RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public?

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 5:29:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD In Alabama the law would have specifically protected you, the only problem would have been his age, unless he tried to strike you. I just reacted and I was fuming, I didn't ask for his age and let's be honest, a very tall 17 year old, he could be 18, 19 or 20, it's hard to tell. The legal situation would have been that I would have been obliged to try a more peaceful way of stopping him first, luckily the cops were very helpful and cautioned me that if I ever see anything like that again, I call them first, so it's on record, just to protect my own butt. But they weren't too enchanted with a bully abusing a disabled guy.

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 5:35:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze To be honest, I was reflecting on our case a bit, yeah still pissed off and all, but what might have happened was possibly that the nurse who started calling the social worker had seen some domestic abuse and possibly had heard every kind of excuse and yeah "Dog knocked me out" does sound a bit dodgy, so once the wheels are in motion, it's really really hard to stop them, given the fact that H is literally twice as much as me, brought me in with a swollen chin and concussed, I had a ton of old bruises from martial arts training and the weird cat scratches, possibly alarm bells went up all over the place. It wasn't one of the most positive experiences, on the other hand, there might be a woman who has "fallen down the stairs" repeatedly and the injuries don't add up, it's a good thing that they do follow up, I'm still a bit angry that they didn't even look at the evidence we both offered and just went ahead with the report, but again, they possibly really thought it was something else. Btw something similar happened to a friend of ours and she is a martial arts instructor, visited her dad in the hospital and somebody noticed her bruised legs (summer and she was wearing shorts) and she got a visit from the police who also grilled her about domestic violence, she showed them the pics and clippings from her competitions and that solved it. It made me think a bit, especially since a friend (we talked about this privately) recently got out of a relationship with a woman who had serious issues with her temper and selfcontrol, she hit him with a lamp and he needed stitches, they split up because he said the risk of him just trying to hold her off and she might trip and fall, he would automatically be assumed to be the guilty party, well apart from the fact that he didn't want to put up with an abusive gf... When I was in the Air Force they required that everyone go to a "human relations" course which covered among other things domestic violence. They said there were virtually no cases with men as the victims because if a man reported it he got A What kind of a man needs us to protect him from getting beat up by his wife. or B We don't care if you have a concusion, there is a bruise on her wrist you are the abuser. I knew a woman who was in the SCA (a midevil recreation group). Her husband was in the Army and she fought (in amor) but of course got bruises on her legs. She had to quit fighting to avoid "entanglements" with the MPs.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 5:47:18 PM)
Things are changing, thank heavens. There aren't quite as many men who are the victims of domestic violence as women, but it's still wrong. Abuse is abuse. Having seen that some partners really go to great lengths to provoke the other person to lash out, sometimes (very rarely) it might be understandable, but I think that would be a reason for me to leave a relationship, because that just seems so unhealthy and dysfunctional.

LadyPact -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 5:51:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD When I was in the Air Force they required that everyone go to a "human relations" course which covered among other things domestic violence. They said there were virtually no cases with men as the victims because if a man reported it he got A What kind of a man needs us to protect him from getting beat up by his wife. or B We don't care if you have a concusion, there is a bruise on her wrist you are the abuser. Would you mind terribly reminding me when you left the service? Depending on how long it's been, there may be some severe changes since you were active duty. For a long time, Uncle Sam looked the other way on this problem. It's my personal opinion that things started to change when several spouses from active members in a certain unit in NC started ending up getting dead. Four within a matter of weeks when the guys came home from their deployments. Two things (IMO) happened after that. One was they couldn't ignore the issue any longer. The second was they really had to start looking at folks who snapped during combat tours. Depending on your service, you probably know exactly what I mean.

