RE: Umpqua mass shooting (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/4/2015 12:05:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKite

One of these days a private citizen with a concealed carry permit is going to take out a mass shooter and the entire conversation will change.

Check the web. I've seen a number of cases...

Problem is, when there was a CCW permit holder around they didn't get to be "mass shooters". [:)]

K.


I wish they got more coverage. But I don't want them to reach that level so I can win some political points, I'm not Joe.


Like it or not, gun control is a political issue. I'd like these types of incidents (avoided deaths) to get as much ink as possible, specifically to make the PPLs shut the fuck up, getting only their side of the story out.

We need some news outlet (even fox doesn't do this to any extreme) to balance the constant bombardment of left-sided issue reporting, especially when it comes to this particular issue.

NO ONE is slamming home the fact that "Gun Free Zone" signs are not only an invitation to scumbags of every stripe, they are ineffective at what they're supposed to accomplish. Of course, that's because of the logical simplicity of: "Law breakers don't obey laws, anyway"

NO ONE is getting the word out that something like 70,000 crimes (forget mass shootings; just robberies and such) are avoided on an annual basis (I think that's the FBI estimate) by law-abiding, concerned (and yes, even scared) citizens.



Michael


You left out a 0 on the FBI estimate, Blumberg even admited once to the number being over a quarter million. They have removed that admissiom from their site, I believe.




Musicmystery -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/4/2015 1:34:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

NO ONE is slamming home the fact that "Gun Free Zone" signs are not only an invitation to scumbags of every stripe, they are ineffective at what they're supposed to accomplish. Of course, that's because of the logical simplicity of: "Law breakers don't obey laws, anyway"

Michael[/color]

OK. Agreed, "gun free zone" is just silly. I rolled my eyes the first time I saw one, and still do.

But "invitation to scumbags of every stripe"? FFS Michael.

You want reason, first learn to be reasonable.




stef -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/4/2015 1:40:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK. Agreed, "gun free zone" is just silly. I rolled my eyes the first time I saw one, and still do.

But "invitation to scumbags of every stripe"? FFS Michael.

You want reason, first learn to be reasonable.

Michael? Reasonable? Yeah, good luck with that.




Politesub53 -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/4/2015 5:09:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Really? Im curious just how liberal your source is because Mother Jones...a fairly liberal source...give a far lesser figure.

***Mother Jones tracked and mapped shooting sprees over the three decades from 1982 to May of last year ( 2014). They counted "at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii," they found.***

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/24/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-america/

Oh and BTW...has Obama been President since 82? Sometimes, it SEEMS that long.



I misread the article, it said where four or more had been shot, not killed. Even so it is a shocking figure. Your inference that I thought Obama had been president since 1982 was a futile ploy, you should do what you do best, stick your head up your arse and pretend nothing is happening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424385







thompsonx -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/4/2015 6:00:23 PM)

ORIGINAL: MrKite

One of these days a private citizen with a concealed carry permit is going to take out a mass shooter and the entire conversation will change.


Remember the wanna be joe friday in vegas?




CreativeDominant -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/5/2015 12:23:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Really? Im curious just how liberal your source is because Mother Jones...a fairly liberal source...give a far lesser figure.

***Mother Jones tracked and mapped shooting sprees over the three decades from 1982 to May of last year ( 2014). They counted "at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii," they found.***

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/24/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-america/

Oh and BTW...has Obama been President since 82? Sometimes, it SEEMS that long.



I misread the article, it said where four or more had been shot, not killed. Even so it is a shocking figure. Your inference that I thought Obama had been president since 1982 was a futile ploy, you should do what you do best, stick your head up your arse and pretend nothing is happening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424385

Leave it to you, you pompous windbag to get the article wrong, come in here with your putdown and then...when called on it...'realize' you've made a mistake but deflect it by accusing me of doing nothing.

What should I get upset about? The "nigh-on thousand incidents" of 4 or more deaths that DIDNT happen? That other sources than yours put the figure at a lot less?

