RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public?

RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (Full Version)

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 4:59:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze You know we had a friend in Peterborough, lovely area but it seems to be very very white, we went there regularly and for the life of me, I can't imagine 6 out of 1200 pupils were white, seems more likely the other way round, we went there at least once a month and our friend's wife was American and of mixed racial background, she felt odd there, because it was so predominantly white and they did let her know that she wasn't. One of the reasons why he sold a fabulous Victorian house and took a job in the US, as his wife and kids were regularly taunted for being not lily white. Try living in the north-west section of Peterborough - it is almost exclusively Islamic. Where the main road comes in from the western ring road, the area is cut in half. North of that road is predominantly Afghan/Pakistani and Iranian. South of that road is predominantly Indian/Bangladeshi. When you get to within a half-dozen streets of the town centre near Queensgate, it suddenly becomes 99% white. If you follow the main road eastward until you meet the northern road going into town, beyond there it is suddenly 99% white. My kids went to Gladstone school just north of the main road. At the time there were about 1,197 pupils - only 6 were white and non-Muslim. They banished the traditional nativity scenes and celebrated Eid instead. There were no christian celebrations at all; only Muslim ones. So no Halloween, no Easter, no xmas - just Eid, Ramadan, Islamic New Year, birthday of Mohamed etc. During Ramadan, no school meals were served for the children. They taught the kids to count in Punjabi and Hindi before they used English. Morning assembly was preached in Punjabi and repeated in Hindi; not once in English. [ETA: this was a (supposedly) state run school, academies weren't around in those days] While we were living there, we caught a bunch of Pakistani men and boys playing cricket with a live hedgehog that used to come into our garden regularly. We ended up hand-rearing the two babies that turned up by our back door because we found the mother brutally sliced in half and dumped by our back gate. Many times our dog would go in the garden and bark at the Pakistani's trying to hit him on the head with a shovel. Go anywhere else around the town, you'll hear birds singing, dogs barking, cats sitting on fences and gate posts. In the gardens you'll spot rabbit hutches, chicken runs, fish ponds and bird aviaries. Around that area, you'll find nothing - not even the pigeons went there. It was deadly silent and virtually devoid of all animal and bird life all year round. Very eerie! When we moved from there to Orton Malborne, it was spot-the-non-white, a complete contrast. At the local school there, I think all the kids were white christian.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:10:03 PM)
As I said, whenever we visited our friend, I felt awful because of the way his wife and children were treated. As for playing cricket with an animal, I might have gotten a bit violent, though I do have to admit I am always puzzled by the English hypocritical behaviour of "Oh poor cat/dog" then said poor creatures end up in shelters because family goes on vacation, or "Oh what a cute pet, but we don't care how much the animals who supply our cheap food suffer..." Not taking a pop, seriously, but what's that all about, a country trying to style itself as animal lovers but only if it suits them? Like wearing leather is fine, if the leather has hair on and is fur, it becomes terrible and the person who's last burger you can smell on their breath pretends to be an animal activist.... The big horse and hound lovers who don't mind chasing a fox to death....

