RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US?

RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 8:27:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph Babel is the world - from biblical times until present btw - the perfect historical example for your question is England conquered in 1066 by French-speaking Normans (who had themselves switched to French from Norse a few generations earlier). The ruling classes kept speaking French for centuries and did everything to establish it as the language of the land. And what happened: the Anglo-Saxons took over certain portions of vocabulary (like "language" and "vocabulary") and after a few more generations all political attempts were useless and forgotten, and just a curio chapter for historians, and language had taken over the meaning of speech, and the meat was no longer given the name of the animal, and the result was English. These things happened in the past, and happen in the present, and will happen in the future: Languages are for communicating with one another, and people use whatever enables them to communicate - whether one language or another. Forbidding a language only ever worked by severest political suppression in everyday life - or not at all. I am quite familiar with the liguistic chaos resulting from the Norman invasion. That was the result of the invading forces conquring the people already there. So we should surrender to the illegals". Your example of Babel is the world (combined with your apparent assumption that I didn't know it's origin) is seriously flawed, it does not require that people attempt to do business on a daily basis with people with which there is no common language. I have tried to do business with people who saw no need to learn English. Fortunately there was no other business because it took 10 minutes to sign language getting them bread and teaching them how to use the gas pumps. And they got irritated with me for not speaking Spanish, but English was to much trouble, if I moved to Mexico, I would learn Mexican they should learn English here. There is no "flaw" - Babel is everyday reality, as your own example shows. It might not be a comfort, but even if your customers wont learn English overnight, their children will. Excuse me but I fear you missed two of the most important aspects of the England after 1066 example - the effects of time, and the influence of the majority in numbers in comparison to powerpressure from "above" - btw what made California which in my knowledge was part of New Spain/Mexico for a few centuries, an English-speaking region, after having been a Spanish-speaking one? Because after 1849 gold rush the vast majority of the people who lived there spoke English. And thier children will not learn English if we pretend, as the pro illegal immigrant people want to, that it is our responsibility to learn Spanish. Remember when asked about programes to ensure that those children learn English, El Presidnete Obama stated that it is more important for the rest of us to learn Spanish. What we have here in relation to Latin American illegal immigration is as if your influcts of Muslim refugees declared that you should learn Arabic rather than them learning any of the 27 languages the UE recognizes. The liguistic question is just one piece of an overall attack on our soverignty.

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 10:45:32 AM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD As oppossed to the slippery slope of making the majority "accomodate" a minority language so that minority won't feel oppressed. Check it out dude...white people is a plurality and no longer the majority so your arguement seems a little flacid?[8\|] What other accomodations will be demanded. Keep in mind that La Rasa is already demanding that CA and the southwest be ceeded back to Mexico. Once again you are a lying sack of shit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico) The National Council of La Raza (NCLR)—the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States—has stated on its website that it "has never supported and does not endorse the notion of a Reconquista (the right of Mexico to reclaim land in the southwestern United States) or Aztlán."[21]

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 10:47:14 AM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD I which country did people come into the nation from the outside and demand that people in that country learn their language? That is what we are dealing with. The u.s. dumbass. No one spoke engilsh when we got here.

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 12:13:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: No, it doesn't. If a person does not speak English, why should they be forced to learn English? I really really really do not understand this point of view from Libs, honestly... it's like...., I don't see anything wrong for example, if I want citizenship in Japan, I should learn Japanese if I want citizenship in Spain, I should learn Spanish! "Freedom of Speech" If someone wishes to speak in another language, that is their freedom. If their only known language is something other than English, are they required to know English in America? According to the US Constitution the answer is 'no'. There are many pockets around America in which the primary language spoken is...NOT...English. If you wandered into those pockets, should you be responsible for knowing their language? Per your own 'words', 'yes', you would have to know the language of the land (er...pocket of land devoted to that language). Right now, if one wanders into an area that has many people from the Middle East, and speaks English to them, is generally understood. Someone within that community knows both English and Arabic and could serve as a translator if asked/paid nicely. But if we make English the official language, its only fair that when you wander into those locations, you speak THEIR LANGUAGE. Fair is fair, right? The attitude upon conservatives is draconian. Its mean and it is also uneducated. Many people come to this nation not because people speak English, but, because it is a good nation. That knowing the English language can be a good thing to have, but not required, serves to our best interests. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 It's call assimilating. It should be compulsory. New immigrants should be capable of communicating with the locals as a condition to live in that country! For a simple reason, like if you go to Korea for example, nothing is in English, everything is in Korean! Why shouldn't someone who wants citizenship in Korea, be compulsory to learn Korean. Imagine their tax forms, and everything is gonna be in Korean! Really? We should require people to CONFORM to our viewpoints or else? Ok, all conservatives in the nation have to CONFORM to liberal thought processes. Have a problem with that? Of course not! If we can control the language someone uses in the nation, why not their thought processes? After we control their thought processes, we control their thoughts. Now we have a nation of mindless servants, serving the ruling class of individuals in anyway they want. Tell me, is that America? It certainly isn't to myself.... quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Is that unreasonable? Very. Unconstitutional as well....

