to own them. Butch When in the history of this country did we not teach our children gun safety?

thompsonx -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 6:42:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Do you think you need to teach your 8 year old child how to drive your car? I was sitting on my dads lap with my hands on the stearing wheel when I was still in three cornered trousers.

Wayward5oul -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 7:30:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I was sitting on my dads lap with my hands on the stearing wheel when I was still in three cornered trousers. What in the heck are three cornered trousers?

Wayward5oul -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 7:34:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV We should really be teaching our kids abstinence regarding gun safety. It's worked so well with sex ed. And this is why I look forward to your posts.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 9:50:02 AM)
Unlike cars, guns are small and fascinating for kids to play with Only when you make sure they don't know anything about them. You let them see guns, even handle them (unloaded of course) and you let them know they can look at them whenever they want. Provided, of course that they ask you first and bingo the mystery and fascination are gone. But being firearms challenged you wouldn't know that. Instead you want to wait until they are hormonally imbalanced and think they know everything before you teach them.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 9:53:02 AM)
Only when they are old enough (and for me, that would be the teens at the least), and mentally mature enough to know and accept responsibility, should you even attempt to teach them about guns. Wrong again, it is easier to teach younger children, that way when they reach 15 or 16 the rules of safety are second nature to them.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 9:54:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Well I suppose if there were a chance that a kid would come across a real car and think it's a toy and try to drive it, then yes, you might want to teach him some basics first. But that is highly unlikely. What is likely is a child who has been kept away from a gun finding it and because he has no fucking clue how to handle it, accidentally shooting himself or his buddy. In which case it might be helpful to teach them some basics before the tragedy occurs. As I mentioned a few posts ago, kids are well aware of their surroundings and will also be aware of the guns that are around them. Given the wider range of media available to them these days, they have much more access to violence involving guns than we did as kids. Kids aren't stupid and they pick up on stuff very quickly. Unlike cars, guns are small and fascinating for kids to play with. Until they are old enough to understand and appreciate the difference between a toy or replica and a real one (and I don't mean just the visual differences), guns should be treated as a dangerous object that they should be kept away from. In the US they grow up in a culture where guns are as common as the shopping. To my mind, you teach them to leave the friggin' shopping alone, especially the nasty stuff, and I would include guns in the same category. Only when they are old enough (and for me, that would be the teens at the least), and mentally mature enough to know and accept responsibility, should you even attempt to teach them about guns. Every kid is different. There are some that are mature for their age, others are still little kids when in their 20's. So to put an absolute age number would be ridiculous and inappropriate unless you make it the age of majority like so many other things. We don't have that problem here because the average Joe doesn't have a gun or access to a gun. But I think people should take the same attitude as with anything else dangerous - a minimum age before they are personally able to take charge and learn about it properly. That's why most people can't take driving lessons until they are much older and it should be the same for guns. If you are going to throw money at gun safety - throw it at the adults, not the kids. Kids do stupid things. Even sensible kids do stupid things. Kids will be kids. There are more than enough stupid adults out there that need teaching... so use the money to teach them. [/end-rant] When should they begin sex education?

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 9:55:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I was sitting on my dads lap with my hands on the stearing wheel when I was still in three cornered trousers. What in the heck are three cornered trousers? I suspect he was reffering to diapers, I had to think like him for a momment, please don't ask me to do that again.

BamaD -> RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? (9/19/2015 10:06:00 AM)
FR Since those people who don't want gun safety for kids and keep reffering to cars I thought someone should mention this. I and everyone else here has seen numerous cases where kids as young as 7 have taken off with the family car, usually with tragic results. Of course the people who want people taught that guns are evil things that they should never touch will have ignored or forgotten these cases.

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