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 6:19:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD When I was in the Air Force they required that everyone go to a "human relations" course which covered among other things domestic violence. They said there were virtually no cases with men as the victims because if a man reported it he got A What kind of a man needs us to protect him from getting beat up by his wife. or B We don't care if you have a concusion, there is a bruise on her wrist you are the abuser. Would you mind terribly reminding me when you left the service? Depending on how long it's been, there may be some severe changes since you were active duty. For a long time, Uncle Sam looked the other way on this problem. It's my personal opinion that things started to change when several spouses from active members in a certain unit in NC started ending up getting dead. Four within a matter of weeks when the guys came home from their deployments. Two things (IMO) happened after that. One was they couldn't ignore the issue any longer. The second was they really had to start looking at folks who snapped during combat tours. Depending on your service, you probably know exactly what I mean. I retired 1 Sep 1993, and yes there could have been changes. The class I told about was in the late 70's, so there has been time for substantial change. In these coversations I have seen on here, however there are many who's view is stuck in the 70's, the man is always wrong, not all but many.

LadyPact -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 6:30:37 PM)
Oh, yes. Many changes since then. I happen to think many of them for the greater good.

LadyPact -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 6:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Things are changing, thank heavens. There aren't quite as many men who are the victims of domestic violence as women, but it's still wrong. Abuse is abuse. Having seen that some partners really go to great lengths to provoke the other person to lash out, sometimes (very rarely) it might be understandable, but I think that would be a reason for me to leave a relationship, because that just seems so unhealthy and dysfunctional. There are a few areas where I think males under-report. Stigma has a lot to do with it.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 6:48:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I retired 1 Sep 1993, and yes there could have been changes. The class I told about was in the late 70's, so there has been time for substantial change. In these coversations I have seen on here, however there are many who's view is stuck in the 70's, the man is always wrong, not all but many. I think shame is a massive factor, many years back, I was in a relationship with a guy and it turned out he had a serious drinking problem (I found out about it months into the relationship, he was good at hiding it), let's say he got a bit "handy" and I was so terribly embarrassed about it, he also was quite manipulative, all of a sudden his drinking was my fault, it wasn't that bad violence happened all of a sudden, it was first a slap, and he claimed I drove him to it by nagging about his drinking and why did I make him do it, blah blah. Now I would kick his ass to the curb but I was quite young, I didn't even dare to tell my friend or my parents, they would have been shocked, I thought it means I failed somehow. I had made the mistake of telling him about my BDSM leanings, obviously that also "drove him to drink" as I must hate men, blah blah. The problem is shit like that, it increases, slowly, you don't really notice it and would have been a horrific experience goes to being a bad day, from there to being a normal day... The really odd thing was, I was doing martial arts then and I simply wasn't capable of fighting back because I had grown up with "You never hit anybody", the matter was resolved when I adopted a stray Dobie, he tried to hit me once with the dog around, dog pinned him down with the jaws around his neck, I dragged the dog off, dog slipped out of the collar ran back to him and peed all over him. He did move out. I think dogs have sense of humour. Hindsight is always 20/20 and nope, wouldn't tolerate it anymore, but I'm thinking if something I actually didn't do was so embarrassing for me, how much worse must it be if the genders are reversed? I couldn't report it because I was so ashamed, a guy must feel a lot worse if he's the victim of domestic violence, simply because of the way we perceive our gender roles.

ifmaz -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 7:24:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I'm not religious. I'm not even spiritual. I'm not an atheist nor an agnostic. I don't need to look up famous Islamic people that are an example. I'll go by what I've seen and witnessed personally. I know it's only a few thousand as a sample. Not many in the grand scheme of things. But I can honestly say, the experience I've seen with my own eyes is 100% as I've described. Not a single one who was any different. Not one. Not one exception. There are many in my group of acquaintances who are fantastic people - as people go. So you pick a few from 1.8 billion people who did well and are famous for getting there. How many Islamic people do you know and interact with on an almost daily basis?? And how many fit the examples you gave?? And as I said... It's not the people, it's the doctrine of their faith. You don't want other people to use their anecdotal evidence to disprove your anecdotal evidence?