***Yet his 5 and one half years of occupying the desk at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue hide a sinister statistic – America has had 20 mass shootings since he became president, and yesterday’s mass killing in Charleston now brings that total to 21. And since this is a list of shootings only, it does not include the Boston Bombing Massacre that Obama used to roll out martial law for a 24-hour period in Boston. How do you explain that?

June 17, 2015 — Charleston, SC — 9 dead. Dylann Roof allegedly opened fire inside a historically Black church in Charleston, S.C., killing 9. The next morning, Obama spoke from the White House about the shooting. “I’ve had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We don’t have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. Now is the time for mourning and for healing,” he said.



HERE ARE THE OTHER 20 MASS SHOOTINGS SINCE 2009:
February 10, 2015 — Chapel Hill, NC — 3 dead. Craig Hicks allegedly shot three Muslim students in Chapel Hill, N.C. Three days later, Obama issued a statement. “No one in the United States of America should ever be targeted because of who they are, what they look like, or how they worship,” he said.

May 23, 2014 — University of California, Santa Barbara. — 7 dead (including gunman). A drive-by shooter went on a nighttime rampage near a Santa Barbara universitycampus that left seven people dead, including the attacker, and seven others wounded, authorities said Saturday. President Obama, as of this writing, has not issued an official statement or comment on the shootings.

April 2, 2014 — Fort Hood (Second Shooting). — 3 dead, 12 injured. In a second shooting at Fort Hood, Ivan Lopez shot and killed 3, injuring a dozen more. A week later, Obama spoke at a memorial service on the base. “This tragedy tears at wounds still raw from five years ago. Once more, soldiers who survived foreign warzones were struck down here at home, where they’re supposed to be safe. We still do not yet know exactly why, but we do know this: We must honor their lives, not “in word or talk, but in deed and in truth,” he said.

September 16, 2013 — Washington, DC. — 12 dead. Aaron Alexis shot and killed 12 inside Washington’s Navy Yard. Six days later,Obama spoke at a memorial service for the victims. “Alongside the anguish of these American families, alongside the accumulated outrage so many of us feel, sometimes I fear there’s a creeping resignation that these tragedies are just somehow the way it is, that this is somehow the new normal. We can’t accept this,” he said.

December 14, 2012 — Newtown, Conn. — 27 dead (including gunman). The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary on Friday was the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, leaving 27 dead — including 20 young children. President Obama gave an emotional address, calling for “meaningful action”



September 27, 2012 — Minneapolis, Minn. — 7 dead (including gunman), 2 injured. Andrew John Engeldinger, a recently laid off employee of Accent Signage Systems, entered the office building and opened fire. (No public comments from the president.)

August 5, 2012 — Oak Creek, Wis. — 7 dead (including gunman), 4 injured. White supremacist Wade Michael Page entered a Sikh Temple, opening fire on congregants. He later shot and injured a police officer responding to the scene.

July 20, 2012 — Aurora, Colo. — 12 dead, 59 injured. During a midnight screening of “The Dark Knight Rises,” a gunman opened fire on the suburban Denver movie theater, killing 12 and injuring dozens of others. Two days later, Obama delivered a ten-minute speech from the University of Colorado that made no mention of gun control.

May 31, 2012 — Seattle, Wash. — 6 dead (including gunman). A man opened fire in a cafe, fatally wounding four people, then killed another in a carjacking before killing himself.
(No public comments from the president.)

