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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 1:14:46 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It does not stop you from commenting on Ferguson when you don't live here. You can rant all you want... you were wrong... proven wrong with quotes from the report...and you had to eat crap... but keep on dreaming... if you say it often enough even you will believe it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/8/2015 1:34:51 PM >

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 1:28:07 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

Oside you are my hero!!! Finally, someone that understands my point.

I understand why people are not remaining in their home countries and fighting (that has been a big argument on refugees...if they don't like what is happening in their countries, they should stand up and fight back). I understand seeking safety and not wanting your kids in the midst. What I cannot understand is why those Muslims already in other countries (those still in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran... Cannot because they would be labeled apostates) don't group together and basically do a media blitz. "We are Muslim. If you want to use our name, claim to do stuff in our name...here are the standards". Granted, I would assume that, like Martin Luther, they would have to adopt a new name and break away from those who claim to be "Muslim" who have failed to follow the accepted teachings. Yeah..it sucks (NOT unlike the Balto. Colts taking off for Indy AND being allowed to keep OUR name...but I digress ) but I think that the name has been permanently sullied anyway



She will be, because like you she ain't making a jot of sense.

The comparison between Protestantism/Catholicism then and Islam today is entirely incomparable.

People rejected Catholicism because of the widespread corruption and decay that was endemic within the church. That wasn't a situation where a few rogue elements were sullying the name.

Whole swathes of people, countries in fact, decided the catholic church was a farce and not in keeping with the idea of piety, sobriety and worship.

Islam today, on the other hand, is a few rogue elements behaving like, well Westerners in fact; as they see the answer to their problems as armed insurrection.

Your post is just another: "Islam at heart is the problem", you've merely added a not so subtle twist that shouldn't really fool anyone - not even yourself.

Would you feel the need to reject your beliefs simply because a few idiots down the street are intent on violence? 'Course you wouldn't but you assume that guilt by association means Muslims need to 'stand up and be counted'.

Catholicism then was not reformed because of a few rogue elements; it was reformed because the whole system was one big piss take. Monumentally different.

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 1:35:17 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr




If "moderate (personally, I don't think there's any such thing) muslims" would open their mouths ... shun the evil-doers instead of condoning the evil behavior by their silence, the evil-doers would find some other banner to fly.




I think the bottom line is that if you don't like how your group is perceived, but never do anything to dispel those perceptions - then you don't get to complain. And that's not just a religious thing.

So, Michael nailed it.



Why on earth should they HAVE to do it? So that some bigots feel great about themselves? Seriously, anybody who identifies as Christian then should be out on the streets and loudly distance him and herself from everything an extremist Christian does.

I have been out on the streets distancing myself from what the Westboro Baptist Church does.

I have been out on the streets showing the good things that come from the motorcycle community because people think if you own a motorcycle, you're Sons of Anarchy.

The reality is that this isn't just a religion thing. To me, the most complicit person in the James Holmes shooting was the University psychologist - who was going to notify the authorities that he was dangerous, but decided not to when he dropped out of school because it was no longer the school's problem.

People knew something was up with the San Bernardino shooters - no one said anything. The freedom of religion means that the government cannot police what happens there...which means it's up for the members of the religion to police themselves. (Regardless of the religion)



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 1:43:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		But NorthernGent don't you believe that some religious leaders of Islam have had a hand in the fanaticism? I also believe that it will take a majority of religious leaders to preach the rejection of radicalism before it will happen. It is being done in many areas of the world but not in others.
It is a shame that there is no unified governing body of Islam that could be appealed to.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 1:59:16 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr




If "moderate (personally, I don't think there's any such thing) muslims" would open their mouths ... shun the evil-doers instead of condoning the evil behavior by their silence, the evil-doers would find some other banner to fly.



I think the bottom line is that if you don't like how your group is perceived, but never do anything to dispel those perceptions - then you don't get to complain. And that's not just a religious thing.

So, Michael nailed it.

It would appear from the above that you approve of the usa involvement in the sandbox, columbia, viet nam, nicaragua chilie

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 2:06:39 PM   
KYsissy


Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR~ I imagine very time something like this happens there is a collective "aw crap, not again" in 99.99% of Muslim househds across the US.

