RE: Paris under attack

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jlf1961 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:50:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Gee, and I thought this sort of thing could not happen in Europe because they have such great gun control laws! Then that could only be because you're a cretin, JLF! [:)] No it is because you and your european jackasses keep telling americans that mass shootings and shit only happen in the states because we dont have the same restrictive gun control laws. Look at every goddamn mother fucking gun control thread on these boards, you are always saying shit like mass shootings etc would not happen if we had the same damn laws as they have in Europe. Try again.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:53:40 AM)
Actually, jlf, we say they don't happen with such monotonous regularity that you have in the US - not that they won't happen at all.

Tkman117 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:53:54 AM)
No one ever said they wouldn't happen, they say that they would happen a lot less. This attack in Paris is big not only because it was a massive terrorist attack but also because shootings in general aren't common in France, thanks mostly because of firearm restrictions. Americans are just used to the idea of their schools and movie theatres and churches getting shot up by some attention seeking lunatic every few weeks. Not every idiot with a gun can be stopped, but Paris has atleast ensured that they aren't as common as they are in your twisted country.

Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 11:56:45 AM)
Well we do know that the nra has made it easy for any terrorist to be able to get guns quite easily when they are here. Muslim, christian or atheist, jew, hell ...anyone.

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 12:10:03 PM)
Read my posts and you will understand...I said exactly how i would do it...all it takes is reading my posts. Butch

NorthernGent -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 1:09:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 ONE OF THE PARIS TERRORISTS WAS A MUSLIM MIGRANT WHO REGISTERED AS A REFUGEE IN GREECE SIX WEEKS AGO also... http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/14/paris-terrorist-migrant-registered-refugee-greece/ as a small follow-up to the earlier exchange with northerngent, if anyone is interested---do a quick internet search for global caliphate, or islam and world domination, and you will find plenty to read. Yeah, there will be plenty to read. Lots of people have views on this subject. But, is there anything substantial in there? Is there anything that could refute the assertion that Western countries are the nations who generally invade other people's countries? Of course there isn't. Because the facts are there for everyone to see. If we started listing the invasions undertaken by countries such as England, the United States, and a few more; we'd be here all night listing them. Until you, and a few more, can be honest and fair; this is pointless.

NorthernGent -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 1:14:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people. The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA. We aren't talking about a purely Middle Eastern phenomenon. You will find activists/sympathisers in most countries. We are talking about people motivated by ideology, using real and legitimate grievances to promote their murderous hate. The question is how does one defeat an idea? And the only thing we really know for certain is that you cannot defeat an idea with a strategy that relies on military means alone. That seems to make the strategy you propose redundant before it even starts. You say that military means alone are not enough. What do you suggest be used ALONG WITH military means? Or do you support other measures to the exclusion of military means? If so, what are THOSE measures? We need to "understand them". No one's saying "understand them". If they (and by they I mean the fundamentalist aspects of Islam) want to run 'round lopping heads off and stoning women, then let them get on with it. None of my business. But, you (general you) go waltzing into someone else's country with grand notions of democracy or for economic gain or whatever, then they will fight back at some point and they're not going to play by your rules in a game they can't win. You don't need to understand them, you only have to leave 'em alone.

NorthernGent -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 1:21:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Well, the problem is that Frances best fighting force is the french foreign legion... How successful was that force when it tried ot murder de gaulle? were was the french armed forces in WW I - II dropping weapons and showing they're but to the enemy... point is the french have a better fighting force when it hires non french fighter.... A long story, but they did a lot better than what you're suggesting. WW1 they were the equal of the Germans for a long time despite the Germans having a huge industrial advantage. France was pretty much still a peasant country then. Not a bad achievement on the part of the French really.

jlf1961 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 1:37:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Actually, jlf, we say they don't happen with such monotonous regularity that you have in the US - not that they won't happen at all. That is not the implication made by many Europeans. However, my point was that restrictive gun laws or not, if someone wants to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time, they are going to find a way to do it, restrictive gun laws or not. The sad fact is that the weapons used probably originated inside the EU. Every former member of the Warsaw Pact manufactured the AK series of assault weapons by the millions. Warsaw Pact forces stockpiled the damn things all over eastern Europe, and it is extremely probable that some (a fucking lot) of those stockpiled went out a window or back door. Christ, the AK is the most popular and cheapest weapon on the black market simply because there were so many of the damn things. But, not trying to fuel any conspiracy theories, a couple of suicide bombers and some gunmen? While the attacks achieved much in the way of shock value, overall, from a strictly strategic point of view, it could have been many times worse. These attacks were up close and in your face. Consider the following: Would borders have been closed because of a van full of explosives was detonated? And trust me, explosives are easy to make in your basement, diesel and fertilizer. The body count would have been a hell of a lot higher. Dont misunderstand what I am saying, 1 person dead is still to many, but overall, this is a different strategy than the past. You people are used to seeing mass shootings in America on your news, where on our side, night clubs, trains, buses, etc are bombed. We know why this was done, the ideology that fueled the plan and implementation. My question is, why the change in tactics? I have been thinking on this question since Friday. From the video on American news broadcasts, it appears you folks have armed troops on every street corner. I think this was an opening act to a much bigger operation.

