RE: Paris under attack (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message

thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 8:08:50 PM)

Russia didn't defeat anyone with their own weapons did they?

Another cold warior with his fist in the air and his head up his ass? Are you going to tell us about how the russians had no weapons and if it were not for amerikan lend lease they would have starved to death in the snow? Common tell us just how ignorant you really are.



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 8:24:53 PM)

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

If you really wanted to stoke the fire you'd question why things like this don't happen in Texas, the alleged gun capital of the world, but I'd advise against doing so.

Texas has been the site of some of the deadliest mass shootings of the past 50 years.
Here is a list of the worst mass shootings in Texas history:

Oct. 16, 1991: A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby’s Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.

Aug. 1, 1966: Charles Whitman opened fire from the clock tower at the University of Texas at Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31.

Nov. 5, 2009: Thirteen soldiers and civilians were killed and more than two dozen wounded when a gunman walked into the Soldier Readiness Processing Center at Fort Hood, Texas, and opened fire. Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan is charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.

Sept. 15, 1999: Seven people were killed and seven others injured when a gunman opened fire inside a crowded chapel at Fort Worth’s Wedgewood Baptist Church. Some worshipers believed that Larry Gene Ashbrook was pulling a prank and continued singing after the shooting began. The murderer killed himself.







Marini -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 8:53:24 PM)

This thread is fairly interesting, if you skip the normal put downs and name calling.✌️
One point I have not seen mentioned is another REAL phenomena.
Many western countries may eventually live more like countries like Israel.
By that I mean fortified with fall out shelters, military walking the streets, metal detectors everywhere, a constant heightened sense of vulnerability, etc.
I don't see any end in sight any time soon, and IF these atrocities continue, we may be headed down the road
to an increase in security measures, inreased military and police presence on the streets, on the domestic front and an increase in defensive strategies.
In the end, we are either going to increase offensive strategies, increase defensive strategies, or
do both or do nothing and accept this as the "new normal".
There are countries that have lived for many years with random acts of terrorism, welcome to the future?
I hope not, I pray not.
✌️



BamaD -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 9:08:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Gun control is not a related issue, Marc, since the weapons used were military spec AK's. I am quite positive these animals did not go down to the French version of Wal-Mart or Academy sports and buy these weapons off the shelf.


If every one of them French folk had been packing this would not have been the tragedy it was. Heck, it might not have been planned at all.

That is an argument that could be made. I wouldn't actually make it, but it could be made. So, yeah, it is a related issue.


Against the terrorists with firearms, quite possibly. Against the terrorists with suicide vests, most definitely not.

If you really wanted to stoke the fire you'd question why things like this don't happen in Texas, the alleged gun capital of the world, but I'd advise against doing so.


Garland Tx, result, two terrorists with AK + surprise, vs one 65 year old reserve cop with a handgun.
Result two dead terrorist one wounded reserve cop.
No guarantee that it would always end that way.
I would also argue though that terrorists are outside the gun control debate as thier sources are outside normal channels.



kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/16/2015 9:22:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

When I talk of economic sanctions to force change in the Muslim world, as often happens, some idiot brings up past Christian atrocities... why do it? To me the only possible reason is to compare Christian atrocities to Muslim...now what the hell does that have to do with this thread? If Christians were to blow up Meccas and kill millions... would that make these butchers and the religion that spawns them any less guilty?

Butch




Get a fucking grip Butch....... Even ISIS are making £billions from selling oil, wtf do you think a few sanctions will achieve.



Will Politesub if we had the will we could easily say..." We will not buy a drop of oil, provide military equipment and support, and we will cease all trade except for emergency humanitarian aid until you do your share. We have the production and reserves to back it up now.. of course it would take the rest of the western world to be effective. It worked on Iran and there is no reason it could not work for the rest of the Muslim world.

It is the only way that has a chance of working outside of US and European troops on the ground... If you have a better idea lets hear it.

Butch



tweakabelle -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 1:22:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Nothing excuses the butchery we see in Paris. Equally nothing excuses the butchery we see on a daily basis in Occupied Palestine, Waziristan, Iraq and other parts of the Arab/Muslim world perpetrated by Western and Israeli armies. We are (rightly) vocal in condemning the violence done to innocent Parisians, but not so vocal about condemning the deaths of just-as-innocent Iraqis, Palestinians or Waziris - most of us are silent about those deaths. Some of us can even find reasons or excuses to justify those deaths ...