April 2, 2012 — Oakland, Calif. — 7 dead. A former student of Oikos University, a Korean college, entered a building on the campus and shot repeatedly at random targets. (No public comments from the president)
February 22, 2012 — Norcross, Ga. — 5 dead (including gunman). A man shot and killed two of his sisters and their husbands and then himself in a Korean health spa. (No public comments from the president.)
October 12, 2011 — Seal Beach, Calif. — 8 dead, 1 injured. Scott Evans Dekraai, 41, stormed a hair salon where his ex-wife worked and killed eight people.
(No public comments from the president.)
January 8, 2011 — Tucson, Ariz. — 6 dead, 14 injured. Jared Lee Loughner, 22, opened fire in a Safeway parking lot, killing six people and injuring others including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head at point-blank range. Two months later, Obama addressed gun control issues in an op-ed for the Arizona Daily Star
August 3, 2010 — Manchester, Conn. — 9 dead (including gunman), 2 injured. A driver for Hartford Distributors killed eight people and then himself in this workplace shooting. (No public comments from the president.)
November 29, 2009 — Parkland, Wash. — 5 dead (including gunman). A Washington man walked into a coffee shop and shot four police officers execution-style. (No public comments from the president.)
November 5, 2009 — Fort Hood, Texas — 13 dead, 30 injured (including gunman). In the deadliest shooting to ever happen on an American military base, an Army Major serving as a psychiatrist went on a shooting spree that killed 13.
April 3, 2009 — Binghamton, N.Y. — 14 dead (including gunman), 4 injured. Jiverly Wong, a naturalized immigrant from Vietnam, gunned down students and employees at the American Civic Association, where he had been taking English lessons.
March 10, 2009 — Geneva County, Ala. — 11 dead (including gunman), 6 injured. A 28-year-old man killed his mother then drove ten miles to kill several members of his extended family, neighbors and a bystander. The victims ranged in age from 18 months to 74 years old. (No public comments from the president.)
March 29, 2009 — Carthage, N.C. — 8 dead, 3 injured (including gunman). A gunman opened fire on a nursing home, killing seven residents and a nurse. (No public comments from the president.)
The post Dylann Roof Is The 21st American Mass Shooting Killer Since Obama Became President appeared first on Now The End Begins.***

Source: http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=33647





BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/5/2015 12:27:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Really? Im curious just how liberal your source is because Mother Jones...a fairly liberal source...give a far lesser figure.

***Mother Jones tracked and mapped shooting sprees over the three decades from 1982 to May of last year ( 2014). They counted "at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii," they found.***

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/24/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-america/

Oh and BTW...has Obama been President since 82? Sometimes, it SEEMS that long.



I misread the article, it said where four or more had been shot, not killed. Even so it is a shocking figure. Your inference that I thought Obama had been president since 1982 was a futile ploy, you should do what you do best, stick your head up your arse and pretend nothing is happening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424385

Leave it to you, you pompous windbag to get the article wrong, come in here with your putdown and then...when called on it...'realize' you've made a mistake but deflect it by accusing me of doing nothing.

What should I get upset about? The "nigh-on thousand incidents" of 4 or more deaths that DIDNT happen? That other sources than yours put the figure at a lot less?

***Yet his 5 and one half years of occupying the desk at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue hide a sinister statistic – America has had 20 mass shootings since he became president, and yesterday’s mass killing in Charleston now brings that total to 21. And since this is a list of shootings only, it does not include the Boston Bombing Massacre that Obama used to roll out martial law for a 24-hour period in Boston. How do you explain that?

June 17, 2015 — Charleston, SC — 9 dead. Dylann Roof allegedly opened fire inside a historically Black church in Charleston, S.C., killing 9. The next morning, Obama spoke from the White House about the shooting. “I’ve had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We don’t have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. Now is the time for mourning and for healing,” he said.



HERE ARE THE OTHER 20 MASS SHOOTINGS SINCE 2009:
February 10, 2015 — Chapel Hill, NC — 3 dead. Craig Hicks allegedly shot three Muslim students in Chapel Hill, N.C. Three days later, Obama issued a statement. “No one in the United States of America should ever be targeted because of who they are, what they look like, or how they worship,” he said.

May 23, 2014 — University of California, Santa Barbara. — 7 dead (including gunman). A drive-by shooter went on a nighttime rampage near a Santa Barbara universitycampus that left seven people dead, including the attacker, and seven others wounded, authorities said Saturday. President Obama, as of this writing, has not issued an official statement or comment on the shootings.

