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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 4:35:39 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

OK, this shit goes on at the moment, how many of you wanting Muslims to make a stand (and I see absolutely no reason why they should)

are YOU going to make a stand against this:

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/muslim-girl-reportedly-attacked-called-isis-bronx-public-school

Seriously, I don't feel responsible for every evil deed another atheist does, most Catholics don't want to carry the guilt of all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of their religion, so why expect the Muslims to walk around with "mea culpa" and express that they are not "like them" - those idiots who target funerals with signs, Westboro Baptist church I think, they call themselves Christians, do all Christians here feel the need to tell the world they are not like them? Does every gun owner stand up if there is a mass shooting or another tragic accident of a toddler shooting somebody and goes "We're not like them?"

I love dogs, my dogs are big and super friendly (ask Peon) but I don't feel responsible for every idiot who's dog bites somebody because the owner was too stupid or lazy to train the dogs.

The majority of Muslims are people like you, they were born into a religion and that's it, would they have been born into a Catholic or Protestant family they'd be that, just like you'd be a Muslim if you'd be born into a Muslim family. They don't want a holy war and all that bullshit, but by treating them like freaking lepers and claiming they are all evil and should wear badges, they get pushed and pushed, and you gotta wonder how far you can push a group before they snap, do we really want to make the moderate ones so frustrated that they see no other way than joining the radicals?

As for the brainiac who claimed that IRA members were excommunicated but couldn't back it up, I called the Catholic priest here (no biggie, nice guy and we work together on some charities) guess what: NEVER HAPPENED, explanation, excommunication is a religious punishment that is not fitting for secular crimes... So funny how the person (btw not familiar with the 10 commandments, in this case it's number 9 that was violated) wants another religion to do what her own religion isn't willing to do.


My...QUITE a vociferous response...I will assume that the "brainiac" reference is because you know of my high IQ and was not meant to be nasty or insulting.

While I am sure that you never make a mistake....if you go back a few pages, I actually did post an article from Time magazine reporting on the excommunication of IRA members...I even addressed it as "@Lady C"...perhaps you missed it? As far as what your priest said, that is not the same answer I got from my priest, but, I believe that everyone, even those that tout themselves as "truth fighters" "experts"...make mistakes and I don't play games of "whose expert is better?". There is a difference between formal and informal excommunication (technicaLLY..,any Catholic that does something serious enough should excommunicate themself-not take Communion, marry in the church..-until they have righted themself with the church.). The most serious ex communications (formal) require papal decree or at least a bishop. (And for the guy who said that you cannot be excommunicated for civil/non-religious reasons...talk to the cardinal who was excommunicated by the pope for PARTICIPATING in the coronation of the King of Sicily!)

I do not want to get too lengthy; however, I WOULD like to point out that, when I opened this topic and all of my postings within it I was clear about what my question was...AGAIN... Not everyone is the "brainiac" that I am (and SOME people seem more intent in proving everyone else's opinion is wrong) and therefore may have misunderstood the initial question... To be more explicit-I do NOT believe that anyone should be apologizing for actions that they had no part of. My question and follow-up statements were whether or not those Muslims who are not living under a theocratic government should come together as a group and define what they believe. Formally state their doctrines...and then, once they have the framework and leadership in place, remove those that refuse to live by the dictates of their religion...so, if you go off to join ISIS and then return (whether because you were not accepted, you were arrested...), the hierarchy of the religion could say, "you are not one of us"

Sigh....my brain is tired...being a brainiac and spending all day thinking....it is just as tiring as half-listening to a debate them screaming and insulting those who do not agree with you because DARN IT, you have NEVER been wrong and if everyone would JUST accept that...you could get some rest!!

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 4:56:30 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I am glad to see you starting a thread, most of us don't bite down here.
:)
Great topic!
I think muslims are actively stealing out against terrorism.
I have seen many speaking out lately on the news.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 5:07:54 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/muslim-girl-reportedly-attacked-called-isis-bronx-public-school

As an atheist! That is unacceptable behaviour for any human being! The interesting part about being Atheist is, is there anywhere in our "Atheist bible" that teaches us to physically attack people. Do we even have any guidelines? None at all! Atheists has no guide-lines on how to lead their lives. NO moral code. Nothing. They will do whatever they want.

Anybody who is atheist can swing any direction, depending on their core. So all I can say is, according to my own invented individual moral standards, what they did was wrong, but there is no way to police atheists because they are people who do not believe in God or Religion and all have individualistic moral codes that they will make up by themselves.