If we are serious about stopping IS and its horrifying senseless brutality, then we need to ask whether activities of Western armies/Govts in the Arab/Muslim world have contributed to that brutality. Arab/Muslim armies are not occupying land or fighting in the West but Western armies are occupying land and fighting in Arab/Muslim lands .


It's obvious that Western governments have contributed. If some foreign nation set up shop in England we'd be more than slightly disappointed and violence would be the inevitable outcome.

Personally couldn't care less about IS or whatever they're called, to me it's just more of the same of people fighting over pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of life, nor what's happened in France.

The whole Israel/Palestine thing and what Western governments get upto bores the life out of me. 'Time they came up with something new, interesting and productive.

It's a shame that those who advocate violence from their arm chairs, some on this thread, can't fight it out on an island somewhere with people who go out and commit murder. That would be useful as people merely sitting having a beer could live their lives in peace.

Not the way it works unfortunately.

Despite the obvious culpability of the West and Isreali Govts, it is almost scary the way that most people posting here on this topic refuse to acknowledge this fact. Or even worse, insist that all the blame belongs to the 'other side' or Islam or <insert your pet Middle Eastern hate here> and if those blameworthy people/religions/Govts don't reform themselves we, the West, should go in and reform them to our template and satisfaction. That really worked out well in Iraq didn't it?

This is not to assert that the West is entirely and solely to blame for the mess. There are many other factors and groups that share responsibility. But unless we acknowledge that Western actions and policies have contributed substantially to the problem, we will remain part of the problem and not part of the solution.

The Sykes Picot division of the Middle East, imposed on the locals without their participation or even consultation by the French and British is collapsing visibly. Straining under the disintegration of nations such as Iraq (now effectively 3 statelets), Syria (which seems to be heading towards two statelets - an Allawite East and Sunni West) and Yemen, the increasing influence and power of non-State actors such as IS and the Kurds and hurtling headlong into a religious/sectarian war, it is difficult to see any viable peace within the current national (Sykes-Picot) configurations.

Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past and impose a solution that suits Western interests at the expense of local interests. Solutions will be arrived at by local and regional forces. The role of the West is to support whatever arrangements the inhabitants of the region deem best suits their interests



zombiegurlsos -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 3:07:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I can't believe this thread has not been already started.
A series of coordinated TERRORIST attacks.

This is horrible.




The attack failed Paris is alive and well.... if you don't mind it don't matter



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 6:58:48 AM)


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Garland Tx, result, two terrorists with AK + surprise, vs one 65 year old reserve cop with a handgun.
Result two dead terrorist one wounded reserve cop.
No guarantee that it would always end that way.
I would also argue though that terrorists are outside the gun control debate as thier sources are outside normal channels.

This is a particularly large load of barnyard commodity? The terrorist were suckered into an ambush...too bad for them. When I was in the military we were always cautioned that going to someone elses ambush was not a good idea.



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 7:06:58 AM)

ORIGINAL: Marini

This thread is fairly interesting, if you skip the normal put downs and name calling.✌️
One point I have not seen mentioned is another REAL phenomena.
Many western countries may eventually live more like countries like Israel.
By that I mean fortified with fall out shelters, military walking the streets, metal detectors everywhere, a constant heightened sense of vulnerability, etc.
I don't see any end in sight any time soon, and IF these atrocities continue, we may be headed down the road
to an increase in security measures, inreased military and police presence on the streets, on the domestic front and an increase in defensive strategies.
In the end, we are either going to increase offensive strategies, increase defensive strategies, or
do both or do nothing and accept this as the "new normal".
There are countries that have lived for many years with random acts of terrorism, welcome to the future?
I hope not, I pray not.
✌️
Consider the counter example of viet-nam. We are now buds with the "commies" and do two billion with a b dollars a year with the "evil empire"
Consider the counter example of russia....we share common "ground" in outerspace and on the planet earth. The struts for the landing gear on the airbus are forged from titanium and gundrilled to a depth of 7'x28" +/- .030" in the only facility in the world capable of it...russia. They are then sent to the usa for finish grinding and assembly. Isis will be no different. Find a way to make money with them and it is all over but the party and the champagne



tj444 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 8:37:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Today, apparently as a result of the events in Paris, 7 states here have stopped accepting Syrian refugees..


