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Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 3:42:50 PM   
MercTech


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Acquitted as sending a drone at low altitude over private property is an invasion of privacy.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/30354128/judge-dismisses-charges-for-man-who-shot-down-drone
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 4:45:09 PM   
kdsub


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If the source I use...DJI... is correct in the recorded and recovered data from the Phantom 3 quad copter shot down... the altitude was 193 feet. The Phantom three has a 94 mm landscape F2 lens that at that altitude will not capture enough detail to easily even see a person let alone tell what they are wearing.

Below is an image I captured at that approximate height with an identical aircraft ... do you really think this device can be used for spying on a sunbathing little girl?

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/28/2015 4:58:12 PM >


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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 5:29:15 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If the source I use...DJI... is correct in the recorded and recovered data from the Phantom 3 quad copter shot down... the altitude was 193 feet. The Phantom three has a 94 mm landscape F2 lens that at that altitude will not capture enough detail to easily even see a person let alone tell what they are wearing.

Below is an image I captured at that approximate height with an identical aircraft ... do you really think this device can be used for spying on a sunbathing little girl?


You want a rational, intelligent, an educated answer? Or the conservative/paranoid answer?

Some dude flying his amateur drone wildly has enough problems controlling the craft to take anything resembling an accurate picture. Even the $1,500 units do take some practice even with the on board systems that handle much of the work.

I'm surprised the judge made this ruling. Since isn't it up to the guy whom shot down the drone to prove the pilot of the drone was taking pictures (thereby creating justification to use a firearm)? Or is Kentucky not part of the United States of America anymore? Frankly if the guy firing the gun is afraid of a tiny drone, that dude has some SERIOUS mental and emotional problems. Sooner or later, he and his gun be in trouble with the law. The prosecution will be more than happy to bring this case up!

So it begs the question: Should drone operators arm their drones? That way if someone attacks, the drone can....STAND ITS GROUND....and fire back? Particularly if its operating on its own and no human supervision (i.e. following a pre-set pattern unless obstacles decide otherwise). All this judge did was create problems for the future rather than solving them.





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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 5:44:02 PM   
MrRodgers


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Well the terminology is not acquitted because there was no trial. But drone flyers should take note...keep it close or the pendulum could swing against them. If it had gone to trial and the homeowner counter-sued...he may have won.

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 5:46:59 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If the source I use...DJI... is correct in the recorded and recovered data from the Phantom 3 quad copter shot down... the altitude was 193 feet. The Phantom three has a 94 mm landscape F2 lens that at that altitude will not capture enough detail to easily even see a person let alone tell what they are wearing.

Below is an image I captured at that approximate height with an identical aircraft ... do you really think this device can be used for spying on a sunbathing little girl?


You want a rational, intelligent, an educated answer? Or the conservative/paranoid answer?

Some dude flying his amateur drone wildly has enough problems controlling the craft to take anything resembling an accurate picture. Even the $1,500 units do take some practice even with the on board systems that handle much of the work.

I'm surprised the judge made this ruling. Since isn't it up to the guy whom shot down the drone to prove the pilot of the drone was taking pictures (thereby creating justification to use a firearm)? Or is Kentucky not part of the United States of America anymore? Frankly if the guy firing the gun is afraid of a tiny drone, that dude has some SERIOUS mental and emotional problems. Sooner or later, he and his gun be in trouble with the law. The prosecution will be more than happy to bring this case up!

So it begs the question: Should drone operators arm their drones? That way if someone attacks, the drone can....STAND ITS GROUND....and fire back? Particularly if its operating on its own and no human supervision (i.e. following a pre-set pattern unless obstacles decide otherwise). All this judge did was create problems for the future rather than solving them.






A drone 'stand its ground ?' Surely you jest. How could that concept possibly apply when in law, the homeowner 'owns' the airspace above his home.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 6:37:32 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
You want a rational, intelligent, an educated answer? Or the conservative/paranoid answer?


youre a loathsome embarrassing partisan hack and what I would want, for once, on anything, is a straight up answer without some lame attempt to besmirch "rational, intelligent, an educated" people just because they are conservative and happen to disagree with you.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 10/28/2015 6:42:53 PM >

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 6:45:49 PM   
kdsub


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The home owner does not own the space above his property...all he has is the right to develop it.... but he has to be using it... Not the case here... he has had no claim to space above his home.