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 12:21:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Since you claim your purpose is to facilitate communication why pick english? Why not esperanto? I didn't know Spanish is the majority language in the US. I had the impression it's number 2. And I didn't know they teach Maths, Science, Geography, History etc in Spanish. If Spanish was indeed the majority language of the US, then by all means, make it Spanish! How about we just ignore the silly notion all together? That was when Spanish becomes the nation's most spoken language, we do not have to spend billions (if not tens of billions) of dollars converting everything from English to Spanish. Kind of a waste of money. Aren't conservatives the 'champions' fighting against government waste? Oh, its 'OK' when they are wasting money....(forgot....)

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 12:24:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: BamaD I which country did people come into the nation from the outside and demand that people in that country learn their language? That is what we are dealing with. The u.s. dumbass. No one spoke engilsh when we got here. So which native American language is spoken? Or is it depended on region that tribe would have lived within? How fast would conservatives bitch about having to learn a language of a people they enjoyed putting down? Faster than you can say 'ah....'.

joether -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 12:40:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph Babel is the world - from biblical times until present btw - the perfect historical example for your question is England conquered in 1066 by French-speaking Normans (who had themselves switched to French from Norse a few generations earlier). The ruling classes kept speaking French for centuries and did everything to establish it as the language of the land. And what happened: the Anglo-Saxons took over certain portions of vocabulary (like "language" and "vocabulary") and after a few more generations all political attempts were useless and forgotten, and just a curio chapter for historians, and language had taken over the meaning of speech, and the meat was no longer given the name of the animal, and the result was English. These things happened in the past, and happen in the present, and will happen in the future: Languages are for communicating with one another, and people use whatever enables them to communicate - whether one language or another. Forbidding a language only ever worked by severest political suppression in everyday life - or not at all. I am quite familiar with the liguistic chaos resulting from the Norman invasion. That was the result of the invading forces conquring the people already there. So we should surrender to the illegals". Your example of Babel is the world (combined with your apparent assumption that I didn't know it's origin) is seriously flawed, it does not require that people attempt to do business on a daily basis with people with which there is no common language. I have tried to do business with people who saw no need to learn English. Fortunately there was no other business because it took 10 minutes to sign language getting them bread and teaching them how to use the gas pumps. And they got irritated with me for not speaking Spanish, but English was to much trouble, if I moved to Mexico, I would learn Mexican they should learn English here. There is no "flaw" - Babel is everyday reality, as your own example shows. It might not be a comfort, but even if your customers wont learn English overnight, their children will. Excuse me but I fear you missed two of the most important aspects of the England after 1066 example - the effects of time, and the influence of the majority in numbers in comparison to powerpressure from "above" - btw what made California which in my knowledge was part of New Spain/Mexico for a few centuries, an English-speaking region, after having been a Spanish-speaking one? Because after 1849 gold rush the vast majority of the people who lived there spoke English. And thier children will not learn English if we pretend, as the pro illegal immigrant people want to, that it is our responsibility to learn Spanish. Remember when asked about programes to ensure that those children learn English, El Presidnete Obama stated that it is more important for the rest of us to learn Spanish. What we have here in relation to Latin American illegal immigration is as if your influcts of Muslim refugees declared that you should learn Arabic rather than them learning any of the 27 languages the UE recognizes. The liguistic question is just one piece of an overall attack on our soverignty. HAHAHA.... Your a hypocrite! Your trying to weasel your way out of a logical trap blnymph set. Ain't going to happen! The majority of people in 1849 California spoke a mixture of Spanish and English predominately. Yet there were other languages in use as well: Russian, Chinese, French, and even Arabic. All these people seemed to get along to form a stable state, given the language barrier. Because MONEY TALKS..... On one had you tried to say that "People should speak the native language". Yet the native language of that area would be "...native Californians spoke over 300 dialects of approximately 100 distinct languages." (SOURCE 1) Which of those languages should people in California be using? But then the 'argument' of yours becomes, "People should speak English because its the most used language". Actually, binary is the most used language. When you communicate across the internet; your computer TRANSLATES English into binary. Try to guess how often binary is 'spoken' in California right now compared to English and Spanish...COMBINED! According to this 'silly' argument of yours, the people is California should be speaking Binary. Failing on that 'argument' as well, it becomes "English is the language of the land spoken". Ok, so when the number of Spanish speaking individuals outnumbers English speaking individuals; we'll switch things to Spanish, right? In which case we'll have to redo all the documents at the federal level. Converting them from English to Spanish. Do you have...ANY IDEA...how much that would cost? So if we DONT have a law making English the official language known, we can carry on as normal and save the taxpayer ALOT of money!