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:14:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion. So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers. For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion. So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims? No because Islamic women are taught that it is the husbands right and would be unlikely to report it. The results would be seen at hospitals, though. Medics have learned to recognise the signs of "accidents" being something else. And unless it is much different than here it still doesn't show up as domestic abuse without someone witnessing it and testifing, so if the wife won't press charges it still doesn't show up. A common occurance in domestic violence in all cultures. Not here, trust me, I was knocked out by our huge male Dobie who sadly passed away 2 weeks ago, completely my own fault as I whispered "walkies" into his ear, Alfie jumped up and I was out cold as his hard head hit my chin, hubby brought me to the ER and I was grilled regarding domestic violence, they even got a social worker in, especially when somebody noticed I was bruised and scratched (cat needing meds and kickboxing), I told them cat claws as he doesn't like to take his meds and asked them to ring up the dojo and the vet. They wanted to call the police in, hubby had to answer all sorts of nasty questions, I finally pulled out my iPhone and showed them a picture of Alfie next to me and a picture we took when I had to give the cat meds and he was all claws. Legally they do have to report any injury that just doesn't add up completely or arouses the slightest suspicion, they even went through my files and brought up every fracture from the past few years. I got a lot of questions when my son got hurt in martial arts. But that still didn't mean it showed up as a child abuse case. And with yours, it still didn't hit the books as domestic abuse. Because it wasn't domestic abuse but we spent about 6 hours arguing the case that it WASN'T, I kept telling them what happened over and over again, hubby kept telling them. Why on earth would it make the books as domestic abuse when it wasn't? Don't you think being questioned for much longer than treatment for a simple concussion takes is bad enough? Now oddly enough the Drs said I should go home and rest, how I would have loved to do that with a pounding headache and a chin that felt twice the size it should be, yet I was held and questioned. FFS, I am in the hospital once every 3 months but usually somebody from the dojo brings me, with martial arts you do dislocate joints or sprain wrists and ankles, and since we're usually in our "white jammies" it's OK, only if hubby brings me in it's a big issue... So you think a woman with a veil will be questioned less? Think again Much like my case, the explinations took far longer than the treatment. We do not seem to be discussing what I said. I said if there isn't a witness it doesn't count and that since Muslim women are taught that their husband has every right to bear them they are less likely to report it than others might be. This would hold down the recorded amount of domestic violence in that group. Getting the wifes to file is the biggest problem in dealing with domestic abuse. She would get the same number of questions but that doesn't mean she will say a word against her husband even if he beat her every day.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:30:37 PM)
If there is something that doesn't add up, it will go on file and then it is not up to her if she wants an investigation, and trust me, they ask over and over again, it was like a cross examination. A woman coming in with injuries might claim it was a fall or clumsy, she will be interrogated and whoever brought her in will be, seperately, even if cleared it is kept on file and entered into the system. I'm not being funny, I'm not an Amazon but anybody who sees me can tell I am physically active and martial artists have a similar muscle development as gymnasts, i'm not bulky but nobody examining me will mistake me for a weak little girl. I could back everything up, hubbies examination exactly matched what I said and we had to move hell and high water to have "suspected domestic abuse removed", cost us a bundle in legal fees and paying for independent evaluations (all with the big Dobie in tow and showing how he jumps when you say walkies, showing the membership of the martial arts club, reports of our vets what a bugger the cat is) just to have it removed, as hubby was doing a somewhat sensitive job at the time, I don't have to explain further.... Even if she says she fell down the stairs, if her bruises suggest slightly different, not up to her, no matter what she says