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 2:07:04 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: kdsub

It does not stop you from commenting on Ferguson when you don't live here.

I do not have to live there to read the two reports from the doj.


You can rant all you want... you were wrong... proven wrong with quotes from the report.

Anyone can pull a couple of quotes up. You have not read the two reports...if you had we could have a discussion about it.


..and you had to eat crap...

Only in your dreams




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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 2:16:10 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

Oside you are my hero!!! Finally, someone that understands my point.

I understand why people are not remaining in their home countries and fighting (that has been a big argument on refugees...if they don't like what is happening in their countries, they should stand up and fight back). I understand seeking safety and not wanting your kids in the midst. What I cannot understand is why those Muslims already in other countries (those still in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran... Cannot because they would be labeled apostates) don't group together and basically do a media blitz. "We are Muslim. If you want to use our name, claim to do stuff in our name...here are the standards". Granted, I would assume that, like Martin Luther, they would have to adopt a new name and break away from those who claim to be "Muslim" who have failed to follow the accepted teachings. Yeah..it sucks (NOT unlike the Balto. Colts taking off for Indy AND being allowed to keep OUR name...but I digress ) but I think that the name has been permanently sullied anyway

Still hold a bit of a grudge over the Colts?
Don't blame you, after all Clevland got possesion of the Browns name.
And before he snuck off in the middle of the night Irsay dismantled the Colts.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 2:19:21 PM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr




If "moderate (personally, I don't think there's any such thing) muslims" would open their mouths ... shun the evil-doers instead of condoning the evil behavior by their silence, the evil-doers would find some other banner to fly.



I think the bottom line is that if you don't like how your group is perceived, but never do anything to dispel those perceptions - then you don't get to complain. And that's not just a religious thing.

So, Michael nailed it.

It would appear from the above that you approve of the usa involvement in the sandbox, columbia, viet nam, nicaragua chilie



So, because I think people who live in the US should speak up when they know something is going to happen, somehow to you means that I approve of actions that happened on foreign soil?


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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 2:20:46 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Still hold a bit of a grudge over the Colts?
Don't blame you, after all Clevland got possesion of the Browns name.
And before he snuck off in the middle of the night Irsay dismantled the Colts.


Oh, you should hear the screaming here over the Chargers most likely leaving. And worse yet (to the Chargers fans, anyways) they could be sharing a stadium with the Raiders.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 2:31:06 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

The reality is that this isn't just a religion thing.


That's it in a nutshell - it's *never* just a religion thing - not with Christians, nor with Muslims. It flabbergasts me constantly that so many people seem to assume that everything about what this or that group of Muslims does is entirely determined by their religion. Why would it be? It isn't for people who are Christian.

Thus, for instance, the bloke who runs my corner shop has no doubt had a relatively comfortable life. I doubt he's ever been in a gun fight and if he suffered economic hardship in the past, he probably isn't now. He knows which side his bread's buttered. Why would he want to upset all that and join with a set of Muslims who he's never met, probably *will* never meet; who don't live in England and probably don't live in the country of his forebears and, indeed, are actively killing other Muslims (and more than people of any other religion), quite possibly in that country? What on earth in common do they have, apart from being Muslim?

To put it simply: If I'd had the life of Mr Ali at the corner shop, I'd have one kind of outlook. If I'd lived the life of, say, a Syrian who'd seen his wife and kids killed by sarin gas, I'd most likely have an entirely different outlook. If I'd been cracked and furious enough, I might have even ended up in Daesh's welcoming hands and become a killer myself.

It's an utter nonsense to talk of Muslims being one monolithic group. There are 1.5 billion of them, from all kinds of different countries and cultures, with different languages, different social and economic backgrounds and living under entirely different political systems. It's also inane to talk of each and every Muslim's life being entirely determined by their religion. That assumption flies in the face of everything that the entire wealth of social studies have ever produced.



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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 4:02:05 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


ORIGINAL: thompsonx



It would appear from the above that you approve of the usa involvement in the sandbox, columbia, viet nam, nicaragua chilie



So, because I think people who live in the US should speak up when they know something is going to happen, somehow to you means that I approve of actions that happened on foreign soil?

