RE: Umpqua mass shooting

RE: Umpqua mass shooting (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:12:44 PM)
quote: Yes. It helps to bring understanding to why this evil occurred It occurred this way for only one reason... this murderer was able in our gun nut society to get his hands on killing weapons... not needed for home defense... not needed for hunting... not needed for anything but killing other humans. Butch

Kirata -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:41:47 PM)
Update: The suspect allegedly left a note behind and investigators have it, CBS News has learned. Law enforcement sources say it is several pages long and in it, the 26-year-old made statements suggesting that he may have been depressed and angry. Sources told CBS News' Senior Investigative Producer Pat Milton the multi-page typed note was a philosophical rant of someone who was mad at the world. ~CBS News Public records show Mercer was born in Britain and came to the United States as a young boy. In California, he attended the Switzer Learning Center, which describes itself as a setting for students with "moderate to severe learning disabilities, emotional issues, attention problems and behavioral disorders." ~Washington Post K.

JVoV -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:42:30 PM)
But everything I've read indicates that he never should have had access to guns at all. His mother should be investigated. He graduated in 2009 from a 'special needs' school in California. That should almost immediately raise some red flags. So were the guns legal? Whose name were they in? And are we doing enough to monitor the internet for similar threats?

kdsub -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:43:47 PM)
Yes a perfect candidate for firearm possession in the United States. Butch

Musicmystery -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:49:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph Does it matter who is targeted and "why"?? Yes. It helps to bring understanding to why this evil occurred. Many people are not comfortable with the idea that the universe is just chaotic and things "just happen" with no rhyme or reason. Who was targeted and why can help to explain motive. If a bridge collapses, wouldn't you want to know "why"? Or are you comfortable with it forever remaining a mystery because "these thing just happen"? Unless of course the victims were random. Part of your just chaotic things just happen universe. They seem to happen here a lot. Maybe that's a why to start with.

kdsub -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:50:28 PM)
quote: So were the guns legal? Whose name were they in? Legal has nothing to do with it... when you have millions of weapons and untold number of irresponsible gun owners they are easy to come by for any crazy person. An example... that i will be glad to post a link... In my hometown this week the police arrested 5 black men breaking into cars over the last few months... They vandalized only unlocked cars... 200... Of these unlocked 200 cars in my area were 10 handguns TEN in unlocked cars. Where do you think those ten guns ended up? I would lock those dumb ass gun owners up for a few months and take all their guns away and never allow them to have more in the future... stupid people should not have weapons. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:50:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Bama, just out of curiosity, how would you 'increase the penalty' when the shooter is already dead? The same way keeping me from getting a gun would bring them back to life. The only people currently considered the cause of the problem are those who have them for hunting, target practice, and self defence. When need to penalize people who get them illegally and people who misuse them. Make the penalty for illegal possession stiff enough to discourage them. Enforce what we have. Neither the Aurora nor the Charlston shooter should have been able to get a firearm legally under current law. Same with Columbine. It happens time and time again. If current law were enforced it would make a big difference. If we did something about mental health issues it would make a big difference. Enforcement of the penalties for even attempting a purchase of a firearm by a felon would make a big difference, this is only prosecuted about 1% of the time. But none of these things are inforced, they only affect criminals. Most gunaphobes want to go after those of us who follow the law. This means one of two things. A they believe in the trickle down therory of crime fighting, hit the general population and eventially it will trickle down to the criminals or B they are more interested in controlling the general population than they are in fighting crime. Don't you think that it makes more sense to aim laws at the criminal element than at the general population.

Musicmystery -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:57:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown How many school shootings have there been in the last year? 57 this year...so far. But it's good to know we don't have a gun problem. We have too many kids, apparently. Fuck,that's like 6 a month. It is also wrong I rounded,it's the begening of the 10th month(month is still young),if you round to 60 60 dived by 10 equals 6 Your math was fine, his number was wrong, in my previous post I explained some of the reasons. He got his number from someone like Blumberg who claimed 50 some-odd school shootings in the 14 months after Sandy Hook, when the FBI verified number was more like 12. Blumberg redefined school shootings to include gang activity miles from a school that included a student at that school. Well...no. The school shooting is the 142nd since 20 children and six educators died in the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook. If you want to count just this year and count broadly--meaning people were shot but not necessarily killed, we're up to 294 mass shootings. Lots of options for counts. What's the point of dismissing shootings that you feel shouldn't count as shootings? I'm no firearms expert, but to the best of my knowledge, when someone points the barrel at other people, pulls the trigger, and bullets hit those people, that's what you gun folk might call a "shooting." http://www.newsweek.com/45th-mass-shooting-america-2015-378803 FFS Bama.

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:57:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV But everything I've read indicates that he never should have had access to guns at all. His mother should be investigated. He graduated in 2009 from a 'special needs' school in California. That should almost immediately raise some red flags. So were the guns legal? Whose name were they in? And are we doing enough to monitor the internet for similar threats? It seems he got some of them "legally" himself, others his relatives bought for him. Straw perchases are illegal but it isn't enforced. Shouldn't his mental health problems have been in the data base? One of those changes I have long supported. And yes whoever made the strawpurchases should be investigated. Stiff penalties for them would make people think twice before supplying weapons to someone who can't get them themselves.

Kirata -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 7:57:39 PM)
Several news outlets are also reporting that the Army flunked him out of basic training after only a month. He was "discharged for failing to meet the minimum administrative standards." K.