BamaD -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:35:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze If there is something that doesn't add up, it will go on file and then it is not up to her if she wants an investigation, and trust me, they ask over and over again, it was like a cross examination. A woman coming in with injuries might claim it was a fall or clumsy, she will be interrogated and whoever brought her in will be, seperately, even if cleared it is kept on file and entered into the system. I'm not being funny, I'm not an Amazon but anybody who sees me can tell I am physically active and martial artists have a similar muscle development as gymnasts, i'm not bulky but nobody examining me will mistake me for a weak little girl. I could back everything up, hubbies examination exactly matched what I said and we had to move hell and high water to have "suspected domestic abuse removed", cost us a bundle in legal fees and paying for independent evaluations (all with the big Dobie in tow and showing how he jumps when you say walkies, showing the membership of the martial arts club, reports of our vets what a bugger the cat is) just to have it removed, as hubby was doing a somewhat sensitive job at the time, I don't have to explain further.... Even if she says she fell down the stairs, if her bruises suggest slightly different, not up to her, no matter what she says Well I will not try to tell you how things work there. You live there so you should know your system better than I do. Here someone has to witness it. They will grill someone but they can't ignore her insistance that it wasn't abuse and go ahead and charge him. It almost sounds like if someone in the ER desides it was abuse they will interrigate her till they hear what they want.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:49:25 PM)
I'm of the same mind as you, generally. I make no excuses about wearing leather footwear (altho my sandals aren't leather). I make no excuses about eating meat that is bred for domestic consumption. However, I balk at fur fashion wear; I don't think we need that sort of stuff. I also abhor mistreatment of animals too. There's no need for that. There are arguments against battery-reared hens and eggs and I'm on the fence on that. I don't agree with the practice but also can't really afford the free-range offerings. The intense cattle and sheep rearing that is predominant in the US, I don't agree with at all. I also don't agree with all the crap they feed and inject the animals with either. Fortunately, it is not so common for those practices in the UK. Then of course, you'll get all the vegetarian/vegan squawks about eating meat and meat products. Here's my answer to that one that I posted more than 2 years ago on some other thread - quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 The main arguments that veggie people use is that we frequently keep our food animals in unsavoury conditions and that it's cruel to kill animals just for food. I have no arguments about the fact that some of our animal husbandry is severely lacking. But it also seems (to me at least) that the main culprits for this are more concentrated in the US than anywhere else in the world. My counter-argument is that it has been proved that the greenery and plants that we eat also suffers from poor conditions and demonstrably suffer pain. So how is it that a carrot is ok to slaughter by pulling it up, chopping it's lungs off (the leafy bit), skinning it alive (peeling) chopping it into bits or freezing it whilst still alive. If they are babies, we scrub them to insane pain levels (for a plant) then boil them alive! And we do this sort of thing for all the living plants that we harvest for our use. How fucking cruel is that???? You wouldn't do that to a living animal FFS! Just because our human ears can't hear their weak cries we ignore it and turn the other cheek as if it didn't exist. The attrocities against our plant life are many orders of magnitude worse than what we do with our animals. And what's even worse, our scientists have started tampering with nature by genetically modifying those plants in vast quantities to produce hideous monsters just for our food chain. At least if they experiment with animals, it's usually on a much smaller scale. Imagine a company wanting to genetically modify a chicken so it had two separate breasts and four legs with no wings so they could feed the average family of 4 with one bird instead of two?? It would mean that the number of chickens needing to be raised would be instantly halved; ergo, half the feed needed, half the land needed to raise them. There would be a public outcry against it!!! But we allow it for our plants??? Awww maaan, somebody really has got their ass stuffed up their ass with this one. Despite modern scientific advances, there are some meat proteins that are not replacable by different plant proteins and cannot be manufactured either. There is no other source than from meat. On top of that, we get the average ignoramous veggie-zealot that ignores the fact that many of the so-called vegetarian alternatives (like TVP) are actually a lot more harmful to us humans than eating the meat they were designed to replace. Source: foodtrainers Blogspot Extract: "...issues with too much of this processed soy are: 91% of soy grown in this country is genetically modified – meaning it is chemically manipulated and loaded with pesticides. Most processed soy is industrially produced using hexane, which may lead to damage of the nervous system if consumed in very large quantities (organic brands, such as Amy’s uses hexane free TVP). Soy contains estrogen-like compounds called phytoestrogens. Doesn’t it seem logical that mangling hormones may pose a problem? And it does, there is evidence that processed soy forms can interfere with thyroid function, cause infertility, disrupt menstrual function and increase risk of breast cancer". For a great many people who are not affluent enough to pick and choose the very best end of the protein replacement products, they are causing far more harm to themselves than eating meat. Which, as omnivores, our bodies have evolved to deal with a mixed diet of both sources. If we were vegetarians/vegans, our bodies would have retained the appendix to process that plant stuff more efficiently. That's the other side of the coin. I'll now go tuck into my nice juicy steak You can stuff your tofu and soy bean right where the sun don't shine. But we are drifting waay off topic. To get back to Greta and the OP, I would step in and help a women who was being beaten by someone, regardless of religious tenets and beliefs.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:53:04 PM)
It was seriously absurd, I mean I would have understood if it was in an area where domestic abuse is an issue, but you know what the main crime rate here is? Parking luxury cars (Bentley's, Jags, Austin Marten's and such) in disability parking spots or bus stops. The social worker who tried to convince me to admit to domestic abuse told me it never happened with her dog, I asked her what kind of dog she has, it was a tiny little Yorkshire Terrier... Yeah, dog the size of my cat or dog who's over 100 lbs, just a little difference.... I'm seriously not against investigating possible domestic abuse but if you hand them everything, ask them to ring the vet, ask them to ring the martial arts club, show them pics of the dog and then you have to spend a small fortune in legal fees to have "suspected domestic abuse" removed... It gets somewhat absurd, especially since the dojo has a record of every incident for insurance purposes, yet they refuse to look at it and just tell you "You have been treated for 2 fractures and 3 sprains within the last 4 years...." What do they think? That martial arts is a big smooch fest? When I told our vets they just cracked up and said "With your 3 Dobies and the way you trained them, H would be in the ER if he'd just push you, having limbs reattached..." My take is that they wanted to fulfil statistics, because it's a freaking boring area, could have been handled easier by seeing the GP but when we rang up we were told that we have to go to the ER.... What pisses me off is that a 5 minute phone call could have cleared it up, 6 hours and social workers and a bunch of nurses and doctors, that's my tax money...

