RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US?

RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (Full Version)

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blnymph -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 10:14:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph since a "universal" language is not to be expected the alternative might be to learn a few more May I ask what prompted you to learn a second language? Butch My grandmother was bilingual (German +1), my father was bilingual (German +1), the kids in my class at school spoke 4 different languages including German, apart from those languages I picked up (partly) we were taught 3 more languages at school. I picked up bits and pieces of a few more afterwards. Watching foreign language telly helps (if you know what is going on there, or with subtitles), listening to radio - these days all free on the net. The main barrier in my experience is getting used to "odd" sounds until they begin to make some sense, then trying reproducing them.

blnymph -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 10:23:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: It simply makes sense that when you travel (no matter where in the world) to learn a least a few phrases of the local language.. God yes. Enough, at least, so that you don't look bloody rude. I know so many people, even seasoned travellers, who don't bother. as long as you dont botch it up too, too badly.. like some corporations have done when trying to market in a new country.. [:D] 10 Funniest Badly-Translated Ads http://www.oddee.com/item_97732.aspx my fav translation marketing campaign is... "U.S. beer-making giant Coors apparently thought their slogan, “Turn it loose!” would translate to Spanish just fine. Unfortunately, “Turn it Loose” came out, “Suffer from Diarrhea” instead. Frankly, if you've ever had Coors... this slogan isn't too far off the mark. " [sm=rofl.gif] I wonder how well (or badly?) those language translation apps for smart phones work.. another famous one (if I remember right it was Sunlight washing powder) imagine an ad with 3 pictures: dirty laundry - washing - clean laundry complete failure - no sales at all - in Arab countries until someone told them that Arabs read from right to left ...

Kirata -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 10:29:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 10 Funniest Badly-Translated Ads http://www.oddee.com/item_97732.aspx my fav translation marketing campaign is... "U.S. beer-making giant Coors apparently thought their slogan, “Turn it loose!” would translate to Spanish just fine. Unfortunately, “Turn it Loose” came out, “Suffer from Diarrhea” instead. Frankly, if you've ever had Coors... this slogan isn't too far off the mark. " [sm=rofl.gif] I wonder how well (or badly?) those language translation apps for smart phones work.. Actually, that's one of the better arguments (in my opinion) for making English the official language. Translations of our founding documents and legal codes, no matter how well done, can only be approximations at best. Even when another language has a matching word, it can often carry a slightly different connotation in its native usage. It's just the nature of the beast. K.

blnymph -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 11:58:08 AM)
It's just what diplomats do all day when international treaties in several languages are negotiated.

tj444 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 12:06:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 10 Funniest Badly-Translated Ads http://www.oddee.com/item_97732.aspx my fav translation marketing campaign is... "U.S. beer-making giant Coors apparently thought their slogan, “Turn it loose!” would translate to Spanish just fine. Unfortunately, “Turn it Loose” came out, “Suffer from Diarrhea” instead. Frankly, if you've ever had Coors... this slogan isn't too far off the mark. " [sm=rofl.gif] I wonder how well (or badly?) those language translation apps for smart phones work.. Actually, that's one of the better arguments (in my opinion) for making English the official language. Translations of our founding documents and legal codes, no matter how well done, can only be approximations at best. Even when another language has a matching word, it can often carry a slightly different connotation in its native usage. It's just the nature of the beast. K. oh, sure.. take the fun out of it.. [8\|] I like seeing Big Corps screw up like that, it shows (everyone) just how arrogant they are.. the unfortunate part is that their arrogance doesnt end with fairly harmless stuff like marketing faux pas, it is usually thru the entire company's operations.. like Blue Bell ice cream.. they were trying to kill their loyal customers by selling contaminated ice cream for years, then there is those Peanut douches that knowingly & deliberately sold bad peanut butter (3 just got long prison sentences), and there are plants here in Houston (Dupont, Sun Edison) where workers were injured & even died due to OSHA violations.. the list goes on..

Kirata -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 12:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph It's just what diplomats do all day when international treaties in several languages are negotiated. And I'm sure they're very careful in their choice of words and phrasing, for exactly the reasons I stated. K.

blnymph -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 12:29:10 PM)
not to forget a maximum degree of precision

kdsub -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 1:29:22 PM)
quote: My grandmother was bilingual (German +1), my father was bilingual (German +1), the kids in my class at school spoke 4 different languages including German, apart from those languages I picked up (partly) we were taught 3 more languages at school. I picked up bits and pieces of a few more afterwards. Watching foreign language telly helps (if you know what is going on there, or with subtitles), listening to radio - these days all free on the net. The main barrier in my experience is getting used to "odd" sounds until they begin to make some sense, then trying reproducing them I must say you are very good with English...as if I am to judge. I asked because I believe in most cases a second language is learned out of necessity or proximity. Yes we are taught a language or languages in our schools and after years of not using it at all... it is lost... at least with me... I can however cuss you out in many tongues...I am particularly good in Vietnamese ...lol I live in an area that until recently you had to drive a 1,000 miles before you heard another language so there was no need other than a credit in school to learn...and none to use…. That is my excuse and I am sticking to it. Butch

blnymph -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 2:14:43 PM)
I once read Vietnamese might be one of the few existing languages with potential for a universal language - no irregularities, no complicated grammar, and once you get your tongue around something like "Nguyen" no real obstacles in pronounciation, and wysiwyg spelling. I did not try so far though.

