Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms Page: <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/8/2015 11:31:11 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz
VP Biden has already stated that the government does not have the time to prosecute people found to be lying on the ATF 4473 form. For those that may not know, the 4473 form is required whenever one buys a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (FFL; think "gun shop").

Let me reiterate: the government does not, by and large, investigate people attempting to buy a firearm that are declined by NICS, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.


Which makes a joke out of the argument to increase the number of background checks.


It gets worse. As I mentioned, Congress routinely underfunds NICS. In 2009, for instance, $187M was authorized yet only $10M was actually appropriated. In 2012, $187M was again authorized yet only a paltry $5M was appropriated (PDF link). 2013 gets a little better with $187M authorized and $12M appropriated.

FixNICS has been launched by the National Shooting Sports Foundation in addition to other firearm related groups.

The federal government cannot mandate state participation due to the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Unfortunately, far too many states fall short on submitting prohibiting mental health and other records. Five states had made fewer than 10 records available and eight states had made fewer than 100 records available as of Nov. 30, 2014, according to FBI data. -- from FixNICS.org, emphasis added.

To summarize: states do not have enough money to put proper records into NICS, the government willfully ignores a majority of NICS declines, under 10% of the funding allocated to NICS is actually given, but more laws and more background checks will fix everything.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 301
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 6:49:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, if you give drugs to an addict, and they die, you are in for some problems, if you leave gasoline around for a baby to take a swim in, you are in for some problems, if you buy alcohol for minors you are in for some problems (and I could go on and on) and if you leave a gun for a child, or a mental defective..........you should be in some problems.

In the other cases, there is some agreement, but on this thing, one must perform due diligence, if that is done, fine, if not..........I am for clapping the darbys on ya.


Your first three comparisons show intent: one intends to give a drug addict drugs, a baby to swim in gasoline, or minors to acquire alcohol. I know of no person that intentionally leaves a weapon out to purposefully enable a child to obtain and use it. What you are referring to are accidents, either via negligence, stupidity, or both. Parents whose children obtain a weapon and accidentally kill themselves or others already have unimaginable consequences, why do you feel a need to add insult to injury?



If a baby intends to swim in gasoline? Uh, no.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to ifmaz)
Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 6:54:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Notice how all of the mass murders with guns are committed by gun nuts?


I know of two mass murders on US soil, one involved box cutters and the other involved fertilizer and a truck.




Sandy Hook, Aurora Theater, YWAM and New Life, Columbine, Chuck E Cheese, ad nauseam.

Just because you personally don't know of them does not pretend that they didnt happen.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to ifmaz)
Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 7:02:52 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

33,600 men women and children are killed by firearms at least in 2013... a majority of these were committed with unsecured or stolen weapons...

Almost two thirds of those deaths are self-inflicted, they killed themselves, and you have no idea how many were committed with "unsecured or stolen weapons." But I'll warrant the number is significant among the remaining homicides. So why don't you suggest stiffer penalties for illegal possession, and a greater effort to track those illegal guns back to their source and prosecute the traffickers? In the 0-20 age range that most concerns you, homicides outnumber accidental deaths by a factor of fourteen.

K.




VP Biden has already stated that the government does not have the time to prosecute people found to be lying on the ATF 4473 form. For those that may not know, the 4473 form is required whenever one buys a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (FFL; think "gun shop").

Let me reiterate: the government does not, by and large, investigate people attempting to buy a firearm that are declined by NICS, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.


Which makes a joke out of the argument to increase the number of background checks.



Hardly, those guys didn't get the guns, so as they say, plot foiled. You can better believe that when a transaction is delayed (and thru brady law a date not before to transfer is given) and that date passes and you transfer, and they are not cleared, you will see ATF and so will they.

The argument to increase the background checks is to keep guns out of certain shall we say, non constitutionally compliant peoples hands, and so I do not see a punchline here, because that is exactly what they did. So, the jokester that I am, I need that punchline explained to me. Looks like a simple patellar reflex.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 304
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 7:49:30 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Campus Shooting Came After Fight Between Two Groups of Students

A fight that broke out between two groups of students at Northern Arizona University’s Flagstaff campus left one person dead and three hospitalized after one of the students shot the others with a handgun.

The shooter has been identified as Steven Jones, an 18-year-old freshman at the school, who has been taken into custody by campus police, according to NAU police chief Greg Fowler.

