RE: Paris under attack

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thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:40:15 PM)
ORIGINAL: kdsub I see... maybe you are just a little for them then... you believe there are reasons to murder men women and children... and cut off the heads of innocents...please tell me I want to understand. I want to know why these butchers are allowed to exist in the Muslim world. Do you think they could exist in the Christian world within the US? You certainly do. You were in the military so that makes you guilty of the crimes at my lai. You obviously do exist in the christian world within the usa. What if Christians decided to take over Missouri and murder and rape non believers... then sent suicide bombers and murders to Canada to kill hundreds... Would Christians of the world tolerate that? Hell no... Christian amerika went to the sandbox and murdered lots of folks and who in amerika stood up and said no? Did you? But Muslims do tolerate and SUPPORT the murderers in Paris... But christians do and did tolerate and support the murders in the sand box. if only in there refusal to excise them from their nations and deny them sanctuary...and NOT ARM and FINANCE them. Dude we arm and finance them. We buy their oil and sell them arms. The above is the dirty reality of Islam today. It is also the dirty reality of christianity.

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:44:22 PM)
ORIGINAL: kdsub Tom... I guess I missed the part where the 128 people murdered were not murdered after all... I have no clue where you got that? and damn... I, as a murdering Christian, did not get to join in. Will shit. You pay your taxes and don't complain so you obviously approve of murdering muslims? How may dead muslims in the sandbox ? If you choose to blame these deaths on the muslims then you have to accept the guilt of the dead in the sand box as a murdering christian.

ifmaz -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:47:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I see... maybe you are just a little for them then... you believe there are reasons to murder men women and children... and cut off the heads of innocents...please tell me I want to understand. I want to know why these butchers are allowed to exist in the Muslim world. Do you think they could exist in the Christian world within the US? What if Christians decided to take over Missouri and murder and rape non believers... then sent suicide bombers and murders to Canada to kill hundredths... Would Christians of the world tolerate that? Hell no... But Muslims do tolerate and SUPPORT the murderers in Paris... if only in there refusal to excise them from their nations and deny them sanctuary...and NOT ARM and FINANCE them. The above is the reality of today Butch Remember, Butch, since I support the NRA and SAF you know exactly where I stand: indiscriminate murder, obviously. Black and white, right Butch? Not only do I think barbarians could exist in the Christian world, I believe they already do exist, because "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:47:40 PM)
How do economic sanctions equate in your simple mind to me approving of the murder of Muslims?

BamaD -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub It continues to amaze me when people defend one atrocity by pointing out another. Will if they want to justify these Muslim butchers because a nut killed an abortion doctor and call it even Steven then I hope they take a trip to Paris and spout their spiel there... I'm sure it will be accepted with approval. Butch I'm not defending the actions of anyone, I'm pointing out your double standard: when a Christian kills an abortion doctor s/he's a nut, but when another nut following a different religion does the same thing everyone practicing that religion is condemned. You have repeatedly placed responsibility for a minute fraction of some group on the entirety of said group, then accuse anyone disagreeing with your views as defending the abhorrent behavior of the minute fraction. In fact they are roundly condemned by the Christian community, they are prosecuted by prosecuters, many of whom are Christians, they are convicted by juries with Christians on them. Nobody names their kids after them. And still after any such incident we hear (and not by everyone) that they are a typical Christian. Christians don't demand that honor killings be condemned before joining in on a condemnation of such acts. Why bring up a isolated nut before you will condemn Radical Islamists killing over 100 people with the backing and support of a large international organization? It is the difference between an isolated nut and a terror organization which now claims (although unrecognized) nationhood. NO this does not condemn all Moslems. Why is a condemnation of radical Islam so often missintrepedted as a condemnation of all of Islam?

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 6:54:12 PM)
I don't know you or where you stand on anything except right here and right now... and I am sorry I do.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 7:40:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub It continues to amaze me when people defend one atrocity by pointing out another. Will if they want to justify these Muslim butchers because a nut killed an abortion doctor and call it even Steven then I hope they take a trip to Paris and spout their spiel there... I'm sure it will be accepted with approval. Butch I'm not defending the actions of anyone, I'm pointing out your double standard: when a Christian kills an abortion doctor s/he's a nut, but when another nut following a different religion does the same thing everyone practicing that religion is condemned. You have repeatedly placed responsibility for a minute fraction of some group on the entirety of said group, then accuse anyone disagreeing with your views as defending the abhorrent behavior of the minute fraction. To be fair to Butch, I have seen many times on these boards where he advocated exactly this type of personal accountability, even when it included people such as himself. There is one particular topic, "one that shall not be named so as to not derail this thread entirely", that gets a lot of attention on this board. And I have seen repeatedly where Butch has stated that he supports it as a right, but that those who want to protect that right, including himself, need to take responsibility for spearheading real reform or be prepared to lose the right altogether, once people have had enough of it. I see this as just him being consistent in what he has always said-he is saying that those who are being misrepresented by these radicals need to step up and take the reins in getting rid of them. Its not a double standard for him, he has advocated for the same basic idea repeatedly in the past, and admitted that he himself has to be part of that.

