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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/21/2015 10:30:28 PM

CarpeComa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

For example, I'm a strong extrovert, so, to get a complex task figured out, I'd barge uninvited into someone's office and start erasing their whiteboard to throw a few different scenarios out, to discuss the pros and cons of, and I'd grab anyone who walked by the open door to see what they thought about each solution, and I'd toy with crazy ideas, just to see if some stuck, etc. This tactic worked FINE with the people who were lined up with me

This is will not be acceptable in any kind of situation in my country and there is no 'strong extrovert" that would even approve of this. Is this normal in the US? This behaviour? Are you from US?

No, this isn't acceptable behavior in the US. This is confusing extroversion with rudeness.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 2:51:24 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

For example, I'm a strong extrovert, so, to get a complex task figured out, I'd barge uninvited into someone's office and start erasing their whiteboard to throw a few different scenarios out, to discuss the pros and cons of, and I'd grab anyone who walked by the open door to see what they thought about each solution, and I'd toy with crazy ideas, just to see if some stuck, etc. This tactic worked FINE with the people who were lined up with me

This is will not be acceptable in any kind of situation in my country and there is no 'strong extrovert" that would even approve of this. Is this normal in the US? This behaviour? Are you from US?

With being chronically late, I recognize it as a failing and a flaw and that is not subjective as there are people who are just time management experts and can juggle anything, despite their dense packed situations.

I have worked in a lot of offices and I have never been in one where this would be acceptable so no I don't think it's a US thing. I did see something similar on the Big Bang Theory but that's about it.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:01:00 PM

crumpets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
This is will not be acceptable in any kind of situation in my country and there is no 'strong extrovert" that would even approve of this. Is this normal in the US? This behaviour? Are you from US?

Are you crazy?
This is the Silicon Valley. It's not an old-people's home.
We all have IDEAS. Ideas are why they HIRE us.
They don't hire us to be potted plants.
And, we don't solve problems that have ever been solved before.
Every single day, we solved problems that had NEVER been solved before.
We push the limits every single day.
EVERYONE is an engineer.

Now, some are introverts. Some are extroverts. So we need to work together.
In general, the introverts are the program manager types (but that's pushing the Myers-Briggs a bit - but just to make a point).
The extroverts are, in general, the skunk-works types (again, this is pushing the envelope - just to make the point that personalities determine a lot of who you are and what you are good at).

But, if we didn't have this type of behavior, we wouldn't be pushing the limits every single day.
How many times have YOU solved a problem which had never been solved before?
If you did it, you didn't do it by being a potted plant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
With being chronically late, I recognize it as a failing and a flaw and that is not subjective as there are people who are just time management experts and can juggle anything, despite their dense packed situations.

We have a saying, here in the valley, if you want something done, ask a busy person.
The point is that some people get a lot done, and some don't.
But I don't think being late or early to a social meeting will characterize either one.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:03:05 PM

crumpets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarpeComa
No, this isn't acceptable behavior in the US. This is confusing extroversion with rudeness.

How long have you worked in the Silicon Valley solving problems that had never been solved before you solved them?

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:06:13 PM

crumpets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I have worked in a lot of offices and I have never been in one where this would be acceptable so no I don't think it's a US thing.

Same question:
How long have you worked in the Silicon Valley solving problems that had never been solved before you solved them?

If I told you the field I worked in, and made a lot of money in, and then I asked you what you knew about that field, you'd draw a complete blank.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
You don't solve problems that have never been solved in the history of mankind before, by being "gentle" with everyone.
And, by the way, in the US, we solve a LOT of problems, many of them solved right here, in the Silicon Valley.

I probably solved more problems in a year than you solved in your entire life.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:25:32 PM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

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I've been on both sides of the spectrum on this. I think you ought to ask people up front, are you prone to being late, or are you obsessively prompt? That way you'll know what to expect from them and visa versa.

As for EARLY types who arrive early at your HOME, before you yourself are ready for them, perhaps you're just then stepping out of the shower and still have a half hour or more before designated meeting time...well, My strong opinion is they should be strangled unconcious, stuffed into a wooden shipping crate, and mailed to a foreign country.