Oh dear. But is there anywhere - say, much nearer to them - where Syrian refugees can go and get a warm welcome? Why yes, there is! Into the arms of ISIL!

If they are so inclined, perhaps.. but they can turn to them no matter where in the world they are (as did the Marathon bombers), and that is the problem.. govts have seen this happen before and dont want their head on a stick by voters/Americans should they "let in" the wrong person..

Supposedly the "mastermind" of the Paris attacks is a Belgian national.. to me there is a parallel to the Marathon bombers (former refugees)... they were given a chance at a good life and for whatever reason they became disillusioned and turned to terrorism.. I dont understand that mentality... yeah, i get that the US is a shit hole where many people lead a less than stellar life but ffs that is better than living in a war-zone in your home country, surely.. And what makes the mid-east refugees more at risk of becoming terrorists than Mexican/S American refugees? cuz I have never heard of any Mexican refugee (fleeing cartel violence, etc) turning into a terrorist before..


Yep.

My only point, though, was a lot simpler: that, now, it's *crucial* that we deal with the right problem and in the right way. The West's strategies regarding the Middle East to date have clearly made things worse and have contributed - or even been the main cause of - ISIS today. It's important that we don't fuck things up still further with kneejerk analyses of the problem (that it's all down to people being Muslims, for instance) and kneejerk strategies to keep ourselves safe (stop the Muslims from getting here, for instance).

The time for heroic, root'n, toot'n, brainlessness is past. We actually need to be *intelligent* about this, now. ISIS represents a 'perfect storm' of evil (yep, I said it - because I really do believe ISIS is evil, if that word has any legitimate application at all): it's fused medieval religious ideology with 21st Century tech and all that offers in terms of creating and implementing a ruthless terrorising machine. We in the west can match that: we have the brawn, we have the brains - but we really do need to draw on *both* this time round.

As far as I can see, most of us, even at the governmental level, haven't even got to stage one of the process, yet - this being 'Understand what exactly you're fighting and what makes that enemy tick'. Just one of the variety of things that gets in the way of such understanding is the fact that our politicians in the west aren't exactly there for understanding the problem and dealing with it efficaciously. They are there for getting into power and remaining there. Thus they'll offer *not* what they think is the solution, but what they think the average schmo who might vote for them *believes to be the solution*. And the average schmo is a bollocks-for-brains, frankly.

"The West"??? Imo, the US is the mastermind of the "western" strategies, other countries have just too blindly & stupidly followed them.. take Iraq, the US lied and started a war on false pretenses and have shown that they cant be trusted.. There is no reason for any country to be in Iraq at all, then or now.. I have heard all the feeble justifications like oh, Saddam is a very bad guy, blah, blah, blah.. But the US meddling in the mid-east goes back a long time, back to when they were fucking around with the Shah of Iran, etc.. and why? for oil and the money it represents.. why is Saudi Arabia a "friend" to the US when most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi?

Imo the biggest damage to the terrorist cause would be for the US and all western countries to get the fuck out of the mid-east and sever all ties with all of them, including stop buying their oil, kick them all out of the financial market, dont trade, buy or sell from any of them.. Leave them to their own devices, let them fight among themselves, let them kill each other off.. That is how I feel about it.. cuz what has been tried and done aint working..



Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 9:36:16 AM)

All of the attackers from Friday’s massacre in Paris so far have been identified as European Union nationals, according to a top EU official. The announcement further casts doubt on the validity of a Syrian passport found near the bodies of a slain attacker.
“Let me underline, the profile of the terrorists so far identified tells us this is an internal threat,” Federica Mogherini, the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy/Vice-President of the European Commission, said after a meeting with EU foreign ministers. “It is all EU citizens so far. This can change with the hours, but so far it is quite clear it is an issue of internal domestic security.”
The majority of attackers were identified as French or Belgian nationals. An Egyptian passport was also found, but the Egyptian Ambassador to France said it belonged to a critically wounded victim and not a perpetrator. The Syrian passport caused a ruckus, with some politicians in Europe and the U.S. calling for a halt to Syrian refugee resettlement. An increasing number of state governors are trying to defund the settlement program. American officials told CBS News that the passport might be fake, while British-daily the Independent reported that a man was arrested in Serbia while carrying a Syrian passport with matching details to the one found in Paris.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11999927/Paris-France-terror-attacks-isil-Belgium-Molenbeek-suspects-Syria-Raqqa-bombing-live.html