April 2, 2014 — Fort Hood (Second Shooting). — 3 dead, 12 injured. In a second shooting at Fort Hood, Ivan Lopez shot and killed 3, injuring a dozen more. A week later, Obama spoke at a memorial service on the base. “This tragedy tears at wounds still raw from five years ago. Once more, soldiers who survived foreign warzones were struck down here at home, where they’re supposed to be safe. We still do not yet know exactly why, but we do know this: We must honor their lives, not “in word or talk, but in deed and in truth,” he said.

September 16, 2013 — Washington, DC. — 12 dead. Aaron Alexis shot and killed 12 inside Washington’s Navy Yard. Six days later,Obama spoke at a memorial service for the victims. “Alongside the anguish of these American families, alongside the accumulated outrage so many of us feel, sometimes I fear there’s a creeping resignation that these tragedies are just somehow the way it is, that this is somehow the new normal. We can’t accept this,” he said.

December 14, 2012 — Newtown, Conn. — 27 dead (including gunman). The shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary on Friday was the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, leaving 27 dead — including 20 young children. President Obama gave an emotional address, calling for “meaningful action”



September 27, 2012 — Minneapolis, Minn. — 7 dead (including gunman), 2 injured. Andrew John Engeldinger, a recently laid off employee of Accent Signage Systems, entered the office building and opened fire. (No public comments from the president.)

August 5, 2012 — Oak Creek, Wis. — 7 dead (including gunman), 4 injured. White supremacist Wade Michael Page entered a Sikh Temple, opening fire on congregants. He later shot and injured a police officer responding to the scene.

July 20, 2012 — Aurora, Colo. — 12 dead, 59 injured. During a midnight screening of “The Dark Knight Rises,” a gunman opened fire on the suburban Denver movie theater, killing 12 and injuring dozens of others. Two days later, Obama delivered a ten-minute speech from the University of Colorado that made no mention of gun control.

May 31, 2012 — Seattle, Wash. — 6 dead (including gunman). A man opened fire in a cafe, fatally wounding four people, then killed another in a carjacking before killing himself.
(No public comments from the president.)

April 2, 2012 — Oakland, Calif. — 7 dead. A former student of Oikos University, a Korean college, entered a building on the campus and shot repeatedly at random targets. (No public comments from the president)
February 22, 2012 — Norcross, Ga. — 5 dead (including gunman). A man shot and killed two of his sisters and their husbands and then himself in a Korean health spa. (No public comments from the president.)
October 12, 2011 — Seal Beach, Calif. — 8 dead, 1 injured. Scott Evans Dekraai, 41, stormed a hair salon where his ex-wife worked and killed eight people.
(No public comments from the president.)
January 8, 2011 — Tucson, Ariz. — 6 dead, 14 injured. Jared Lee Loughner, 22, opened fire in a Safeway parking lot, killing six people and injuring others including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot in the head at point-blank range. Two months later, Obama addressed gun control issues in an op-ed for the Arizona Daily Star
August 3, 2010 — Manchester, Conn. — 9 dead (including gunman), 2 injured. A driver for Hartford Distributors killed eight people and then himself in this workplace shooting. (No public comments from the president.)
November 29, 2009 — Parkland, Wash. — 5 dead (including gunman). A Washington man walked into a coffee shop and shot four police officers execution-style. (No public comments from the president.)
November 5, 2009 — Fort Hood, Texas — 13 dead, 30 injured (including gunman). In the deadliest shooting to ever happen on an American military base, an Army Major serving as a psychiatrist went on a shooting spree that killed 13.
April 3, 2009 — Binghamton, N.Y. — 14 dead (including gunman), 4 injured. Jiverly Wong, a naturalized immigrant from Vietnam, gunned down students and employees at the American Civic Association, where he had been taking English lessons.
March 10, 2009 — Geneva County, Ala. — 11 dead (including gunman), 6 injured. A 28-year-old man killed his mother then drove ten miles to kill several members of his extended family, neighbors and a bystander. The victims ranged in age from 18 months to 74 years old. (No public comments from the president.)
March 29, 2009 — Carthage, N.C. — 8 dead, 3 injured (including gunman). A gunman opened fire on a nursing home, killing seven residents and a nurse. (No public comments from the president.)
The post Dylann Roof Is The 21st American Mass Shooting Killer Since Obama Became President appeared first on Now The End Begins.***

Source: http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=33647



Hardly 57 this year is it.