Now if he could prove that the intent of the drone operator was to spy on his daughter then he could have reason to call the police...not shoot it down.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 6:48:10 PM   
kdsub


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Believe me my friend many conservatives own and operate quad-copters... this is not a liberal conservative thing... unless some politician tries to turn it into one.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to bounty44)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 6:52:23 PM   
kdsub


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Here is a video to give you an idea how these devices are not capable of what it was accused of.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 6:53:47 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Am I the only one who's not wild about either drones' potentially spying on ordinary people or folks' shooting stuff out of the sky?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:07:07 PM   
kdsub


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dc if people were spying I could see where they would need to be regulated more closely... My drone will soon be registered by law and I hope we end up with people needing to be tested and licensed in order to fly them.

They are not toys... they can be dangerous... but not in eavesdropping on teen girls. The drone I have can reach an altitude of over 20,000 feet... It can be controlled through FPV from over a mile and a half away... and even further with cheap added equipment. It only weighs 3 pounds but capable of speeds up to 35 mph with props that will cut deep... It could easily take down a plane or kill in a crash...but it can't spy on teen girls.

It's 20 mm 94 degree of view camera would have to be less than 25 feet for detail...and at that altitude the noise would warn anyone of its approach.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/28/2015 7:10:23 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:09:23 PM   
MercTech


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The home owner does not own the space above his property...all he has is the right to develop it.... but he has to be using it... Not the case here... he has had no claim to space above his home.

Now if he could prove that the intent of the drone operator was to spy on his daughter then he could have reason to call the police...not shoot it down.

Butch


How much space above the property is the property owner able to claim?
From: https://www.faa.gov/uas/model_aircraft/
"Don't fly near people or stadiums"

The rules on drones are in a state of flux. Until laws in the U.S. are finalized concerning drones; the current laws on "hobby aircraft" apply. Not, the crux of the matter is what constitutes "near people". The Judge in Kentucky took that stance that overflight of residential property at low altitude was "near people".

Personally, I'd say both parties were at fault. The drone owner for flying a model aircraft in a residential area and the shotgun totin' homeowner for discharging a firearm in a residential area. I can empathize though. If some yahoo flew a drone where they could perv my girl enjoying the hot tub I'd be tempted to use anti-aircraft fire myself.



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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:13:18 PM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If the source I use...DJI... is correct in the recorded and recovered data from the Phantom 3 quad copter shot down... the altitude was 193 feet. The Phantom three has a 94 mm landscape F2 lens that at that altitude will not capture enough detail to easily even see a person let alone tell what they are wearing.

Below is an image I captured at that approximate height with an identical aircraft ... do you really think this device can be used for spying on a sunbathing little girl?

You want a rational, intelligent, an educated answer? Or the conservative/paranoid answer?

Some dude flying his amateur drone wildly has enough problems controlling the craft to take anything resembling an accurate picture. Even the $1,500 units do take some practice even with the on board systems that handle much of the work.

I'm surprised the judge made this ruling. Since isn't it up to the guy whom shot down the drone to prove the pilot of the drone was taking pictures (thereby creating justification to use a firearm)? Or is Kentucky not part of the United States of America anymore? Frankly if the guy firing the gun is afraid of a tiny drone, that dude has some SERIOUS mental and emotional problems. Sooner or later, he and his gun be in trouble with the law. The prosecution will be more than happy to bring this case up!

So it begs the question: Should drone operators arm their drones? That way if someone attacks, the drone can....STAND ITS GROUND....and fire back? Particularly if its operating on its own and no human supervision (i.e. following a pre-set pattern unless obstacles decide otherwise). All this judge did was create problems for the future rather than solving them.


A drone 'stand its ground ?' Surely you jest. How could that concept possibly apply when in law, the homeowner 'owns' the airspace above his home.


Think about it....

What can computers accomplish in 2015 that they could never do just ten years ago? That's a huge list. How many more tasks will they be able to accomplish in another 10 years? Could a drone in ten years identify not only that its being attacked, but engaged the hostile target? Even use a weapon to defend itself from said hostile target?