BOXMOOR74 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 9:43:49 AM)

Be assured that with the Russian plane bomb and the Paris murders that the days of Isis are numbered. They had 3,000 fanatics joining them a day not that many months ago now 50 new fanatics are joining them a day.

Finally the countries like Russia,USA,UK etc are starting to put aside their differences and focusing vast resources against these maniac's who expect Jesus to come to their aid when they are almost wiped out.

When all the land they took is retaken and is repopulated with stable governments they will fade away because their prophesy will have proven to have been false.

All the innocents that have died gave their blood for a good cause.

Just too bad that our governments are so slow on the uptake.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 9:51:02 AM)

The problem is Lucy, they are what is loosely described as "the fifth column in our ranks" and they are also all Islamics.

As much as the amam's declare fatwa's all over the place, it isn't stopping mini-madrassah's within the mosques or faith schools from teaching this crap or encouraging members of their flocks to give up those who are deemed as showing signs of radicalization.

I flatly refuse to believe that nobody knows what is going on until after the fact - it's all too convenient IMHO.



Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 9:55:57 AM)

LMAO you sound like the nazi justifiers against the jews.
you buy the propaganda obviously.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 9:58:56 AM)

No, I don't buy it.

But was anyone else except Islamics involved in any of these atrocities??
I haven't heard anything to the contrary... have you??



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 10:16:51 AM)


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But was anyone else except Islamics involved in any of these atrocities??
I haven't heard anything to the contrary... have you??


How many islamist were involved in the invasion of iraq in search of weapons of mass deception/regieme change?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 10:19:02 AM)

None that I'm aware of, thompson.

But what the fuck has that to do with the Paris atrocities that this thread is about??



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 10:20:35 AM)


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

None that I'm aware of, thompson.

But what the fuck has that to do with the Paris atrocities that this thread is about??


Perhaps it speaks directly to motivation?



Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 10:21:47 AM)

I know "Anonymous" pisses off a lot of people, but If they can target and disrupt ISIS communications somehow...?

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/17/anonymous-says-it-has-taken-down-5500-twitter-accounts

The opening salvos in the hacktivist war on ISIS have begun, with Anonymous claiming to have taken down 5,500 Twitter accounts associated with the terror group.

On Monday, the infamous cyberattack group promised to unleash its powers on the barbarians behind the Paris attack. By early Tuesday, it tweeted its early success.

"We report that more than 5500 Twitter account of #ISIS are now #down! #OpParis #Anonymous #ExpectUs," an account associated with Anonymous's new front tweeted early Tuesday morning.
The group later posted a link to an instructional text for members to help track down more ISIS-related social media accounts.

The Islamic State uses the web as a terror tool -- doing much of its recruitment and propaganda over social media.

According to the Mirror U.K., Anonymous has also collected the names, addresses and phone numbers of several other ISIS suspects living in countries including Afghanistan, Tunisia and Somalia, but has yet to release them.

In a video released Monday, a man wearing a Guy Fawkes mask said the Islamic State militants who claimed responsibility for the Paris attacks were "vermin" and Anonymous would hunt them down.

"These attacks cannot remain unpunished," the man said in French.

"We are going to launch the biggest operation ever against you. Expect many cyberattacks. War has been declared. Get ready."



Lucylastic -> RE: Paris under attack (11/17/2015 10:23:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

No, I don't buy it.

But was anyone else except Islamics involved in any of these atrocities??
I haven't heard anything to the contrary... have you??

DO you believe all catholics and protestants around the world are responsible for all the IRA and UVF bullshit back in the UK?
Terrorist are NOT all MUSLIM



Page: <<   < prev  16 17 [18] 19 20   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875