< Message edited by MAINEiacMISTRESS -- 9/22/2015 9:51:38 PM >

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:29:13 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Are you crazy?
This is the Silicon Valley. It's not an old-people's home.
We all have IDEAS. Ideas are why they HIRE us.

I didn't know barging into someone's office without knocking and taking over their whiteboard without their permission is essential to having ideas.

This is very new to me! But over here, even if we have ideas to present, we make an appointment with the person, being respectful of his time as well, and then present the idea. If we need to use his whiteboard, we also ask permission first.

I'm pretty sure the idea will still be there, after giving the other person basic respect as a human being.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/22/2015 9:30:35 PM >

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:33:08 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
I probably solved more problems in a year than you solved in your entire life.

What kind of problems do you solve and name one problem.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:35:40 PM

CarpeComa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarpeComa
No, this isn't acceptable behavior in the US. This is confusing extroversion with rudeness.

How long have you worked in the Silicon Valley solving problems that had never been solved before you solved them?

Solving never solved before problems is practically my job description. As for the location, I have spent some time in Silicon Valley, but most of the time I work with that team remotely. Not that this really matters, because in your description you indicate a self-important mindset and your follow-up continues in that vein, which is where your rudeness stems from. Just because people tolerate your behavior doesn't mean it is appropriate. Take the ego somewhere else.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/22/2015 9:36:45 PM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
I probably solved more problems in a year than you solved in your entire life.

What kind of problems do you solve and name one problem.

Possibly not the problem of narcissism.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 12:26:19 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

Are you crazy?
This is the Silicon Valley. It's not an old-people's home.
We all have IDEAS. Ideas are why they HIRE us.

I didn't know barging into someone's office without knocking and taking over their whiteboard without their permission is essential to having ideas.

Yeah no, it's not, and neither is getting defensive and insulting when called on it.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/23/2015 12:29:55 AM >

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 1:27:25 AM

Greta75

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quote:

As for EARLY types who arrive early at your HOME, before you yourself are ready for them, perhaps you're just then stepping out of the shower and still have a half hour or more before designated meeting time...well, My strong opinion is they should be strangled unconcious, stuffed into a wooden shipping crate, and mailed to a foreign country.

Super early types are crazy! I don't know why super late person like me attracts super early types as friends. Even my girlfriends. Like we got a cook out arrange in my home, and they just gotta call me and tell me, they are around the area, 1 hour early!! Like wtf? Fortunately around my place there are malls they can go entertain themselves and walk around, as I would say, I am not ready! My place is not ready! Go shopping or something first!

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 8:22:47 AM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

Are you crazy?
This is the Silicon Valley. It's not an old-people's home.
We all have IDEAS. Ideas are why they HIRE us.
They don't hire us to be potted plants.
And, we don't solve problems that have ever been solved before.
Every single day, we solved problems that had NEVER been solved before.
We push the limits every single day.
EVERYONE is an engineer.

My husband is a software engineer who does exactly this type of work (solving problems that have never been solved before), though he works remote most of the time, not in Silicon Valley.

I will tell you that when he's mid-stream-of-thought solving one of those 'problems that have never been solved' he doesn't at all appreciate being interupted so he looses his flow. In fact, unless it's uber urgent, he'll even tell his boss "not now" precisely because he's getting work done.

They don't have private offices at headquarters, it's that 'living room vibe' type of space instead, but if they did (and they did in previous companies he's worked for) a closed door means "don't disturb! working!". Without the private offices fellow engineers accomplish that same feat in his company by putting on headphones while coding.
You do not bother a guy with headphones on to barrage him with whatever you happen to be thinking off at the moment... doing so would be rude at the best, and totally unacceptable to the general workflow of the project. Instead you ping him on chat, so that he has the option to ignore you if need be, or seek you out if the interruption might be helpful.

Oh and... starting to erase his whiteboard? If you're looking to loose your life I might recommend it... otherwise you stay the fuck away.

The type of behavior you describe isn't common practice within the software engineer culture... it's the behavior of a rude asshole who has trouble working together with others.