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/16/2015 7:31:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I retired 1 Sep 1993, and yes there could have been changes. The class I told about was in the late 70's, so there has been time for substantial change. In these coversations I have seen on here, however there are many who's view is stuck in the 70's, the man is always wrong, not all but many. I think shame is a massive factor, many years back, I was in a relationship with a guy and it turned out he had a serious drinking problem (I found out about it months into the relationship, he was good at hiding it), let's say he got a bit "handy" and I was so terribly embarrassed about it, he also was quite manipulative, all of a sudden his drinking was my fault, it wasn't that bad violence happened all of a sudden, it was first a slap, and he claimed I drove him to it by nagging about his drinking and why did I make him do it, blah blah. Now I would kick his ass to the curb but I was quite young, I didn't even dare to tell my friend or my parents, they would have been shocked, I thought it means I failed somehow. I had made the mistake of telling him about my BDSM leanings, obviously that also "drove him to drink" as I must hate men, blah blah. The problem is shit like that, it increases, slowly, you don't really notice it and would have been a horrific experience goes to being a bad day, from there to being a normal day... The really odd thing was, I was doing martial arts then and I simply wasn't capable of fighting back because I had grown up with "You never hit anybody", the matter was resolved when I adopted a stray Dobie, he tried to hit me once with the dog around, dog pinned him down with the jaws around his neck, I dragged the dog off, dog slipped out of the collar ran back to him and peed all over him. He did move out. I think dogs have sense of humour. Hindsight is always 20/20 and nope, wouldn't tolerate it anymore, but I'm thinking if something I actually didn't do was so embarrassing for me, how much worse must it be if the genders are reversed? I couldn't report it because I was so ashamed, a guy must feel a lot worse if he's the victim of domestic violence, simply because of the way we perceive our gender roles. Today I wouldn't tolerate the stuff my first wife did either. We were married in an era when I couldn't report her and if I did anything to defend myself I was libel to go to jail. I got rid of her and have paid "special attention" to abusive people ever since. Abusive people often consider me to be the Anti Christ.

tj444 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/17/2015 1:22:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Things are changing, thank heavens. There aren't quite as many men who are the victims of domestic violence as women, but it's still wrong. Abuse is abuse. Having seen that some partners really go to great lengths to provoke the other person to lash out, sometimes (very rarely) it might be understandable, but I think that would be a reason for me to leave a relationship, because that just seems so unhealthy and dysfunctional. There are a few areas where I think males under-report. Stigma has a lot to do with it. I know someone here in Texas that reported his wife for assault.. I think she slapped him or something like that (my impression from court documents).. the cops threw her in jail, she had to post bond to get out, to get the charges dismissed she had to undergo 1 year of no drinking, no drugs, no going to anywhere alcohol is served, she had to under go and pay for drug/alcohol testing, she had to attend counselling, she wasnt allowed to quit her job or move until the charges were dismissed.. That is only part of the story on the couple, they were both whackjobs tho..

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/17/2015 1:47:01 PM)
I think it's just how it works, once the pendulum swings, it takes a while to balance out, I'm really not in favour of any violence, but I would think that a slap (no matter who gives it) is pretty shitty (I'd be embarrassed to lose it so much with a person I consider my partner) but completely different from violence with the intent to hurt, maim or intimidate. Sometimes it seems as if common sense is really the least common of all senses

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/17/2015 4:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD In Alabama the law would have specifically protected you, the only problem would have been his age, unless he tried to strike you. I just reacted and I was fuming, I didn't ask for his age and let's be honest, a very tall 17 year old, he could be 18, 19 or 20, it's hard to tell. The legal situation would have been that I would have been obliged to try a more peaceful way of stopping him first, luckily the cops were very helpful and cautioned me that if I ever see anything like that again, I call them first, so it's on record, just to protect my own butt. But they weren't too enchanted with a bully abusing a disabled guy. Here I would have seen him making a move to swing at me at and he would have been up the creek.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/17/2015 4:53:35 PM)
As I said, I didn't give him the chance, shot down like a bat out of hell and he just pushed the wheelchair (again), tapped him on the shoulder, the moment he turned round I backhanded him.