Kirata -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/5/2015 11:59:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Hardly 57 this year is it.

Everything depends on your definition of a "mass shooting". The Congressional Research Service breaks them down as follows:
    ● “mass public shooting” means a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms—not including the offender(s)—within one event, and at least some of the murders occurred in a public location or locations in close geographical proximity (e.g., a workplace, school, restaurant, or other public settings), and the murders are not attributable to any other underlying criminal activity or commonplace circumstance (armed robbery, criminal competition, insurance fraud, argument, or romantic triangle);

    ● “familicide mass shooting” means a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms—not including the offender(s)—within one event, and a majority of the victims were members of the offender’s immediate or extended family, the majority of whom were murdered in one or more private residences or secluded, sparsely populated settings in close geographical proximity, and the murders are not attributable to any other underlying criminal activity or commonplace circumstance (e.g., armed robbery, criminal competition, insurance fraud, argument, or romantic triangle); and

    ● “other felony mass shooting” means a multiple victim homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms—not including the offender(s)—within one event, in one or more locations in close geographical proximity, and the murders are attributable to some other underlying criminal activity or commonplace circumstance (e.g., armed robbery, criminal competition, insurance fraud, argument, or romantic triangle).
Mass shootings like Umpqua and Newtown fall into the first category, and the count is 66 between 1999 and 2013.

Source: Mass Murder with Firearms: Incidents and Victims, 1999-2013

K.




joether -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 12:57:05 AM)

Four Americans die in a place called Benghazi....

Republicans and Tea Party scramble to attack the President and Democrats, including the future front runner for the DNC ticket in 2016: Hillary Clinton.

Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....





Kirata -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 1:17:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....

The police in Umpqua are all Democrats?

K.




tweakabelle -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 3:28:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....

The police in Umpqua are all Democrats?

K.


That's hardly his point Mr K.

It is difficult for me to comprehend a society that allows several 9/11's of its citizens to die annually due to gun violence, and seems relaxed with the criminal political negligence that allows this to occur every year, while it responds so aggressively to the one 9/11 that actually happened.

Equally the political response to 9/11 allocated hundreds of billions of dollars, and the might of the US military machine to dealing with the issue and ensuring those responsible were apprehended or killed. Yet those same politicians refuse to lift a finger to address the gun violence inside the US that is killing more of its citizens than Al Quada and its ilk ever will.

A causal observer could be forgiven for concluding that, in determining the response, the identity of the killers is far more important and carries a far higher value than the lives of past current and future US citizen-victims.




joether -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 3:47:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....

The police in Umpqua are all Democrats?


I'm sorry, you have NEVER heard of the US Congress.....

Because the Republicans there, were all up in 'arms' for over sixteen months about Benghazi. How 'enraged' are they to find the 'facts' and 'truth' of twice the number that died in Benghazi? Because I could drop a pin to the floor in that room and here the echo.

That you knew what I was talking about is just political dishonesty. Nothing new from you....




Lucylastic -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 3:49:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....

The police in Umpqua are all Democrats?

K.


theres a strawman and a half...but its a lot more sensible than some others. oh hang on...nah its not




CreativeDominant -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 6:55:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....

The police in Umpqua are all Democrats?


I'm sorry, you have NEVER heard of the US Congress.....

Because the Republicans there, were all up in 'arms' for over sixteen months about Benghazi. How 'enraged' are they to find the 'facts' and 'truth' of twice the number that died in Benghazi? Because I could drop a pin to the floor in that room and here the echo.

That you knew what I was talking about is just political dishonesty. Nothing new from you....
What sort of dishonesty was it from you to make the noxious personal attack on a poster in another thread, putting an ugly, despicable lie into their mouth that the poster never uttered?