Can't compare that to being christian or muslim.

They got official guidelines to follow.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/9/2015 5:09:25 PM >

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 5:12:00 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Most of the Muslims down here are quite religious.


That would be appear to be a reassuring sign rather than a worrying one. As the MI5 report says,

" ... there is little connection between religious piety and terrorism among Muslims A "restricted" report of hundreds of case studies by the domestic counter-intelligence agency MI5 found that •

[f]ar from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.[29]•"

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1


It's really funny because whenever terrorist are caught, they are often the pious type, at least in my region, it would be someone who prays 5 times a day, and refrain from alcohol and drugs, does not smoke etc, totally perfect and educated too, University educated. All the self-radicalized ones caught are often in this demographic, infact often is inaccurate. Let's put it this way, in my region, they are tapping onto self-radicalised individuals like crazy and making loads of arrests. Our laws can apprehend them without trial and put them in jail forever. And 100% of the time. These guys are web savvy and able to make contact with terrorists groups, hold high jobs and good education.

I love muslims who takes drugs, drink alcohol, party and visit prostitutes. I never worry they will be terrorists and these are the type of muslims I usually hang out with. Because I know they don't practice their faith. When a Muslim girl is dressing skimpy and comfortable in a bikini, I know i am safe with her. If she starts covering up, especially if it was a recent thing and she's usually comfortable flashing skin, I start worrying.

I am not saying this is fool-proof, but basically a Muslim who wants to fit in and be cool, and throw out all his religious rules and regulations to hang out and party, who is easy going and cool and fun, is usually, low chance.

Someone pious, withdrawn, keeps to his own islamic circle, is someone I worry about. And if somebody who used to be cool and loves to party, starts being withdrawn and went 180 religious, that is serious alarm bells.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/9/2015 5:30:40 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 5:20:53 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

After a period of decline, white Protestant nativist groups revived the Klan in the early 20th century, burning crosses and staging rallies, parades and marches denouncing immigrants, Catholics, Jews, blacks and organized labor. The civil rights movement of the 1960s also saw a surge of Ku Klux Klan activity, including bombings of black schools and churches and violence against black and white activists in the South.



Really? Are they white catholics or black catholics? Big question. And if they are going against white activists, it must have been activists that were defending blacks.

I highly doubt their main focus was destroying other religions.

Jews are considered coloured people to them.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/9/2015 5:21:39 PM >

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 5:23:52 PM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


Really? Are they white catholics or black catholics? Big question. And if they are going against white activists, it must have been activists that were defending blacks.

I highly doubt their main focus was destroying other religions.

Jews are considered coloured people to them.


White Catholics - they are a PROTESTANT organization. They view other forms of Christianity to be lesser.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 12/9/2015 5:24:27 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 6:53:09 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		Oside - I may be misreading your statement "White Catholics - they are a Protestant org..." Catholics are the opposite of the Protestant religion. The Protestant Reformation was against the Roman Catholic Church. They then splintered into various Chrisitian groups.

The KKK actually does NOT like Catholics (apparently the KKK...is NOT fond of many people!). KKK originated in the South during the Reconstruction and most of the members were of the various Southern religions. (Funny story...my mom was from the South, lived in a small town, Bible Belt...churches on every corner EXCEPT there was only one Catholic Church and that was referred to as THAT church on the hill for THOSE people...ironically my mom went on to marry a Catholic immigrant and had to convert). Catholics were always a minority in the US (when most people belonged to one of the "big" religions ).

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:07:10 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I meant speaking out of course.

Damn typing on a Kindle.



_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:16:55 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I believe KKK success in recruiting members lies more on white supremacy, and anti-immigration issues. It didn't seem like they presented it as a Protestant's religious duty to eradicate non-white people.

I think Protestant and Catholics through the years have always had beef with each other, because of their disagreement about certain aspect of the religion. But in the case KKK, I doubt it was their main motivating factor.




(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:20:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Given that there are nearly 3 million Muslims in England alone (2.7m as of 2011 census), a few thousand on a rally is hardly big news.

From the link;

It is is organised every year by the Husaini Islamic Trust UK and according to their website is the ‘largest annually organised Islamic event in Europe’

How many britts marched in the streets to oppose the adventure in the sandbox?

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:23:56 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75

I believe KKK success in recruiting members lies more on white supremacy, and anti-immigration issues. It didn't seem like they presented it as a Protestant's religious duty to eradicate non-white people.