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 1:00:19 PM)
ORIGINAL: joether The majority of people in 1849 California spoke a mixture of Spanish and English predominately. Spanish was the dominant language spoken in 1849. By 1860 more than a million english speakers had made english the dominant language. On one had you tried to say that "People should speak the native language". Yet the native language of that area would be "...native Californians spoke over 300 dialects of approximately 100 distinct languages." (SOURCE 1) Which of those languages should people in California be using? Your source points out that those languages existed prior to european contact and that after contact, spanish became the dominat language.

blnymph -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 2:57:12 PM)
I can assure everyone that speaking or learning Spanish will neither cause harm nor make you forget your English when I order Tapas in my favourite Spanish bar hablar español will make the padron smile - and try his best German - not because he has to but because he likes to

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 3:20:06 PM)
Your trying to weasel your way out of a logical trap blnymph set. Ain't going to happen! The majority of people in 1849 California spoke a mixture of Spanish and English predominately. Once again you failed to read what I actually said. I said after 1849, the gold rush brought hundreds of thousands of ENGLISH SPEAKING people in to a state so sparsely populated by Spanish speaking people that during Mexican war Fremont conquered it with less than 100 Americans, most of whom were "militiamen", that is people who showed up with their own guns to help him.

bounty44 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 3:32:48 PM)
wrangling about national languages aside for a moment, ive been recently reminded of that when musicians from many foreign countries sing songs in English, they fairly much lose their accent to the point where you could not guess English is not their primary language. (I wonder if that occurs for English speakers singing songs in other languages?) this is reminding me of an early interview I saw with john lennon when the beatles came to the states, and the interviewer asked him something like "hey you speak with an English accent but when you sing, you don't, why?" and lennon replied "it sells records."

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/27/2015 4:01:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Your trying to weasel your way out of a logical trap blnymph set. Ain't going to happen! The majority of people in 1849 California spoke a mixture of Spanish and English predominately. Once again you failed to read what I actually said. I said after 1849, the gold rush brought hundreds of thousands of ENGLISH SPEAKING people in to a state so sparsely populated by Spanish speaking people that during Mexican war Fremont conquered it with less than 100 Americans, most of whom were "militiamen", that is people who showed up with their own guns to help him. Bullshit!

tj444 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/30/2015 10:05:35 AM)
nm..

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (9/30/2015 10:16:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Your trying to weasel your way out of a logical trap blnymph set. Ain't going to happen! The majority of people in 1849 California spoke a mixture of Spanish and English predominately. Once again you failed to read what I actually said. I said after 1849, the gold rush brought hundreds of thousands of ENGLISH SPEAKING people in to a state so sparsely populated by Spanish speaking people that during Mexican war Fremont conquered it with less than 100 Americans, most of whom were "militiamen", that is people who showed up with their own guns to help him. Bullshit! Fact!

thompsonx -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/1/2015 7:14:20 AM)
Freemont had about 90 regulars, and about 500 marines/blujackets from sloat/stocton. He had gelespi and he had the california militia and a detachment of mounted native americans. All in all somewhat more than the 100 you claim.

Greta75 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/1/2015 7:57:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether if we make English the official language, its only fair that when you wander into those locations, you speak THEIR LANGUAGE. Fair is fair, right? Seriously joe, you can't be serious! Why are you so threatened by a unifying official language? It will bring people together if EVERYONE can communicate with each other in one common language in one country. It doesn't make sense to bring areas into it. It's like every French citizen should be able to speak French, every American citizen should be able to speak English. Simple logic. Does this stop French people from speaking other languages? No! Most Europeans can speak 3 languages! quote: Really? We should require people to CONFORM to our viewpoints or else? Absolutely 100%. If you don't think immigrants migrating to the US should conform to your viewpoints, then, why don't you allow the Muslims to practice Sharia laws in your country huh? Since it's all about catering to their culture? When I listen to Libs point of view, like yourself, I feel so far away from you. I think my entire country is more con leaning, just because, we don't even debate about these stuffs. There is no question that if we move to another country, we conform to their culture. And if foreigners move to ours, they conform to our culture. Nobody even argues this point. For example, if I go Japan, I am gonna bow for greetings, because I am in their country, and I should respect their culture. But if they come to Singapore, they should shake my hand, and do what we do and respect our culture. Some European cultures does the cheek to cheek kissing greet, and if I was there I do it, but in my country, I'd stiffly stretch out my hand and not gonna handing over my face to be pecked. I don't understand this mentality of bending backwards to every single different culture in the world who chooses to settle in your country. And super crazy part is. You are a old country. My country is 50 yr old, also filled with immigrants. Our chinese are like the Caucasian who invaded land owned by native Singaporeans, who are Malays, and now we are the majority. We have many different cultures and now, we are able to have a unifying Singaporean identity. But in the US, you guys after so many hundreds of years, are still arguing what it means to be an American. And then start bickering about all the minority different cultures that migrated there, and why does one culture have more rights over the other. The question is, what is the unifying American culture? What makes a person American? And not a Black, not a hispanic, not a white. What is the unifying thing that will identify them as American? This part is not yet established, which is crazy! What is uniquely American that regardless which country they came from, when they choose to be an American, what is that thing that makes them uniquely American? I think American English would be a great start. American English is sooo unique to Americans! They change the spelling, change pronouncation of the words. So I think all immigrants should at the very least, speak American English.