ifmaz -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:37:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul To be fair to Butch, I have seen many times on these boards where he advocated exactly this type of personal accountability, even when it included people such as himself. There is one particular topic, "one that shall not be named so as to not derail this thread entirely", that gets a lot of attention on this board. And I have seen repeatedly where Butch has stated that he supports it as a right, but that those who want to protect that right, including himself, need to take responsibility for spearheading real reform or be prepared to lose the right altogether, once people have had enough of it. I see this as just him being consistent in what he has always said-he is saying that those who are being misrepresented by these radicals need to step up and take the reins in getting rid of them. Its not a double standard for him, he has advocated for the same basic idea repeatedly in the past, and admitted that he himself has to be part of that. If Butch actually believes that every Muslim is responsible for ridding the world of the radicalized people who practice a severely warped version of Islam, why has he not taken part in ridding the world of the Westboro Baptist Church? The same rules apply there, do they not -- a minute fraction speaks for the whole? Using his "logic", since he has not rid the world of the Westboro Baptist Church the only conclusion to be drawn is he supports them. Do you see the absolute absurdity of guilt by association? It's easy to sit on the sidelines and blame other groups, ideological, political, or otherwise, for the disagreeable actions of a fraction of said group. One feels absolved of any responsibility because it's not themselves, it's that other group's responsibility to police its own. The reality of the situation is far more nuanced and morally conflicted.

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:46:43 PM)
I guess I missed where the Westboro Baptist Church members blew up buildings killing 3,000 and murdered 128 innocents in France... I need to read the ifmaz news more often. Butch

ifmaz -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:49:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I guess I missed where the Westboro Baptist Church members blew up buildings killing 3,000 and murdered 128 innocents in France... I need to read the ifmaz news more often. Butch I suppose it should come as no surprise that you would cite a minute fraction of the conversation in an effort to discredit the whole.

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:52:55 PM)
Thank you Wayward5oul... I may very well be wrong on my stance in this thread but if i am it will not be because of personal animosity against Muslims as a Christian. Butch

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 8:54:11 PM)
I do that because this is what the thread is about... not your personal take on Christianity and its faults compared to Islam. Butch

ifmaz -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 9:05:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I do that because this is what the thread is about... not your personal take on Christianity and its faults compared to Islam. Butch I don't know how else to explain the absurdity of your position. I can't understand it for you.

BamaD -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 9:16:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul To be fair to Butch, I have seen many times on these boards where he advocated exactly this type of personal accountability, even when it included people such as himself. There is one particular topic, "one that shall not be named so as to not derail this thread entirely", that gets a lot of attention on this board. And I have seen repeatedly where Butch has stated that he supports it as a right, but that those who want to protect that right, including himself, need to take responsibility for spearheading real reform or be prepared to lose the right altogether, once people have had enough of it. I see this as just him being consistent in what he has always said-he is saying that those who are being misrepresented by these radicals need to step up and take the reins in getting rid of them. Its not a double standard for him, he has advocated for the same basic idea repeatedly in the past, and admitted that he himself has to be part of that. If Butch actually believes that every Muslim is responsible for ridding the world of the radicalized people who practice a severely warped version of Islam, why has he not taken part in ridding the world of the Westboro Baptist Church? The same rules apply there, do they not -- a minute fraction speaks for the whole? Using his "logic", since he has not rid the world of the Westboro Baptist Church the only conclusion to be drawn is he supports them. Do you see the absolute absurdity of guilt by association? It's easy to sit on the sidelines and blame other groups, ideological, political, or otherwise, for the disagreeable actions of a fraction of said group. One feels absolved of any responsibility because it's not themselves, it's that other group's responsibility to police its own. The reality of the situation is far more nuanced and morally conflicted. I think someone needs to interject into this a couple of facts. A Since the rise of ISIS they have murdered more Molems than Christians. B Since the rise of ISIS more of them have been killed by "moderate" M9olems than by the west.

kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/15/2015 9:28:18 PM)
How is it absurd to want economic pressure to force the Saudi's...and the Pakistani's...and the Egyptians...and the rest of the Muslim world to crack down on the radicals among them... To form a coalition force to fight said radicals instead of using our blood to fight for them. How is it absurd to want the nations of Islam to take responsibility for the killers their religion is breeding...over and over and over. These radicals could not exist without the support of many of the so called...moderate Muslims... if not direct support then their failure to point out the radicals to the proper authorities. What is absurd is your position on THIS tragic thread. Butch

tweakabelle -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 2:56:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 ONE OF THE PARIS TERRORISTS WAS A MUSLIM MIGRANT WHO REGISTERED AS A REFUGEE IN GREECE SIX WEEKS AGO also... http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/14/paris-terrorist-migrant-registered-refugee-greece/ as a small follow-up to the earlier exchange with northerngent, if anyone is interested---do a quick internet search for global caliphate, or islam and world domination, and you will find plenty to read. Yeah, there will be plenty to read. Lots of people have views on this subject. But, is there anything substantial in there? Is there anything that could refute the assertion that Western countries are the nations who generally invade other people's countries? Of course there isn't. Because the facts are there for everyone to see. If we started listing the invasions undertaken by countries such as England, the United States, and a few more; we'd be here all night listing them. Until you, and a few more, can be honest and fair; this is pointless. It's not even necessary to do historical research. One need only look at the situation in the Muslim/Arab world today, where there are foreign armies killing Arabs/Muslims civilians on a daily basis (Iraq, Occupied Palestine and the victims of Uncle Sam's drone war in Afghanistan/Pakistan are examples that spring to mind). People tend to leave these killings out of consideration because they don't make the news in the West but in the Arab/Muslim world these killings dominate the headlines. Groups like IS feed off this violence, it generates new recruits to their cause and it elicits sympathy for their cause from some sections of the population. Nothing excuses the butchery we see in Paris. Equally nothing excuses the butchery we see on a daily basis in Occupied Palestine, Waziristan, Iraq and other parts of the Arab/Muslim world perpetrated by Western and Israeli armies. We are (rightly) vocal in condemning the violence done to innocent Parisians, but not so vocal about condemning the deaths of just-as-innocent Iraqis, Palestinians or Waziris - most of us are silent about those deaths. Some of us can even find reasons or excuses to justify those deaths ... If we are serious about stopping IS and its horrifying senseless brutality, then we need to ask whether activities of Western armies/Govts in the Arab/Muslim world have contributed to that brutality. Arab/Muslim armies are not occupying land or fighting in the West but Western armies are occupying land and fighting in Arab/Muslim lands .

Musicmystery -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 5:36:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub How is it absurd to want economic pressure to force the Saudi's...and the Pakistani's...and the Egyptians...and the rest of the Muslim world to crack down on the radicals among them... To form a coalition force to fight said radicals instead of using our blood to fight for them. How is it absurd to want the nations of Islam to take responsibility for the killers their religion is breeding...over and over and over. These radicals could not exist without the support of many of the so called...moderate Muslims... if not direct support then their failure to point out the radicals to the proper authorities. What is absurd is your position on THIS tragic thread. Butch What's worse than absurd is your blind insistence on condemning all Muslims for the acts of Al Qaeda and ISIS (ignoring in particular that both are fighting and killing other Muslims as well), all the while insisting you aren't speaking from anger or prejudice, but reason. Young Goodman Brown was right. Self-righteousness is the greatest evil.

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 5:40:18 AM)
ORIGINAL: kdsub How do economic sanctions equate in your simple mind to me approving of the murder of Muslims? I am pretty sure the whole world knows that the usa sent troops to the sand box and lots of muslims died as a result of that. That you did nothing to stop that makes you complicit by your own logic. It is your simple mind that does not understand that.

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 5:58:42 AM)
In fact they are roundly condemned by the Christian community, Not the whole christian community. they are prosecuted by prosecuters, many of whom are Christians, they are convicted by juries with Christians on them. Nobody names their kids after them. And still after any such incident we hear (and not by everyone) that they are a typical Christian. Who besides the christians bomb abortion clinics? Who besides christians preach that god calls abortion murder? Who besides christians call out for a stop to this "so called" murder of the unborn? Now of course it would put them in a difficult position if they condoned this but they do pray for the "soule" of the bombers but not so much for the soules of the dead clinic workers...so please let us not be disingenuous in our denials of guilt.[8\|] Why bring up a isolated nut It does not seem to be all that isolated. At least eight murders occurred in the United States since 1990, as well as 41 bombings and 173 arsons at clinics. Why bring up a isolated nut before you will condemn Radical Islamists killing over 100 people with the backing and support of a large international organization? According to the cia that large international organization is only about 20,000 strong. How many christians are there? It is the difference between an isolated nut and a terror organization which now claims (although unrecognized) nationhood. NO this does not condemn all Moslems. Why is a condemnation of radical Islam so often missintrepedted as a condemnation of all of Islam? Simply reading this thread one finds that.

Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 6:01:47 AM)
Bill kristol again is saying we should be sending troops out by the tens of thousands. Why is he willing to sacrifice american lives to kill an idea. fucking moronic turd

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