BamaD -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 1:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people. The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA. We aren't talking about a purely Middle Eastern phenomenon. You will find activists/sympathisers in most countries. We are talking about people motivated by ideology, using real and legitimate grievances to promote their murderous hate. The question is how does one defeat an idea? And the only thing we really know for certain is that you cannot defeat an idea with a strategy that relies on military means alone. That seems to make the strategy you propose redundant before it even starts. You say that military means alone are not enough. What do you suggest be used ALONG WITH military means? Or do you support other measures to the exclusion of military means? If so, what are THOSE measures? We need to "understand them". No one's saying "understand them". If they (and by they I mean the fundamentalist aspects of Islam) want to run 'round lopping heads off and stoning women, then let them get on with it. None of my business. But, you (general you) go waltzing into someone else's country with grand notions of democracy or for economic gain or whatever, then they will fight back at some point and they're not going to play by your rules in a game they can't win. You don't need to understand them, you only have to leave 'em alone. Actually last night Hillery reafirmed her believe that we have to understand and show empathy for them.

BamaD -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 1:54:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Actually, jlf, we say they don't happen with such monotonous regularity that you have in the US - not that they won't happen at all. That is not the implication made by many Europeans. However, my point was that restrictive gun laws or not, if someone wants to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time, they are going to find a way to do it, restrictive gun laws or not. The sad fact is that the weapons used probably originated inside the EU. Every former member of the Warsaw Pact manufactured the AK series of assault weapons by the millions. Warsaw Pact forces stockpiled the damn things all over eastern Europe, and it is extremely probable that some (a fucking lot) of those stockpiled went out a window or back door. Christ, the AK is the most popular and cheapest weapon on the black market simply because there were so many of the damn things. But, not trying to fuel any conspiracy theories, a couple of suicide bombers and some gunmen? While the attacks achieved much in the way of shock value, overall, from a strictly strategic point of view, it could have been many times worse. These attacks were up close and in your face. Consider the following: Would borders have been closed because of a van full of explosives was detonated? And trust me, explosives are easy to make in your basement, diesel and fertilizer. The body count would have been a hell of a lot higher. Dont misunderstand what I am saying, 1 person dead is still to many, but overall, this is a different strategy than the past. You people are used to seeing mass shootings in America on your news, where on our side, night clubs, trains, buses, etc are bombed. We know why this was done, the ideology that fueled the plan and implementation. My question is, why the change in tactics? I have been thinking on this question since Friday. From the video on American news broadcasts, it appears you folks have armed troops on every street corner. I think this was an opening act to a much bigger operation. Down deep you know the reason, the goal of terrorism, regardless of the brand, is not so much to destroy the country but to make the whole population feel vulnerable.

PeonForHer -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:04:53 PM)
quote: My question is, why the change in tactics? From what I've been reading recently, part of the answer is that it's getting much harder for people to get to ISIS-controlled areas through any of the surrounding countries. ISIS is telling supporters to train and arm themselves within their own countries in order to take action more locally.

oldncreepy -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:14:12 PM)
Here's a point of view on a solution provided by a Muslim: http://www.newsmax.com/TawfikHamid/isis-is-islamic-terrorism/2015/09/09/id/680965/ He has plenty to say on the topic if anyone is up for some reading.

dcnovice -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:21:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oldncreepy Here's a point of view on a solution provided by a Muslim: http://www.newsmax.com/TawfikHamid/isis-is-islamic-terrorism/2015/09/09/id/680965/ He has plenty to say on the topic if anyone is up for some reading. Fascinating read, thanks. I wish, though, that he'd fleshed out what he means by the "both theological and educational approaches" that would constitute his "terrorism vaccine."

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:27:44 PM)
ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos ORIGINAL: thompsonx Well, the problem is that Frances best fighting force is the french foreign legion... How successful was that force when it tried ot murder de gaulle? were was the french armed forces in WW I- II dropping weapons and showing they're but to the enemy... point is the french have a better fighting force when it hires non french fighter.... It is clear that parroting morinic tripe is easier than reading a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade.

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:28:55 PM)
Gee, and I thought this sort of thing could not happen in Europe because they have such great gun control laws! Perhaps you could tell us just how the gun laws in france differ from the u.s.?

tj444 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:30:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 From the video on American news broadcasts, it appears you folks have armed troops on every street corner. Of course they would now.. the accomplices arent gonna turn themselves in, are they?.. they are probably on the lookout for persons of interest, protecting the crime scenes and investigators and all that.. And too, a peaceful street corner without armed troops wouldnt make it to American news broadcasts, now would it??? [8\|] They are showing you what you want to see.. is that any different than repeated broadcasts of the towers coming down?

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:31:50 PM)
ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos They lost very few fighters and they did lots of physical and psychological damage seems asymmetrical warfare is effective for ISIS It would appear that someone has heard a new word on the telly. Had you ever read a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade you might have been aware that this sort of warfare has been going on since before christ was a crossing guard.[8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:35:54 PM)
ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos ORIGINAL: thompsonx The putsch of 61 was led by officers of the legion. The units directly involved in the putsch were the 1st and 2nd REP, the 1er REC and the 14th and 18th Regiments of Chasseurs Parachutistes. right so only part of the legion? or every legionnaire was involved? Makes some difference in how you receive the information... What exactly is your point?

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 2:37:49 PM)
ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 That was a putsch led by those officers. It was not a plot to murder De Gaulle as you stated. There is quite a difference. They saw De Gaulle as a traitor and if they had succeeded, they may have put him on trial as such; or they might have shot him out of hand. Who knows ? Once the putsch had been put down and the plotters dispersed and in hiding, THEN began the multiple plots to murder Big Charlie. By then though, they had neither the backing, organisation or resources of the Legion as a whole. Have it your way though, as I am sure you will. you have never been wrong yet and I would guess you never will be, omniscient that you are. After all, you COULD be right smile and if you aren't you can always hide behind name-calling and verbal bullying. I am in awe of this....thank you Some are clearly awed quite easily.[8\|]

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