Greta75 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/1/2015 8:12:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether How about we just ignore the silly notion all together? That was when Spanish becomes the nation's most spoken language, we do not have to spend billions (if not tens of billions) of dollars converting everything from English to Spanish. Kind of a waste of money. Aren't conservatives the 'champions' fighting against government waste? Oh, its 'OK' when they are wasting money....(forgot....) If there is evidence Spanish is the majority language in the US, the one time pain of making Spanish the official language of US I think is worth the long term benefits of a unified language. It doesn't have to be Spanish. Spanish or English is just an example of what it could be. But pragmatically, English makes more sense as more nations in the world speak English as second or third language than any other languages. I don't think enough countries speak Spanish to justify Spanish. But then again, there is a whole south america. Either way, it doesn't matter, EVEN if Spanish was the unifying language. English can be second language.

tj444 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/1/2015 8:29:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 ...But I've never heard an American accent that was difficult to understand, even the thickest southern kind. I found it very difficult to understand an awful lot of Americans when I lived there. The way they pronounced words often had me confused. For instance, I couldn't distinguish between 'cup' and 'cop' unless I heard the context. And the thick southern drawl just made me cringe because I barely understood a word that was being said. But there again, trying to understand a Scot or Geordie in full flow is just as bad [:D] omg.. when I first came to Houston I could not understand most black people.. they speak differently.. asks isnt pronouced as "asks", its pronounced more like "axs"... Gawd it was so embarrassing to ask a clerk to repeat what he said 3 times and i still didnt understand.. I have gotten better at it but still get tripped up if someone has a heavy accent and speaks fast.. In CA nearly everyone could tell I was Canadian as soon as I started to speak.. here, few seem to be able to tell.. [;)]

tj444 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/1/2015 8:36:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: joether How about we just ignore the silly notion all together? That was when Spanish becomes the nation's most spoken language, we do not have to spend billions (if not tens of billions) of dollars converting everything from English to Spanish. Kind of a waste of money. Aren't conservatives the 'champions' fighting against government waste? Oh, its 'OK' when they are wasting money....(forgot....) If there is evidence Spanish is the majority language in the US, the one time pain of making Spanish the official language of US I think is worth the long term benefits of a unified language. It doesn't have to be Spanish. Spanish or English is just an example of what it could be. But pragmatically, English makes more sense as more nations in the world speak English as second or third language than any other languages. I don't think enough countries speak Spanish to justify Spanish. But then again, there is a whole south america. Either way, it doesn't matter, EVEN if Spanish was the unifying language. English can be second language. well... "Asians to surpass Hispanics as largest group of US immigrants by 2065 The tipping point is expected to come in 2055, when Asians will become the largest immigrant group at 36%, compared with Hispanics at 34% By 2065, no racial or ethnic group will hold a majority in the US, with whites holding 46% of the population, Hispanics at 24%, Asians at 14% and blacks at 13%. Currently, the country is 62% white, 18% Hispanic, 12% black and 6% Asian. " http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/28/us-immigration-asians-to-surpass-hispanics-2065 personally speaking, in addition to speaking English, I think learning to speak Spanish and Mandarin would be a smart thing..

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? (10/1/2015 10:09:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: joether if we make English the official language, its only fair that when you wander into those locations, you speak THEIR LANGUAGE. Fair is fair, right? Seriously joe, you can't be serious! Why are you so threatened by a unifying official language? It will bring people together if EVERYONE can communicate with each other in one common language in one country. It doesn't make sense to bring areas into it. Why don't we go the whole hog and demand that everyone speak the designated International language that all pilots need to learn to hold a license?? That would be English! [8D] quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: Really? We should require people to CONFORM to our viewpoints or else? Absolutely 100%. If you don't think immigrants migrating to the US should conform to your viewpoints, then, why don't you allow the Muslims to practice Sharia laws in your country huh? Since it's all about catering to their culture? That's because Sharia Law is anathema to to the western way of life; aka, women have no freedom or say and are not even treated like people let alone equals. Gays and lesbians are sentenced to death just because of their sexuality. Next???

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625