PeonForHer -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/18/2015 2:07:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze As I said, I didn't give him the chance, shot down like a bat out of hell and he just pushed the wheelchair (again), tapped him on the shoulder, the moment he turned round I backhanded him. So you smacked 'im in the mahf then? Nice one! E had it cummin, the wanker.

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/18/2015 6:25:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze As I said, I didn't give him the chance, shot down like a bat out of hell and he just pushed the wheelchair (again), tapped him on the shoulder, the moment he turned round I backhanded him. I don't blame you one bit. The fact that I would have handled it a little diferent, hurt him worse and got him put away for assaulting both the guy in the wheelchair and me is by no means a criticism of you. I just have a different background which has taught me a different way to handle these things. Personally I think it is a shame that you getting locked up was even on the table.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/19/2015 9:00:22 AM)
It's hindsight, I was just too outraged that he was such a bully to a person who's got enough to deal with by being in a wheelchair, if I would have given myself time to think about it, yes, maybe a quiet comment that would have gotten him to aim a swing for me and then dislocating his shoulder in self-defense would have been the better approach, but it was a bit of a "red mist" situation

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/19/2015 9:46:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze It's hindsight, I was just too outraged that he was such a bully to a person who's got enough to deal with by being in a wheelchair, if I would have given myself time to think about it, yes, maybe a quiet comment that would have gotten him to aim a swing for me and then dislocating his shoulder in self-defense would have been the better approach, but it was a bit of a "red mist" situation One of the first things I learned was to control your emotions when going into a confrontation. But as I said the really important thing is that you stepped in and did something. Far to many people would have simply moved to where they couldn't see it. I feel that if you see something like that or, in context of this thread, a woman being beaten, have the ability to stop it, and don't you are a coward and only slightly about the scum who is committing the assault. Now if you are unarmed and there are 5 assaliants the only thing you can do is call the cops and take notes. I don't expect people to be suicidal.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/19/2015 10:56:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I feel that if you see something like that or, in context of this thread, a woman being beaten, have the ability to stop it, and don't you are a coward and only slightly about the scum who is committing the assault. Now if you are unarmed and there are 5 assaliants the only thing you can do is call the cops and take notes. I don't expect people to be suicidal. We're absolutely in agreement there, I ended up badly hospitalized once because I saw a bunch of skinheads kicking a dog to death, just yelled at them to stop and found out that alone and on inline skates, I'm not a good match against 4 guys, about each of them twice my weight. Hearing your own bones break is an ugly sound, I was definitely glad that somebody called the cops and they arrived. Oddly enough one of the cops dragged a guy off me, he was kicking me while I was a curled up bleeding mess and threw him against the police car, the guy fractured his wrist and tried to sue the cops for undue violence, I was very happy to testify that he resisted arrest and took a swing at the officer. Their defense lawyer tried to make it look like I attacked them and they defended themselves, yeah, yelling at them to stop kicking the dog is such an attack. The attorney of state made me stand next to the guys and went "None of you seems to have injuries from what you claim was an attack, she has several fractures, cuts, needed surgery - are you really trying to make us believe that 4 men had to almost kill a small woman because they were afraid for their lives?" It taught me to never ever leave the mobile behind, NEVER, and that only the scum of the earth will attack somebody who's can't defend him or herself (animals, kids, anybody weaker). As for unarmed, I was seriously glad that we have pretty strict regulations regarding firearms in Europe, if one of the thugs would have had a gun, I don't think we would be discussing this.

NorthernGent -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/19/2015 11:36:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I think to me, this video shows me everything that is wrong with Islam. No it doesn't. It is one incident, not isolated by any stretch of the imagination, that tells you there are some right idiots who are also Muslims. You should sort out your powers of deduction because they ain't working very well if this thread is anything to go by.

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