kdsub -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:11:29 PM)
It is not human nature to beat women where i live.... I think there is enough evidence to say much of Islam is suppressing women's rights. Treating women as property is so ingrained in the Muslim world that women themselves think it is God's will. Butch

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:18:32 PM)
I step in when I see abuse, regardless of who does it. I even get in if somebody kicks their dog. As for slaughterhouses and battery hens, the UK is pretty awful when it comes to to non pets, and even pets, why else would be the shelters full. As for fur, where is the difference between leather where the hair is removed and wearing the cow or sheep with hair? I always find it absurd if people go on about kosher and halal meat, admittedly not a fan of it, but have you seen the scandals regarding the slaughterhouses here? I wonder why people think slitting the throat of an animal is so much worse than horrific abuse in slaughterhouses. One thing that does worry me terribly though is, that if you replace the word Muslim with Jews, it's not all that different to what happened about 80 years ago where people were killed for being members of a religion. Almost all the prejudices are repeated, I'm not religious, I couldn't care what people worship, I find belief that isn't backed up by facts a bit ridiculous but it's a private matter, I like to learn about religions just from an intellectual point of view because I've always been interested in the development and going through history, religions always mirrored societies (starting with the ancient Venus of Milo...) but I still find them all a bit of an escape and the feeble hope for a happy ever after, one thing they all have in common. Kind of interesting that we are all so afraid of death, maybe denial in the natural circle of life? As an atheist I'm not trying to buy my way into any kind of heaven or afterlife because it doesn't exist (in case it does, cool beans, all my friends will be in hell, brilliant party with BBQ though hard to keep the drinks cool), so I can just live my life and do what I deem right, if I offended Zeus, Thor, God, Allah, Jehova or whoever, they failed to strike me with lightning, best wait for the next thunderstorm....

ifmaz -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:39:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub It is not human nature to beat women where i live.... I think there is enough evidence to say much of Islam is suppressing women's rights. Treating women as property is so ingrained in the Muslim world that women themselves think it is God's will. Butch As opposed to Christians who would force a woman to carry her fetus to term?

kdsub -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:42:07 PM)
Oh yes...pure torture..now if they forced them to keep the child and raise it i would agree. Butch

kdsub -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:43:25 PM)
ps... I am a Christian and believe in women's rights and that includes abortion and there are many like me... I think it a poor choice but still theirs. Butch

ifmaz -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:44:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Oh yes...pure torture..now if they forced them to keep the child and raise it i would agree. Butch I'm just illustrating your chosen religion isn't quite the bastion of woman's rights you're making it out to be.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:49:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Oh yes...pure torture..now if they forced them to keep the child and raise it i would agree. Butch I'm just illustrating your chosen religion isn't quite the bastion of woman's rights you're making it out to be. Exodus 21:7-11 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. " A bastion of women's rights, ya know, selling your daughter into slavery, isn't there another one somewhere where you can sell your daughter to the dude who raped her? Guess that beats stoning her to death...

kdsub -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:50:33 PM)
Oh but it is... remember their beef is not with the woman... but in saving the unborn child... it is different my friend. Butch

LadyConstanze -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:55:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Oh but it is... remember their beef is not with the woman... but in saving the unborn child... it is different my friend. Butch But then not providing the woman or the child as they'd be "freeloaders", yeah that makes sense... How come guys always tell women what they can do with their bodies? I mean if anybody is against abortion, then they shouldn't get one, or wear a condom to avoid getting anybody pregnant, it's like gay marriage, if you are against it, don't do it, but don't stop others

kdsub -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:10:12 PM)
Talking to the Choir

ifmaz -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:14:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub ps... I am a Christian and believe in women's rights and that includes abortion and there are many like me... I think it a poor choice but still theirs. Butch Perhaps there are Muslims that disagree with certain portions of their holy text the way you disagree with certain portions of your holy text?

kdsub -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:31:14 PM)
I hope so

ifmaz -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I hope so I know so.

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