The names and ages of the victims have not been publicly released, but Fowler said they were all male students at the school.

Fowler said that the altercation started at 1:20 a.m. when "several of our students, two separate student groups got into a confrontation."

Campus police arrived at the scene and apprehended Jones "without further trouble," Fowler said.

It is unclear what sparked the shooting, which took place near Mountain View Hall, a dormitory that houses most of the campus' students involved in Greek organizations.

Fowler said that none of the violence happened inside any residence halls.

Fowler said that the school's alert messaging was sent out "rather quickly," but a student who was in the audience at the new conference this morning told Fowler that he received the text alert at 2:52 a.m., more than an hour and a half after the shooting. Fowler said that "sometimes it takes us a little bit of time to stabilize the information" but added that the text was "a precautionary measure" as opposed to one telling students to actively take cover.

Fowler noted that the Arizona Board of Regents prohibits students form carrying guns around campus but students are allowed to store them in their car.

The state school's Flagstaff campus has more than 20,000 students enrolled.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., released the following statement this morning:

"My thoughts and prayers are with families of the person who was killed and the three others who were wounded in the horrific shooting on the campus of Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff early this morning. I appreciate the efforts of all state and local law enforcement officials, first-responders and school administrators, and continue to pray for the recovery of the injured, as well as all those in the NAU community who have been impacted by this terrible tragedy."



http://abcnews.go.com/US/deadly-shooting-reported-northern-arizona-universitys-flagstaff-campus/story?id=34363113

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 9:24:49 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Kirata... Don't you think those that commit suicide are insane? I don't know and you don't either how many of those suicides were committed by stolen or unsecured weapons... BUT we do know that those people committing suicide should not have had access to killing weapons... Requiring a periodic mental certification for gun ownership would reduce those deaths don't you think... at least by guns. In most all my posts I have included accidental deaths... crime deaths AND the insane. Remember statistics may also include mass murderers that commit suicide.

Now they may or they may not have used other methods to kill themselves...we will not know... but we do know GUNS were used to kill those insane people and they should not have had access to them.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/9/2015 10:03:35 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 9:40:44 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

33,600 men women and children are killed by firearms at least in 2013... a majority of these were committed with unsecured or stolen weapons...

Almost two thirds of those deaths are self-inflicted, they killed themselves, and you have no idea how many were committed with "unsecured or stolen weapons." But I'll warrant the number is significant among the remaining homicides. So why don't you suggest stiffer penalties for illegal possession, and a greater effort to track those illegal guns back to their source and prosecute the traffickers? In the 0-20 age range that most concerns you, homicides outnumber accidental deaths by a factor of fourteen.

K.




VP Biden has already stated that the government does not have the time to prosecute people found to be lying on the ATF 4473 form. For those that may not know, the 4473 form is required whenever one buys a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (FFL; think "gun shop").

Let me reiterate: the government does not, by and large, investigate people attempting to buy a firearm that are declined by NICS, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.


Which makes a joke out of the argument to increase the number of background checks.



Hardly, those guys didn't get the guns, so as they say, plot foiled. You can better believe that when a transaction is delayed (and thru brady law a date not before to transfer is given) and that date passes and you transfer, and they are not cleared, you will see ATF and so will they.

The argument to increase the background checks is to keep guns out of certain shall we say, non constitutionally compliant peoples hands, and so I do not see a punchline here, because that is exactly what they did. So, the jokester that I am, I need that punchline explained to me. Looks like a simple patellar reflex.

Less than 1% of these are followed up on, unless, as in a couple of local cases, the dealer stalls them till the cops get there.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 9:44:23 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The shooter has been identified as Steven Jones, an 18-year-old freshman at the school, who has been taken into custody by campus police, according to NAU police chief Greg Fowler.


He violated Federal law just by having a handgun.
He violated state law by having it on school grounds.
Whoever got him the gun violated Federal, and most likely state law by getting him the gun.
And the list of current laws violated goes on.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 308
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:04:11 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Here we are arguing over statistics and comparing gun deaths to swimming pool fencing. We have laws up the ass to reduce driving deaths…as well as laws to govern safety of swimming pools… People are sued over spilt coffee receiving thousands of dollars… Yet… a quarter of a million Americans and untold thousands more injured and disabled by guns for what ever reason over the last 10 years. We have few laws specifically holding irresponsible gun owners liable or comprehensive workable laws to limit gun ownership by the insane and measures to enforce what laws we have.