PS: Just asked my husband to read this post to see if I accurately represented how he'd feel about it. His reaction: "You weren't harsh enough on the guy. I've worked with that type of person before. EVERYBODY hates working with them. They're widely considered a blight that drags the whole team down because they're incapable of coordinating their workflow with others in a constructive and well-mannered way. They're not considered to be 'extroverts'. Extroverts are the type of guy who bounces around like that with people actually signaling (by lack of headphones, hanging out by the beer fridge/game rooms, etc) that they're LOOKING for that type of interaction. And the office is full of empty whiteboards exactly to facilitate that spur of the moment idea bouncing between people who are LOOKING to have it.
Guys like him who consider their idea flow to take priority before everybody else's, and interrupt other's train of thought to get that collaborative idea bouncing, are considered rude assholes indeed, and people avoid them as the plague.
And you NEVER EVER touch somebody else's whiteboard with an active flow on it. EVER. A guy on my team who made the mistake of touching somebody else's whiteboard a second time after having been told not to do that after the first infraction would be fired because of his inability to work with others."

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/23/2015 8:45:31 AM >

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 9:12:03 AM

UllrsIshtar

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Oh, and something else:

I find it ironic that apparently some manager type in your company decided to spend the dough to get an expert in there to do a Myers-Briggs evaluation as a team building exercise to get your team to work better together. (Probably because the subtle and not so subtle complaints from coworkers about the lack of a productive team collaboration were becoming too plentiful to ignore.)

You apparently took some small thing from that: you mentioned in another post that you finally understand that the people you've long considered incompetent idiots apparently are not, they just happen to work in a different way than you do.

Yet at the same time, you're here again exclaiming that your style of working isn't rude or interruptive at all, despite the fact that everybody here has in consensus told you that you do come across to them like that.

Apparently your manager has wasted his money on the Myers-Briggs expert, because it sounds like the one guy on his team who really needed to learn to work better with others didn't get the message...

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/23/2015 9:26:53 AM >

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 9:15:00 AM

Lucylastic

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I would throw something heavy at him. Often.
DO NOT TOUCH my work board, just DO NOT.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 10:41:47 AM

DesFIP

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Interestingly, his attitude toward women is the same as his attitude toward his coworkers. He considers everyone else of less value than him.

And thus wonders why he can't get a date.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 10:50:27 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

How long have you worked in the Silicon Valley solving problems that had never been solved before you solved them?

Whether you have or haven't it doesn't excuse rudeness and a lack of respect.

Hell, I used to do travel for the head of a software company that had a well earned reputation as an asshole....and he treated me better than you treat your co-workers.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 11:47:21 AM

Nthrall

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I think it may be a mental problem (i.e. thinking wrong) rather than an attitude problem. Observe her getting ready. Is she doing tasks that could be left till later? Does she have to make everything "just right" before setting out? Does she leave the bits necessary for going out till last? It's only recently that I've realised that it takes me half an hour to leave the bathroom after a bath - in my head it was just five minutes. Sometimes when I think I have plenty of time I forget to clock watch, and then become late. Use timers 5, 10, 20 mins before departure? If she's carrying mental baggage then meeting you at all may be more difficult for her than for most folk, and hence is kind of complimentary. Good luck with it.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/23/2015 2:53:16 PM

MercTech

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Perhaps they believe in the Hollywood diva concept of "fashionably late".
Some people do think that if you are on time or early you seem desperate.

Personally, for social occasions, plus or minus 15 minutes can be accounting for traffic. A half hour deserves a call or text.

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RE: How To Handle People Who Are Always Late? - 9/24/2015 10:10:20 AM

cloudboy

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At first I was going to say anything over 5-10 minutes late is rude, especially without notice. BUT, a single mother of two children --- getting out the door can almost be a mission impossible episode. For parents of young children, I think you have to be more understanding and have a way to distract yourself when they are running late. In some ways a single parent may be making a monumental effort to see you.

A fluid exchange of ETA also might help. 30 mintues before you are supposed to meet, you might text, "just checking in and looking forward to seeing you, what's your ETA?" This makes your date time a target and not a fixed point of irritation for you and a "failure" for her.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/24/2015 10:19:17 AM >

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