RE: Paris under attack

RE: Paris under attack (Full Version)

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zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 5:19:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 That was a putsch led by those officers. It was not a plot to murder De Gaulle as you stated. There is quite a difference. They saw De Gaulle as a traitor and if they had succeeded, they may have put him on trial as such; or they might have shot him out of hand. Who knows ? Once the putsch had been put down and the plotters dispersed and in hiding, THEN began the multiple plots to murder Big Charlie. By then though, they had neither the backing, organisation or resources of the Legion as a whole. Have it your way though, as I am sure you will. you have never been wrong yet and I would guess you never will be, omniscient that you are. After all, you COULD be right smile and if you aren't you can always hide behind name-calling and verbal bullying. I am in awe of this....thank you

zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 5:23:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie I call on the United Nations We need to "understand them". Yes YES from Starship Troopers...... ...we can not afford another clandafuu...

zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 5:32:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyranwrap quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: yes because the atheists of the world past and present are such a peace loving lot... one other point, this muslim rage ???? wow to much hyperbole,,,, Christian do better fixing a christian issue and it would be the same for Muslims.... As to the atheist... Hitler and Stalin were atheists and wrecked more than they built...

adrift -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 5:56:17 AM)
Put another way: This sort of thing will continue to happen until the consequences are unacceptable. As things stand now, the only consequence they face is a free trip to paradise via martyrdom. This is where studying and understanding culture comes into play. Those who resort to this sort of thing need to understand that it can only result in a free trip to their version of hell for them.

Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:06:59 AM)
and what would make the consequences unacceptable. What is your pov on how to get to that point? without harming innocents?

jlf1961 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 7:01:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adrift Put another way: This sort of thing will continue to happen until the consequences are unacceptable. As things stand now, the only consequence they face is a free trip to paradise via martyrdom. This is where studying and understanding culture comes into play. Those who resort to this sort of thing need to understand that it can only result in a free trip to their version of hell for them. You dont seem to grasp the facts, to a terrorist, no consequence is unacceptable. Bomb their camps, villages, cities to rubble, you just breed more terrorists from the survivors. They know this. The twisted part of this is that the survivors are not going to look at the terrorists and scream "You caused this!" They are going to look up and say the western countries are trying to destroy us. The sick fact is that by taking out Saddam, the US and its coalition forces did more to destabilize the region than we did to help it. For all his atrocities, Saddam kept groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda from gaining strength in the region. Every group that could have threatened him and eventually the west was taken out by his secret police.

PeonForHer -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 7:02:54 AM)
quote: Gee, and I thought this sort of thing could not happen in Europe because they have such great gun control laws! Then that could only be because you're a cretin, JLF! [:)]

PeonForHer -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 7:04:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adrift Put another way: This sort of thing will continue to happen until the consequences are unacceptable. As things stand now, the only consequence they face is a free trip to paradise via martyrdom. This is where studying and understanding culture comes into play. Those who resort to this sort of thing need to understand that it can only result in a free trip to their version of hell for them. Difficult to see how that could be 'taught' to them, since they're already convinced that atrocity leads to heaven for them. I don't think it' possible to 'out-demon demons'.

zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 7:20:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: adrift Put another way: This sort of thing will continue to happen until the consequences are unacceptable. As things stand now, the only consequence they face is a free trip to paradise via martyrdom. This is where studying and understanding culture comes into play. Those who resort to this sort of thing need to understand that it can only result in a free trip to their version of hell for them. You dont seem to grasp the facts, to a terrorist, no consequence is unacceptable. Bomb their camps, villages, cities to rubble, you just breed more terrorists from the survivors. They know this. The twisted part of this is that the survivors are not going to look at the terrorists and scream "You caused this!" They are going to look up and say the western countries are trying to destroy us. The sick fact is that by taking out Saddam, the US and its coalition forces did more to destabilize the region than we did to help it. For all his atrocities, Saddam kept groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda from gaining strength in the region. Every group that could have threatened him and eventually the west was taken out by his secret police. There is some opinion that Saddam's politics are alive and well, the bathe political machine of Saddam had the visible operatives, but it had an extensive but silent part underground, that is what ISIS is a part of Saddam's defunct government...

Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 7:34:34 AM)
Some more info coming out??? A U.S. intelligence official told CBS News that a name and picture were recovered from the Syrian passport and the individual was not known to intelligence officials. However, a U.S. intelligence official told CBS News the Syrian passport might be fake. The official said the passport did not contain the correct numbers for a legitimate Syrian passport and the picture did not match the name. A U.S. law enforcement source told CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton French law enforcement officials were taking DNA and fingerprints from the dead terrorists. The test results were being run through databases as part of effort to identify the terrorists and their networks. A U.S. Intelligence source told Milton investigators have so far seen no insider knowledge in the chatter or communications that is being intercepted to verify who was involved. While there have been people saying glowing things about the Paris attack, no one has revealed information about the attack that only the attackers would have knowledge of, the source said. The FBI is sending a four or five additional FBI agents to Paris to bolster its small office there, an official confirms to CBS News. They have expertise in computer and evidence forensics. However, the FBI is not joining the investigation. The French have not asked for their assistance. The FBI has taken similar steps in the past following major overseas events. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-attacks-teams-extremists-france-prosecutor/

jlf1961 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:29:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos There is some opinion that Saddam's politics are alive and well, the bathe political machine of Saddam had the visible operatives, but it had an extensive but silent part underground, that is what ISIS is a part of Saddam's defunct government... That might have some merit if ISIS or ISIL had started in Iraq, but it didnt. Nor is the political philosophy remotely similar to anything put forth by Saddam. There is not an intel service on the planet that has even ventured the opinion. What you are looking at is a movement more closely resembling the Taliban than anything else. A very extremist movement based on the literal interpretation of the Quran, and only selected parts at that.

ifmaz -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:48:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: As much as I'd like to believe this, I think humans have a deep seated need to differentiate oneself from another. Humans will always find a reason to declare one group as superior and certain fringe elements will always advocate for the elimination of the "inferior" group. Then why not eliminate one of those reasons? The stupidest reason of all . . . the belief that an invisible man living in the sky who spends all his time obsessing over what we do with our genitalia and issuing commands over what to do about it. "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." -- (allegedly) Carl Sagan Eliminating religion would mean one has to take personal accountability and responsibility for their actions. It's far easier to attribute life events to some unseen deity. I'm not sure humankind will ever do away with religion, unfortunately. I'd hope finding life on another planet would be the final nail in religion's coffin, proving once and for all Earth is nothing overly special, but I'm sure the religious would declare Earth superior and thus in their deity's better graces.

ifmaz -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:51:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Some more info coming out??? A U.S. intelligence official told CBS News that a name and picture were recovered from the Syrian passport and the individual was not known to intelligence officials. ... Prepare for more 4th Amendment erosion.

zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 9:01:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adrift Put another way: This sort of thing will continue to happen until the consequences are unacceptable. As things stand now, the only consequence they face is a free trip to paradise via martyrdom. This is where studying and understanding culture comes into play. Those who resort to this sort of thing need to understand that it can only result in a free trip to their version of hell for them. Adrift, their lives seem to be of no value to them... so just what consequences can be applied that really mean anything.

zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 9:08:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos There is some opinion that Saddam's politics are alive and well, the bathe political machine of Saddam had the visible operatives, but it had an extensive but silent part underground, that is what ISIS is a part of Saddam's defunct government... That might have some merit if ISIS or ISIL had started in Iraq, but it didnt. Nor is the political philosophy remotely similar to anything put forth by Saddam. There is not an intel service on the planet that has even ventured the opinion. What you are looking at is a movement more closely resembling the Taliban than anything else. A very extremist movement based on the literal interpretation of the Quran, and only selected parts at that. Well to avoid a rush to judgement, who says ISIS of Iraqi origin can be defined by geographic location. If your saying the first ISIS attack was not in Iraq, well neither was the first nazi aggression in ww-II poland, it was spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_involvement_in_the_Spanish_Civil_War so that would easily explain that. Oh well perhaps the Israli, Italian and other nations with an intell department might a disagree with US Intell info....

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 9:43:01 AM)
quote: ikewise, when you start turning in Catholic priests that are molesting children Like this is not being done? Do you live in a vacuum as well?

adrift -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:16:15 AM)
and what would make the consequences unacceptable. What is your pov on how to get to that point? without harming innocents? Who is innocent? The terrorists claim that everyone who dies by their acts are complicit in their complaints, and their grievances. Would not the same be true of everyone on the terrorists side of the equation?

Musicmystery -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:19:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Muse this is just lip service... no substance.. these radicals do not live in a vacuum.. when their neighbors start pointing them out to authorities and Muslim states root them out then I will agree with you. Butch You could say the same for Christians, people who live near drug dealers, etc. I spoke deliberately generally, but if you want to be called out or call people out--you're just telling yourself what you need to tell yourself to feel good. I get you don't believe it.

dcnovice -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:42:11 AM)
quote: No, because you are assuming that notions like law and rights cannot exist independent of religion. This is false. Given that religion has--for better, worse, or (I'd argue) both--been embedded in human culture for millennia, how do we actually, empirically know what humans would believe without it? Moreover, it seems awfully hard to prove scientifically that humans are equal or have inherent rights. So even if one doesn't root those beliefs in faith, they still strike me as axiomatic than evidence-based.

Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:50:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adrift and what would make the consequences unacceptable. What is your pov on how to get to that point? without harming innocents? Who is innocent? The terrorists claim that everyone who dies by their acts are complicit in their complaints, and their grievances. Would not the same be true of everyone on the terrorists side of the equation? They can claim what they wish. The same as the war hawks are doing now.

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