tj444 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 2:17:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: My grandmother was bilingual (German +1), my father was bilingual (German +1), the kids in my class at school spoke 4 different languages including German, apart from those languages I picked up (partly) we were taught 3 more languages at school. I picked up bits and pieces of a few more afterwards. Watching foreign language telly helps (if you know what is going on there, or with subtitles), listening to radio - these days all free on the net. The main barrier in my experience is getting used to "odd" sounds until they begin to make some sense, then trying reproducing them I must say you are very good with English...as if I am to judge. I asked because I believe in most cases a second language is learned out of necessity or proximity. Yes we are taught a language or languages in our schools and after years of not using it at all... it is lost... at least with me... I can however cuss you out in many tongues...I am particularly good in Vietnamese ...lol I live in an area that until recently you had to drive a 1,000 miles before you heard another language so there was no need other than a credit in school to learn...and none to use…. That is my excuse and I am sticking to it. Butch yeah, thats true for me too.. I was taught french in school (rural Alberta) but I have never been east of Alberta so never used it.. oddly enough the the only thing i can remember in French is how to ask for a cigarette but since i dont smoke its a sorta stupid thing to remember.. I dont even know if it was Canadian French or France French that we were taught..

NorthernGent -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 2:20:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Just any form of English ha! I mean, the fact that a Brit can understand American English and vice versa. And Canadians and Australians also got their own style of English but it's not alien to the point where most English speakers cannot understand. But the basics are there. Most of the words are mostly the same. I had someone criticized my English as broken English in another post. I try to minimized the fractures, but it's still there prominently I am sure, but in truth, in real life, I speak even more broken especially with local people. Our local English is spoken very lazily, the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary words in a sentence as possible. For example, maybe in western English, it's like, "Will you please switch on the lights?" We would say, "On the lights please" You don't know much about England. If it helps: Geordie accent (Newcastle about 8 miles from me) from an old early '80s television programme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFlPAXVV7eY And the other bloke standing up is from the West Country so you'd be struggling to understand him either. Scouser (Liverpool): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDaTTVR2JXY Just two examples from Northern England. You'll find it easier to understand an American speaking English?

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 3:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I was hoping they work well. I've only seen the ads but I thought it was a wonderful idea for those who travel. The stories I could tell you about the unbelievably comedic errors that I have personally seen come out of those translation programs. If you already have a familiarity with the language, it's not so bad. You can easily catch errors and learn to identify structures that are likely to cause confusion. But if not, it's like a slapstick comedy.

bounty44 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 4:39:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Geordie accent (Newcastle about 8 miles from me) from an old early '80s television programme. ive gotten to travel all over England when I was younger and learned to differentiate some of the accents but I hadn't heard the Geordie until I saw Cheryl cole on tv a few years ago...I absolutely love it...

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/6/2015 5:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 as long as you dont botch it up too, too badly.. like some corporations have done when trying to market in a new country.. [:D] 10 Funniest Badly-Translated Ads http://www.oddee.com/item_97732.aspx my fav translation marketing campaign is... "U.S. beer-making giant Coors apparently thought their slogan, “Turn it loose!” would translate to Spanish just fine. Unfortunately, “Turn it Loose” came out, “Suffer from Diarrhea” instead. Frankly, if you've ever had Coors... this slogan isn't too far off the mark. " [sm=rofl.gif] I wonder how well (or badly?) those language translation apps for smart phones work.. another famous one (if I remember right it was Sunlight washing powder) imagine an ad with 3 pictures: dirty laundry - washing - clean laundry complete failure - no sales at all - in Arab countries until someone told them that Arabs read from right to left ... My all time favorite...the 'Got milk?' campaign when it was released in Spanish-speaking countries. The Spanish equivalent of got milk is ¿Tiene leche?. So with that, ads were all over the place with ¿Tiene leche? captioning their now iconic image of people (usually celebrities) with milk mustaches. Except that ¿Tiene leche? is common slang (at least in Mexico and with native speakers in the US) for "Are you lactating?". That's what Hispanics saw when they looked at the ads with people with milk mustaches. Today in those ads they just use 'got milk?' and the Spanish for 'where's your mustache?'.