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:00:24 PM)
FR Why is it that after Charleston it was of massive importance that he targeted blacks but now it is of no importance that he targeted Christians. Both times it is important to understand motivation.

kdsub -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:28:10 PM)
What do you think bama... should we lock them up and take away their toys? Before they end up in the hands of killers. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:30:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub What do you think bama... should we lock them up and take away their toys? Before they end up in the hands of killers. Butch Maybe we should work on the bigotry that was the cause of both incidents.

kdsub -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:32:48 PM)
Where does bigotry come into play? If someone is careless enough to leave a deadly weapon in an unlocked vehicle do they deserve in a responsible world to own those weapons?

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:41:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Where does bigotry come into play? If someone is careless enough to leave a deadly weapon in an unlocked vehicle do they deserve in a responsible world to own those weapons? You asked me a question refering back to my bigottry comment and expected me to know you were talking about something you said several posts ago. How do you determine who would do that. Lock them up? We don't lock up felons who try to make gun purchases, but you want to lock someone up because they forgot to lock their car? Personally the only time I leave a firearm in my car (and I lock it gun or no gun) is when going into a gun free zone. Lets see "if you buy this gun will you ever leave it in an unlocked car" then you can't have it. Can't take their toy away, it was already stolen. But yes let us use trickle down criminalogy. The man has been victimized once so let's see to it he doesn't report the crime by locking him up if he does great idea.

JVoV -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:44:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Bama, just out of curiosity, how would you 'increase the penalty' when the shooter is already dead? The same way keeping me from getting a gun would bring them back to life. The only people currently considered the cause of the problem are those who have them for hunting, target practice, and self defence. When need to penalize people who get them illegally and people who misuse them. Make the penalty for illegal possession stiff enough to discourage them. Enforce what we have. Neither the Aurora nor the Charlston shooter should have been able to get a firearm legally under current law. Same with Columbine. It happens time and time again. If current law were enforced it would make a big difference. If we did something about mental health issues it would make a big difference. Enforcement of the penalties for even attempting a purchase of a firearm by a felon would make a big difference, this is only prosecuted about 1% of the time. But none of these things are inforced, they only affect criminals. Most gunaphobes want to go after those of us who follow the law. This means one of two things. A they believe in the trickle down therory of crime fighting, hit the general population and eventially it will trickle down to the criminals or B they are more interested in controlling the general population than they are in fighting crime. Don't you think that it makes more sense to aim laws at the criminal element than at the general population. Making laws targeting the criminal element doesn't really dissuade them. Notice that murder is illegal pretty much everywhere. But legal gun owners need to be responsible with their firearms, keeping them secure, and out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have access. If your dog gets out and bites the postman, you are legally responsible. If someone is driving your car and wrecks it, you can be held financially responsible. Why should a gun be any different?

kdsub -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:46:11 PM)
No I posted a story and link in answering another posters question on did the shooter have legal gun ownership... so forgive me I thought you had read my post 165... please do i am still interested in your answer. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Bama, just out of curiosity, how would you 'increase the penalty' when the shooter is already dead? The same way keeping me from getting a gun would bring them back to life. The only people currently considered the cause of the problem are those who have them for hunting, target practice, and self defence. When need to penalize people who get them illegally and people who misuse them. Make the penalty for illegal possession stiff enough to discourage them. Enforce what we have. Neither the Aurora nor the Charlston shooter should have been able to get a firearm legally under current law. Same with Columbine. It happens time and time again. If current law were enforced it would make a big difference. If we did something about mental health issues it would make a big difference. Enforcement of the penalties for even attempting a purchase of a firearm by a felon would make a big difference, this is only prosecuted about 1% of the time. But none of these things are inforced, they only affect criminals. Most gunaphobes want to go after those of us who follow the law. This means one of two things. A they believe in the trickle down therory of crime fighting, hit the general population and eventially it will trickle down to the criminals or B they are more interested in controlling the general population than they are in fighting crime. Don't you think that it makes more sense to aim laws at the criminal element than at the general population. Making laws targeting the criminal element doesn't really dissuade them. Notice that murder is illegal pretty much everywhere. But legal gun owners need to be responsible with their firearms, keeping them secure, and out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have access. If your dog gets out and bites the postman, you are legally responsible. If someone is driving your car and wrecks it, you can be held financially responsible. Why should a gun be any different? In my state if someone steals your car and has an accident you aren't responsible, if someone steals your gun why should you be responsible for their actions. Another vote for penalizing the victim, not the criminal.

BamaD -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:53:01 PM)
Making laws targeting the criminal element doesn't really dissuade them. Notice that murder is illegal pretty much everywhere. So we should only have laws that penalize the non criminal? Come on, you are smarter than that.

JVoV -> RE: Umpqua mass shooting (10/2/2015 8:55:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD FR Why is it that after Charleston it was of massive importance that he targeted blacks but now it is of no importance that he targeted Christians. Both times it is important to understand motivation. I believe the actual quote was "Are you a Christian? Good, then you'll be meeting God in about 3 seconds." In Charleston, the victims were targeted because of their race. We know that beyond a doubt. UCC was chosen for a higher body count, and a grudge with at least one professor. It was also apparently convenient, especially knowing that no one on campus would be armed. Whatever the response time of the local police was, it wasn't fast enough. And the sad reality is that it's never fast enough. Our children are sitting ducks. How the fuck is that possible in this day and age?

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