I think Protestant and Catholics through the years have always had beef with each other, because of their disagreement about certain aspect of the religion. But in the case KKK, I doubt it was their main motivating factor.



Since you claim to live in singapore just how do you happen to know this?

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:32:05 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
So ok. Let's take your... uhm... "questionaire" at face value. From the look of the thing there is an inherent patriarchy in the Islamic faith and women are oppressed. If true, how do you explain the existence of this person?

Why bring up megawati? How about bringing up Bhutto, Female PM of Pakistan who got assassinated for being a woman? Indonesia and Malaysia are considered on the lower spectrum of extremism of Islam. You know Muhammad's first wife was a wealthy business woman 19 years older than him, when he first married her. He was an exiled pauper, she's his boss who employed him, she's a rich chick, educated, independent and strong, running her own empire of business, imagine this in 7th century Arabia, where we imagine all women to be terrible oppressed by their culture. (An excuse some moderates use to justify why women were treated so badly). I won't be surprise if some Muslim women will use her as a role model to make their own destiny. Even in the most oppressed society, if you are born to wealth and your parents are forward thinking and believes in educating their daughters, they can rise.

And this was before Angel Gabriel told Muhammad that his like some chosen prophet to spread some stupid word called Islam.

After that, everything went down the drain, in terms of his treatment and selection of women. He did have 15 wives. Yet he practiced monogamy with his first wife until her death. I guess because she's the one with the money and power to control him.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/9/2015 7:38:39 PM >

(in reply to Staleek)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:34:08 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Still sticking with your "cool teen sites" link huh. Why am I not surprised?

Was there some mistatement in the spelling out of the law?


It's one of the main reasons I usually skip over your posts.

The reason you skip over my posts is because you *****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!*****

But it is fun to slap you around once in a while.

The only thing you have ever slapped arround *****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!*****

< Message edited by M38284 -- 12/10/2015 1:43:49 PM >

(in reply to thishereboi)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:35:46 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since you claim to live in singapore just how do you happen to know this?



How do I know California is part of USA? I need to live there to know? How do I know how a Southern Accent sounds like? I need to live in the South to know?


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/9/2015 7:36:28 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 7:57:56 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		We think KKK is bad, Nazism is bad,

It was after his win, he went all Nazi on all oppositions to ensure he stays. But I am glad he did,

"Girl with charley brown t-shirt" speak with fork tongue. Mouth hinged in middle and flaps at both ends.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 8:05:01 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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ORIGINAL: Greta75

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since you claim to live in singapore just how do you happen to know this?



How do I know California is part of USA?

That only requires a map


I need to live there to know? How do I know how a Southern Accent sounds like? I need to live in the South to know?

One necessarily must live in the south to tell if one is from georgia or alabama. They ain't even close, while they share a common boarder.
Knowing about the clan requires one to live there to understand the breadth and depth of the institution. So yes one must live there to understand them. To know that they exist one need only read a history book.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 8:15:07 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75


How did ordinary people fight back against the oppressive catholic controlled regime of medieval times and how did we reach a stage in modern society where religion no longer holds significant power in politics in the west?

If that were true then you should be able to show the number of avowed athiest who hold elected public office in the usa. Great britian,germany,france,italy...



(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 8:50:53 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Greta75

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


The law is quite clear. You wish to conflate it to mean something different. For those who choose willful ignorance let me explane it to you. A married 14 year old female can have sex with her husband . A 13 year old married female may not...but...a 14 year old female may not engage in promiscuous sex. Why is that so difficult for someone who claims to live in singapore, to grasp? The law has been posted but you wish only to read the part that agrees with your position and not the whole law.

I realise there is a loop hole that you are bringing up,

It is not a loop hole it is the phoquing law.

that 13 and above, there is no such thing as marital rape in Singapore unless there is protection order filed already, only way to tell if it's rape or not.

*****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!***** The age is 14 not 13.


But for a 14 yr old to get married requires government approval. It's a whole process, they will thoroughly interview both parents, and both parties who want to get married involve, to ascertify if they are of the right maturity to handle a marriage together. And you know what? A damn 50 yr old is sure hell never gonna get his marriage to a 14 yr old approved. And nobody is gonna get married at 14 unless it's a shotgun. And if it's a shotgun, the man is dead before he can even marry her. Probably be thrown in jail for quite a few years.