NorthernGent -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/7/2015 1:09:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Geordie accent (Newcastle about 8 miles from me) from an old early '80s television programme. ive gotten to travel all over England when I was younger and learned to differentiate some of the accents but I hadn't heard the Geordie until I saw Cheryl cole on tv a few years ago...I absolutely love it... Whenever I go abroad nobody assumes I'm English. They can't place the accent and usually suggest Scottish or Irish although they know it isn't really, but because the accent is up and down the only thing they can think of is Scottish or Irish. You won't meet many people from the North East of England abroad because it's quite a conservative, insular area where people tend to stick to what they know rather than searching out pastures new. Our accent is very distinctive and I'd imagine most not from the area would struggle to understand it. People in this country struggle to understand us, let alone someone from another country.

bounty44 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/8/2015 4:31:20 AM)
indeed, when I first heard Cheryl cole I wondered if he was irish---there seems to be some similarities. I got to visit York once when I was in England, and also traversed part of northern england from its east coast to the west coast of Scotland. am also a big fan of all the james herriot books!

Greta75 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/8/2015 4:42:45 AM)
quote: Stick an Aussie, a Scot, a Geordie, a Brummie, a Canadian, a New Yorker, someone from the Bronx and Luisiana in a conference and you'd need a translator for each and every one of them even though they are all speaking 'English' Considering I speak with my own local accent, neither British nor American, I have no problem understanding scottish, aussie, geordie, canadians, etc and I still haven't met an American I couldn't understand, even with the thickest southern accent. I mean, I can understand enough to communicate, if they use some local slang words, can easily ask and learn what it means, but there are enough similar words to understand what they are saying. Because fact of the matter is, people from all these different places, got their own slang when they speak to their own people, but also know how to communicate in common English when speaking to foreigners. Many of them will be aware that certain words are only understandable within their own sub community of English, but will seldom use them when conversing with foreigners anyway. Then again, of course, although I meet many nationalities from all over the world, but for them to be working here, they gotta be pretty educated and used to conversing with many people of different accent and nationalities.

Greta75 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/8/2015 4:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx How many times have you been to n. korea? If you have not been there how do you know of this oppression? You know North Korea is now a popular holiday destination for Singaporeans. And I have a few friends who has been there. Just to brag they been to North Korea. The place is completely crazy. You are not allowed to go anywhere without a guide licensed by the government, and there are many places you are forbidden to wander to. There are no shopping malls. Nothing. What kind of country is so restrictive that, no tourist is allowed free and easy access to roam the and explore the country on their own! To do so is a jailable offense. Even Saudi ain't that crazy, although of course, you can only go in there for work purposes. I am probably never gonna go to North Korea after hearing the experiences of my friends. For them, it's interesting, for me, it's not my ideal holiday. Really run down accommodation, even though it's their best. Horrible food, nothing to do but sit and drink with your guide. And worst of all, no freedom to roam and explore, I'd be bored to death. I love to explore a country free and easy. All they bring you to is all the monuments of their leader, for you to go give flowers and show respect.

Greta75 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/8/2015 5:04:01 AM)
quote: Even we don't say "Will you please switch on the lights?". lol. That would be very 'proper' text-book English and hardly ever used except for English exams. We say "lights please", or just "lights?". That's even shorter, never thought of that, love short sentences that explains all that is necessary. quote: Your most prominent mistake in written English is using the wrong words because of the way you speak. Example: using "his" when you really mean "he's" (slang for 'he is') and not using the '..ed' (past version) of a word like 'surprise' instead of 'surprised'. But I've gotten used to your posts so although it sometimes takes several readings, I generally get the gist. I've actually completely given up on using "He's" totally, and only stick to "his", because until today, I can't tell when to use "his" or "he's" and don't understand the explanation for it. And when you speak, they both sound the same anyway. My English is very poor I admit, because, I was only educated in English until 12 yr old. Then it ended. On top of that, the normal english we use here is all broken english as it's been change to our style, and as with any english speaking culture, we invent our own new words and throw into it too.Which I seldom use here. The lack of "ed" for in my words are just pure laziness. Many times I notice, but can't be bothered to edit. I actually edit alot in my posts, mostly trying to fix my broken english to sound less broken, especially when I read back, I notice something here and there. But looks like the clean up version is still not very good.

Kirata -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/8/2015 5:49:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I've actually completely given up on using "He's" totally, and only stick to "his", because until today, I can't tell when to use "his" or "he's" and don't understand the explanation for it. And when you speak, they both sound the same anyway. Well, in what is amusingly referred to as "standard English" they shouldn't sound the same. "His" should sound roughly like "hiz" and "he's" should sound roughly like "heez". You use the first when you mean the possessive pronoun ("that book is his") while the second is a contraction of "he is" ("he is sleeping now"). quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 My English is very poor I admit, because, I was only educated in English until 12 yr old. Then it ended. On top of that, the normal english we use here is all broken english as it's been change to our style, and as with any english speaking culture, we invent our own new words and throw into it too.Which I seldom use here. I've never had any difficulty reading your posts. K.

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