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Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 1:34:13 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't actually looked through the boards to see if this is covered elsewhere so if it is, excuse me.

Safe, Sane and Consensual.

I understand the "Safe", nobody should be taking part in anything that is otherwise, however it's played out.  And the "Consensual" is absolute and beyond question.

But why "Sane" ?  I don't get this part at all.  I was trying to think what part of "Sane" isn't already covered by "Safe" or "Consensual".  Surely it can be as insane as you like.

Englighten me someone.

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 1:46:47 AM   
MadamShy


Posts: 173
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		well actually I don't use the ssc [safe sane consensual

I follow more the
RACK
risk aware consensual kink

why? because MY idea of sane may Not be someone elses idea of Sane

_____________________________

Madam Shy
Head Domina
Bitch of Club Hell
Providence RI

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 3:19:06 AM   
ArdRiNahEireann


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		I'm  involved in D/s in its wider sense and BDSM as subset of activities within that. My remarks below refer to both acronyms as definitions for D/s. 

Both are guidelines or definitions of scope, and outline the broad principles underlying  D/s and  BDSM activities within that.  Neither definition is perfect but  Safe Sane and Consensual has stood the test of time and is a more explicit  statement of whats involved. It is  a reminder or guiding principle to  both Dominants and submissives of the dynamics involved,  particularly the need for  (physical and emotional)  Safety in activities that can be not only risqué but risky. I agree that the Sane clause is a little redundant but it too serves as a reminder that one should never consider engaging in D/s with another who doesn't seem sane.


Risk Aware Consentual Kink  doesn't explicitly cover any Safety  and implies  that D/s must involve kink. (whatever that is - One persons kink is another persons vanilla or disgusting perversion)

RACK is a nice clever acronym and has more of a BDSM flavour to it and has become quite popular.

If you still can't decide perhaps answering the following

Would you prefer to be seen as or involved with someone who is :

1. Aware of the risks and the need for consent and always bears these in mind
or
2 . is conscious of the need for Safety, of the need for Consent, Sane (or reasonable) about how these principles are implemented and always bears these in mind.

Either way they are only definitions what's really important is how one conducts oneself.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 3:23:39 AM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		To me sane would be better than insane...LOL....who knows..

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 3:29:37 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Sane is almost impossible to define.  Well, at least a definition that everyone will agree upon.

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 5:00:47 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't mean nto put any one person on the spot (they may not even want to discuss this) but - I think amayos has a really good, well-developed opinion on this. I think he even wrote an article about it once (maybe he'll show up and will discuss it sometime today). It basically is about how it's all pretty relative what SSC actually means to anyone in practice, and therefore the phrase, while it might sound comforting, since it's meaning is so relative, it is not necessarily a guarantee of that acc. to anyone's particluar expectations. I think that's what it means - anyway, it was a good read.  I am sure many have better developed opinions on this than I do, my experience is quite limited.

My personal view is that people really need to get what they both consider "Safe"  on the table, and if one of them is inexperienced, make sure they really trust the other person before letting them engage one in activity (and check whether they have enough experience to be doing what they are doing). Or maybe you just need to trust them a whole lot (preferably with reasons for doing that).

"Sane" - well, I just don't know what that means, really, so scratch me off discussing sane.

"Consensual" - means (to me) both people want (even if one is protesting) it (whatever they are doing, or are going to do)________ but, I think that term can be a slippery slope with all the talk I hear of people "pushing other's limits", etc. - and that can be viewed as fine, (or not), I guess, depending on the two people and their "understanding" with eachother. However, If a Master or Mistress, Domme or Dominant is completely in charge, then what happens is up to him/her, primarily (unless this convo gets all semantical) - so I guess whatever happens is consensual ultimately, in terms of: The submissive or slave person having placed implicit and complete trust in them, but that's it, really. Plus, they may or may not have a "safeword" they can use if they want the other person to stop.

Just my two cents. Good topic and question, I think.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/18/2006 5:24:03 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 5:13:52 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		I recall a tale of a male sub who literally wanted a Domme to castrate him - sane?  Maybe to that sub but fortunately NOT to the Domme!  So it also wasn't consensual, either....
 
As Master to my slave, she's obligated to obey ALL my commands.  So if I'm in the mood drive my car over her foot; to sever one of her nipples; to extract several of her teeth with or without anaesthetic etc - that's ok because I'm boss?  It's sane?
 