*****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!*****
Last year there were more marriages of older women (more than 15 years) to young men than the opposite.



http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications-and-papers/marriages-and-divorces/marriages-and-divorces


We have only like 23 of underage marriages last year and 10 of them were rejected. This means below 16 yr old marriages. I believe the ones approved are shot gun teenagers of the same age.

Have you a cite for that nonsense?

This is interesting: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/home-office-powerless-legal-loophole-4846514
I wonder if it's the same in the US as well. After all, legal age for marriage in Islamic nations is after puberty is reach.

Once again you are *****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!***** and the cite I posted says so.

In my country Muslims do not get married under civil law but under their own sharia courts. So their permissible marriage age is also at puberty.

Not according to the law of singapore which I have posted.

One of the ugly side of Islam isn't it. We got to respect their culture of pedophilia or we would restricting their religious freedom.

The following are not known as muslim strongholds.

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

Austria, 14 albania 14,austria 14,canada 14,chile 12,czeck republic15,denmark 15,estonia 14,france 14,italy 14,mexico 12,spain 13, South carolina usa 14,




< Message edited by M38284 -- 12/10/2015 1:45:09 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 9:43:37 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
It is not a loop hole it is the phoquing law.

It's a loop hole, when it's considered rape if it's 14 yr old, BUT if they are married, it's no longer considered rape. That's what a loop hole is!
quote:

*****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!***** The age is 14 not 13.


(5) No man shall be guilty of an offence under subsection (1)(a) for penetrating with his penis the vagina of his wife without her consent, if his wife is not under 13 years of age, except where at the time of the offence —
(a)
his wife was living apart from him —
(i)
under an interim judgment of divorce not made final or a decree nisi for divorce not made absolute;
(ii)
under an interim judgment of nullity not made final or a decree nisi for nullity not made absolute;
(iii)
under a judgment or decree of judicial separation; or
(iv)
under a written separation agreement;
(b)
his wife was living apart from him and proceedings have been commenced for divorce, nullity or judicial separation, and such proceedings have not been terminated or concluded;
(c)
there was in force a court injunction to the effect of restraining him from having sexual intercourse with his wife;
(d)
there was in force a protection order under section 65 or an expedited order under section 66 of the Women’s Charter (Cap. 353) made against him for the benefit of his wife; or
(e)
his wife was living apart from him and proceedings have been commenced for the protection order or expedited order referred to in paragraph (d), and such proceedings have not been terminated or concluded.

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=9f804d76-c39f-4e35-8cfe-1be8dd20bfe9;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22025e7646-947b-462c-b557-60aa55dc7b42%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0

quote:

Last year there were more marriages of older women (more than 15 years) to young men than the opposite.

This proves nothing. This isn't 30 yr old women marrying 15 yr old boys. This may be 40 yr old women marrying 25 yr old boys. HUGE differences! I have no issues with 40 yr old men marrying 25 yr old women. That's no longer pedophilia.

quote:

Have you a cite for that nonsense?

What? Are you serious? You went to singstat website and you can't find this data? It's transparently stated in there!

quote:

Not according to the law of singapore which I have posted.

The law you posted does not cover muslim people because muslim people do not marry in civil courts! Their religion doesn't allow them to marry in civil courts. We have sharia courts here and they are operating completely from different laws, accordance to their Quran. Even their divorce is different.


Can two Muslims get married under Civil law?

No. The Women's Charter (Chapter 353) does not allow for it.
http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/ROMM/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx#FAQ_70450

< Message edited by M38284 -- 12/10/2015 1:45:29 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Duty of "Peaceful" Muslims - 12/9/2015 11:59:43 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

Oside - I may be misreading your statement "White Catholics - they are a Protestant org..." Catholics are the opposite of the Protestant religion. The Protestant Reformation was against the Roman Catholic Church. They then splintered into various Chrisitian groups.

The KKK actually does NOT like Catholics (apparently the KKK...is NOT fond of many people!). KKK originated in the South during the Reconstruction and most of the members were of the various Southern religions. (Funny story...my mom was from the South, lived in a small town, Bible Belt...churches on every corner EXCEPT there was only one Catholic Church and that was referred to as THAT church on the hill for THOSE people...ironically my mom went on to marry a Catholic immigrant and had to convert). Catholics were always a minority in the US (when most people belonged to one of the "big" religions ).


You're mis-reading it. She asked if the the KKK was against just black catholics, the KKK as a Protestant organization is against all Catholics regardless of race.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)
Profile   Post #: 120
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