What happens when that drone, armed, with better programming to operate on its own (more or less) for hours at a time gets attacked? Does it have a right, as an extension of its owner, to 'stand its ground'? Since swords and clubs are merely an extension of one's arm, and are considered an weapon like a firearm under the 2nd; therefore the drone's receiver is the 'extension' between the drone itself and the system controlling it (much like a wrist would hold a club).

The easiest way to solve that is to outlaw drones with firearms or weapon systems except by special permit.

The problem that exists is the FAA has not made any real rules on the distance from the ground and up, to were drones can and can not fly. That information is coming out next month (in theory). Therefore, this guy with his gun had no authority to challenge the drone with hostile force. An intelligent, sane, and responsible gun owner would have gone over to the neighbor an kindly asked not to have the drone fly over the house. I think we can deduce the firearm owner is not intelligent, sane, or responsible with a firearm. He would lose in civil court for damages to the drone craft.






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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:19:37 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
You want a rational, intelligent, an educated answer? Or the conservative/paranoid answer?


youre a loathsome embarrassing partisan hack and what I would want, for once, on anything, is a straight up answer without some lame attempt to besmirch "rational, intelligent, an educated" people just because they are conservative and happen to disagree with you.



blah blah blah blah....

Do you ever have anything useful to contribute to a discussion?

Or is it just insults and attacks because you lack a half decent argument?

A rational, intelligent, and RESPONSIBLE gun owner would have gone over to his neighbor and chatted with him. Not in an angry or threaten manner either! Nope. In a nice, calm, rational manner and politely requested the drone not fly over his house or take pictures/video of it. If the drone operator had half a brain, they would agree. Its a reasonable request, and its better to be on the good side of one's fellow neighbors than against. Whole problem adverted.

But conservative ego, being what it is these days; needs to display a child-like temper tantrum when they don't get what they want. Kind of like what you just did bounty....


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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:22:33 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Believe me my friend many conservatives own and operate quad-copters... this is not a liberal conservative thing... unless some politician tries to turn it into one.

Butch


Yes, liberals and conservatives have drones. They are fun toys. Whether its just flying to relieve other stressing shit in life; or doing as part of a hobby/job. How many liberals do you know that are trigger happy and believe the drone is there to take pictures of their property for some evil and sinister purpose? Conservatives are MUCH MORE known for this sort of outlook on reality.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:22:58 PM   
kdsub


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193 feet is not low... right now I have legal permission to fly my aircraft in and over my city... in and over state parks...all it takes is a phone call. Flying over residential areas is not against the law unless there is a group of people.

In fact i was asked to take the picture below of our City Hall... there were people inside. Don't get me wrong i want more regulation... unlike the gun nuts I realize there is abuse of these devices... but this incident is wrong.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:26:57 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

it can't spy on teen girls

Perhaps not today (hence my "potentially"), but I think it's wise to consider the possibility of that happening as technology--both drones and lenses--evolves. Forewarned and all that.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:30:20 PM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

193 feet is not low... right now I have legal permission to fly my aircraft in and over my city... in and over state parks...all it takes is a phone call. Flying over residential areas is not against the law unless there is a group of people.

In fact i was asked to take the picture below of our City Hall... there were people inside. Don't get me wrong i want more regulation... unlike the gun nuts I realize there is abuse of these devices... but this incident is wrong.

Butch




That's a nice shot!

There should be more regulation on drones. Without it, things will get out of hand and cause more problems.

It even can be a $1,200 leaf blower...

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:32:17 PM   
kdsub


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I agree with you DC... I want regulation... otherwise I will end up with $2,000 worth of a toy I will not be able to use. I have insurance on the aircraft and for liability... I think this should be required... I think a licence to fly should be required... I believe there should be federal laws to regulate who and where they can be flown... But this particular incident was wrong and irresponsible.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 7:33:37 PM   
kdsub


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Thanks Joe..my hobby


lol... it makes a good blower... loud though... hard to sneak up on sunbathing girls i would think.


Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/28/2015 7:37:49 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 20
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