Kirata -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 6:58:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It is difficult for me to comprehend a society that allows several 9/11's of its citizens to die annually due to gun violence, and seems relaxed with the criminal political negligence that allows this to occur every year, while it responds so aggressively to the one 9/11 that actually happened.

Equally the political response to 9/11 allocated hundreds of billions of dollars, and the might of the US military machine to dealing with the issue and ensuring those responsible were apprehended or killed. Yet those same politicians refuse to lift a finger to address the gun violence inside the US that is killing more of its citizens than Al Quada and its ilk ever will.

Well on that I agree with you. See here and here.

K.





Kirata -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 7:35:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Eighteen Americans killed or injured in a place called Umpqua Community College in the United States of America.

Number of Republicans and Tea Party scrambling to get 'the facts' and make a good 'investigation'? Zero....

The police in Umpqua are all Democrats?

That you knew what I was talking about is just political dishonesty. Nothing new from you....

Well I'm flattered you think I have superpowers, but I don't share your imaginary mind-reading abilities.

K.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 8:45:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Every single person going in for an abortion is going in to kill a human being.


You are a phoquing liar. Perhaps if you were to actually consult a doctor instead of your imaginary friend you would not put your feet in your mouth so often.
.

And you're an addlepated twerp. You can argue what the law says all you want...You can argue what personhood vs humanity vs human being entails all you want. But you're one of the ones that loves to say what science says...below IS what science says.

And I didn't need to talk to God or Jesus, I learned all this in MY Embryology classes when I became a doctor.

Basic human embryological facts
To begin with, scientifically something very radical occurs between the processes of gametogenesis and fertilization�the change from a simple part of one human being (i.e., a sperm) and a simple part of another human being (i.e., an oocyte�usually referred to as an "ovum" or "egg"), which simply possess "human life", to a new, genetically unique, newly existing, individual, whole living human being (a single-cell embryonic human zygote). That is, upon fertilization, parts of human beings have actually been transformed into something very different from what they were before; they have been changed into a single, whole human being. During the process of fertilization, the sperm and the oocyte cease to exist as such, and a new human being is produced.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html

“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.”
– Dr. Robert George

“Human embryos, whether they are formed by fertilization (natural or in vitro) or by successful somatic-cell nuclear transfer (SCNT — i.e., cloning), do have the internal resources and active disposition to develop themselves to the mature stage of a human organism, requiring only a suitable environment and nutrition. In fact, scientists distinguish embryos from other cells or clusters of cells precisely by their self-directed, integral functioning — their organismal behavior. Thus, human embryos are what the embryology textbooks say they are, namely, human organisms — living individuals of the human species — at the earliest developmental stage.” – Dr. Robert George

http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does-science-say-human-life-begins/




mnottertail -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 9:33:05 AM)

Ja, no. If such a thing is true, develop a test tube womb for them, take them out of one, put them in the clinic. All done.

Life begins scientifically when it happens, human life, like all other life, somewhat later. A fertilized seed is not a corn plant, and an embryo is not a chicken, and neither is it human. It is only life, as the black plague is life.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 9:44:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ja, no. If such a thing is true, develop a test tube womb for them, take them out of one, put them in the clinic. All done.

Life begins scientifically when it happens, human life, like all other life, somewhat later. A fertilized seed is not a corn plant, and an embryo is not a chicken, and neither is it human. It is only life, as the black plague is life.
Yeah...no.

Why don't you take your argument up with the scientists who write the Embryology texts?

When you can show me your letter from one of them agreeing with your view, then you'll have something.




mnottertail -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/6/2015 9:57:59 AM)

I do not disagree with the scientists, you take it up with them, because you disagree with them all:


http://www.lifenews.com/2015/01/08/41-quotes-from-medical-textbooks-prove-human-life-begins-at-conception/


not jus human life does not begin at conception, it begins life at conception for all things (even fucking plants), it is not to conflate that it is a human, it is as was said, a zygote, an organism, a gamete, not a human being. Dead people are humans, just not beings. (check out a dictionary even a scientific one, being means a word in the English language, with necessary and sufficient conditions when attached to nouns, can a rocking chair be a being?)




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