I have yet to see you condem it here. So you must approve.


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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 4:03:49 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


Oh, you should hear the screaming here over the Chargers most likely leaving. And worse yet (to the Chargers fans, anyways) they could be sharing a stadium with the Raiders.

The only thing I would share with the raiders is arsnic.



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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 4:06:38 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


ORIGINAL: thompsonx



It would appear from the above that you approve of the usa involvement in the sandbox, columbia, viet nam, nicaragua chilie



So, because I think people who live in the US should speak up when they know something is going to happen, somehow to you means that I approve of actions that happened on foreign soil?

I have yet to see you condem it here. So you must approve.




If you have 4 pencils and I have 4 apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple, because aliens don't wear hats.





_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 4:33:20 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		If you have 4 pencils and I have 4 apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple, because aliens don't wear hats.

I knew you would see it my way once you gave it a bit of thought.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 4:45:34 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You are right of course...but it is being done in the name of Islam. I would also venture to say that the manipulators play on the beliefs of the 1.5 billion Muslims for recruits. So the bottom line ... it is religion that is the driving force...even though it may be through manipulation. What do you think?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 4:53:55 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


It's an utter nonsense to talk of Muslims being one monolithic group. There are 1.5 billion of them, from all kinds of different countries and cultures, with different languages, different social and economic backgrounds and living under entirely different political systems. It's also inane to talk of each and every Muslim's life being entirely determined by their religion. That assumption flies in the face of everything that the entire wealth of social studies have ever produced.




I absolutely agree. I believe that the majority don't agree with what the minority is doing. But, because of how insular their communities are (at least here in our area) it appears that they're just going . They might be doing it privately, but again because they rarely participate outside of their own communities, we hear nothing about it.

M has speculated that perhaps, even they are afraid of the extremists.




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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 5:47:23 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

So...why don't the peaceful Muslims get together and say "our name, our rules, get the f-- out. call yourself whatever you want but you are no longer 'Muslims". Hey, for Catholics in medieval times, taking away the name often completely destroyed the governments of those who did not follow what the church said.


Well I obviously can't read minds and know for sure but my guess is even if they did that, the terrorists would tell them to go get bent. And since Muslims all over the world have said they don't agree with what they are doing and they are actively fighting them I'm not sure what your point is. This isn't a boys club that you can send people away from and tell them not to come back. From what I have read, there are many different Muslims much like there are many different forms of Christians. They don't all believe the same things and they are not going to agree on everything they do believe.

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 6:01:15 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
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Status: offline 		I think my point there is that, without putting in standards, rules, an entity that decides what the course should be...Muslims are now attempting to prove what they are NOT (setting aside the point of whether or not they SHOULD have to define themselves) and I think they are finding that it is impossible because, by NOT defining themselves, they have now been defined by the "crazier" element. Right or wrong...it is an uphill battle and possibly could have been avoided. (And this is probably where my "sub-ness" shows through LOL. I LOVE rules,regulations, and defined limits)

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/8/2015 6:08:07 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

But if I was a Muslim, I'm gonna argue non stop about how it was permissible because Muhammad did it. Even if we ditch the older version, it's still a 16 yr old girl. 50 yr old and 16 yr old, just too much for me.

How is it that you claim to live in singapore and do not know that the legal age of consent in singapore is 14?

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

http://www.ageofconsent.com/singapore.htm


Maybe she got confused when she went to this link http://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/legal-age-for-sex-in-singapore/ where it says


"Pursuant to section 376A of the Penal Code, sexual penetration of a minor under 16 is an offence even if the minor has given consent. Both male and female minors are covered by this provision. In addition, according to the definitions of the aforementioned section, sex consists of sexual penetration, and includes vaginal, oral or anal sex.

In addition, commercial sex with minors under 18 is also a punishable offence pursuant to section 376B of the Penal Code. Furthermore, under section 376C of the Penal Code, Singapore citizens or Permanent Residents who engage in commercial sex with a minor under 18 will still be liable even if the acts were done in a location outside of Singapore"

or perhaps she lives there and just might know more than you do about the situation.


< Message edited by thishereboi -- 12/8/2015 6:10:15 PM >

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