It is unconscionable that there is resistance in the form of give and inch take a mile resistance to reasonable firearm safety laws while thousands die needlessly. I can’t understand why and I believe my views will soon become the majority view and changes will be made.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:13:45 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Here we are arguing over statistics and comparing gun deaths to swimming pool fencing. We have laws up the ass to reduce driving deaths…as well as laws to govern safety of swimming pools… People are sued over spilt coffee receiving thousands of dollars… Yet… a quarter of a million Americans and untold thousands more injured and disabled by guns for what ever reason over the last 10 years. We have few laws specifically holding irresponsible gun owners liable or comprehensive workable laws to limit gun ownership by the insane and measures to enforce what laws we have.

It is unconscionable that there is resistance in the form of give and inch take a mile resistance to reasonable firearm safety laws while thousands die needlessly. I can’t understand why and I believe my views will soon become the majority view and changes will be made.

Butch

But you are not talking reasonable you are talking intrusive micromanagement by the government with a one size fits all solution which doesn't fit any situation properly. It also opens the door for the domed pool fences and the booted cars, because once you say that the government has control over the way you set up security in your home then it has control over anything in the home they can call a safety issue.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:22:43 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL. There are federal building standards that must be met, federal materials building standards, electrical standards, heating ventilation and air conditioning standards. . . food, appliance, paint, and so on... and so on, they are in your home already, and you really don't see them there. That bit of paranoic slippery slope won't wash.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 311
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:35:36 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL. There are federal building standards that must be met, federal materials building standards, electrical standards, heating ventilation and air conditioning standards. . . food, appliance, paint, and so on... and so on, they are in your home already, and you really don't see them there. That bit of paranoic slippery slope won't wash.

No it isn't.
Don't you agree that current criminal negligence laws already cover his concerns and that all his laws would do is stick it to gun owners?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 312
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:35:47 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		If you add up the killed and injured over the last ten years about 1 in every 550 Americans was killed or injured with a gun!!!! Yet little has been done to curb this number... WHY!

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:37:06 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you add up the killed and injured over the last ten years about 1 in every 550 Americans was killed or injured with a gun!!!! Yet little has been done to curb this number... WHY!

Butch

Because people want to blame the gun and not the killer.
And even more have been killed or injured with cars. Yet little has been done to curb this number WHY.
Both numbers are dropping but the numbers for guns is dropping faster than the numbers for cars.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/9/2015 10:38:00 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:37:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		no biggie then, we dont need to concern ourselves with the dead police for that reason, they signed on for it and carry guns as well.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:41:14 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no biggie then, we dont need to concern ourselves with the dead police for that reason, they signed on for it and carry guns as well.

Go after the criminals, not the legitimate gun owners.
If they can't enforce current laws how are they going to enforce more?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:43:32 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Because people want to blame the gun and not the killer.


I wonder how many people would be killed by these same people with swimming pool fencing? Bama we can blame both because guns enable these murderers to kill more efficiently. Yes they could easily use knives... less would die... yes they could easily use bats...less would die... no they cannot easily use bombs...why because we have laws!

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:44:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		same way that more laws are being made and those arent being enforced in other areas now.

voter id, go after the criminals. cop shooters go after the criminals, people who sell guns to certain others are criminals. get rid of drivers licenses, most are not criminals, green cards, most are not criminals.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:45:25 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		FR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land

Worst, not terrorist mass killing in US history.
Lets ban guns and make this the standard.
Easy to do, cheaper than guns, much easier to get than guns, no tracking.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/9/2015 10:47:10 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Kirata... Don't you think those that commit suicide are insane? I don't know and you don't either how many of those suicides were committed by stolen or unsecured weapons... BUT we do know that those people committing suicide should not have had access to killing weapons... Requiring a periodic mental certification for gun ownership would reduce those deaths don't you think... at least by guns. In most all my posts I have included accidental deaths... crime deaths AND the insane. Remember statistics may also include mass murderers that commit suicide.

Now they may or they may not have used other methods to kill themselves...we will not know... but we do know GUNS were used to kill those insane people and they should not have had access to them.

Butch


Why shouldn't people be able to kill themselves?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 320
Page:   <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms Page: <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094