S,S & C is an excellent guideline for those new to each other.  But it tends to become redundant in established relationships where it's overridden by mutual trust and respect.
 
Focus.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 5:17:21 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, thanks for clarifying Sane for me, Focus. Yes, those things are definitely what I'd consider too "out there" (insane).  

Maybe Sane could be partially defined as what someone considers their Hard Limits? (to them anyway). If mine don't include things like "I won't jump off a 15-story building if you tell me to do that, and the person considers the fact I didn't specifically mention that as a "limit" and that is therefore an "out" for them, and they therefore have a right to make me do that, I think we may need to have a talk....  

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/18/2006 5:20:14 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 5:25:19 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		It's a SLOGAN, not a  blueprint.  It gives a general idea of what is going on but can hardly expected to survive linguistic dissection.

Really, this sort of thing reminds me of the debates Xians get into over the word "saved."

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www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 5:41:09 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I agree, thanks to the Warrens!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 5:43:56 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I used to use "UIN" as my little slogan--unsafe, insane, non-consensual.  Just to piss people off.

And guess what, it really did piss some people off.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 7:57:26 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

It's a SLOGAN, not a  blueprint.  It gives a general idea of what is going on but can hardly expected to survive linguistic dissection.

Really, this sort of thing reminds me of the debates Xians get into over the word "saved."


Then why waste everyone's time including your own by posting a valueless comment on it? Sheesh, go read another topic instead.

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 7/18/2006 8:10:14 AM >

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:01:54 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

I haven't actually looked through the boards to see if this is covered elsewhere so if it is, excuse me.

Safe, Sane and Consensual.

I understand the "Safe", nobody should be taking part in anything that is otherwise, however it's played out. And the "Consensual" is absolute and beyond question.

But why "Sane" ? I don't get this part at all. I was trying to think what part of "Sane" isn't already covered by "Safe" or "Consensual". Surely it can be as insane as you like.

Englighten me someone.


I think the "Sane" part was to counter charges that people who do SM consensually are mentally ill -- like homosexuality was once considered. There are indeed mental illnesses (and crimes) which can resemble what we do and there are people out there who use our terms to help them gather victims and targets.

The problem is that the ideas are rather vague so folks argue about them. I don't think the idea of SSC though was created for those doing BDSM as it was for those looking at us who do it.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:03:30 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		ok thanks for your answers, gang, I was just curious as to what it meant

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:11:33 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

It's a SLOGAN, not a  blueprint.  It gives a general idea of what is going on but can hardly expected to survive linguistic dissection.

Really, this sort of thing reminds me of the debates Xians get into over the word "saved."



Then why waste everyone's time including your own by posting a valueless comment on it? Sheesh.

Mr Warren wasn't wasting his time - he was giving people information (which you asked for)
SSC is a slogan.  Not a mantra, not a blueprint, not rules but a slogan. Well, at least as the history dictates...
 
 
 
 
You asked for enlightenment - that is what you were given from personal point of views.
There are alot of threads on this - search function is your friend.
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:12:36 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I don't mean nto put any one person on the spot (they may not even want to discuss this) but - I think amayos has a really good, well-developed opinion on this. I think he even wrote an article about it once (maybe he'll show up and will discuss it sometime today).


Hi Susan,

An excellent idea. The article was in fact written by one of my slaves.

Link: http://humbledfemales.com/ssc.html

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:20:40 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		Anyway, thanks to those that took the time to answer with any kind of decency about what they thought it meant, rather than pedantic and needless descriptions of what it doesn't mean. 

Have a great day, darkinshadows.  

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:26:37 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Your rudeness is astounding - but it is ok... your forgiven.
What exactly was it that you were after?  The ideas on what safe, sane and consensual are.  I gave to you thoughts, and I also gave you a little bit more on some history.  If you are not gracious enough to accept that, not my problem.  But why come to a forum and ask, if you are not going to like the answers, just because you do not happen to agree?
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:32:46 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I read it. That's a very nice website I think, amayos - and a very thought-provoking article, I think.

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:32:47 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		Please have a good day.  Mine is fantastic so far and I have ice cream. I really don't have time for people over complicating this thread as if some intellectual degree depended on it.  My ice cream tastes sexy.  Goodbye.

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 20
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