Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 5:59:18 AM)

I think to me, this video shows me everything that is wrong with Islam.

Of course beating any man or woman is wrong universally.

But when a Muslim woman gets beaten in public by her man, I think this experiment is quite true regardless which country. Because people believe it is a Muslim culture where the man is permitted to beat his wife. It's clearly stated in the Quran in black and white that this is so. So most will not interfere, they have accepted it as their culture and part of their religion and to be respectful their religious practices, few people will bother to interfere.

Whereas it is clear cut in western culture, it's not acceptable to beat a woman, people feel more confident to come in to the female's defense.

The only dude who intervene is a police officer. In another interview, he says his job obligate him to interfere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDnw4Wevxs

Here is another video of an incredibly Brave Saudi Woman fighting for her rights, just to work as a TV journalist. All I see is Islam enslaving beautiful and intelligent women like her. I just hope she is doing okay and still able to hold her job for this defiance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7OYRknGgEc



Staleek -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:14:02 AM)

That says more about the people watching than it does about anything else.

And your tendency to, once again, blame Islam when simple human nature is clearly at fault says an awful lot about you too.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:22:03 AM)

Actually, for once, Greta is right - it does clearly state in the Qoran that the male has the duty to physically chastise the female for any transgression he feels she has made.
So, true to his religious beliefs, he is doing what it expected of him within their societal norms.
He is, in effect, following his 'true' human nature as he has been taught from birth to follow.

The fact that we in the west don't subscribe to such behaviour is not in any way to finger-point that he isn't doing what we do.
And, in that respect, according to western society, is why we blame Islam.



Greta75 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:26:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek
And your tendency to, once again, blame Islam when simple human nature is clearly at fault says an awful lot about you too.

Are you saying it's a lie that a husband is permitted to beat his wife in Islam?
I love you to go down the middle east and convince them of that! That you know the Quran better than them.

It's not the western or chinese people you need to convince, but the Muslim men.





Lucylastic -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:30:33 AM)

Arent you lucky you have never seen any other kind of male beat up on a female in public.

Are all the shitty people in your life only muslims?






Greta75 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:35:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

That says more about the people watching than it does about anything else.

It says that Islam defenders like you teach us to respect Islamic religion, so we cannot interfere when they are simply practicing their teachings. Why would we? That would be disrespectful to their religion. Right? You mean you want to walk up and tell them what they are doing is wrong, despite it being permissible in their religion? It would be like criticizing them for not eating pork.
Make up your mind whether you are pro-Islam or anti-Islam.

I'm anti-Islam, so I have no problem telling a muslim man who is beating his woman that his religion is shit and tell the woman to leave Islam! I'd tell her that her Allah approve of this, so she needs to leave.

I bet you all the people who did nothing, are pro-Islam. Defenders of Islam. That's why none of them did anything.

End of the day, as political correct as some of you want to be. I wonder how many deep in your hearts would think an Islamic runned country is utopia and it's a country you'd love to live in because it's such a beautiful religion of peace.

I just find it totally ridiculous. At least I am honest about it. I don't support anything that I will fear living under the rule of.





Staleek -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:47:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Make up your mind whether you are pro-Islam or anti-Islam.



That, right there, is your problem.

You're not for or against beating up women, terrorism, oppression, hate, or anything else. You're just against Islam. I am not pro-Islam, or anti-Islam. I don't give a shit what someone believes if they keep it to themselves.

I am anti-bullshit, anti-bigotry, anti-idiocy though.

There are plenty of Islamic societies where women are not oppressed, where women are emancipated. There are even Islamic nations which have had female heads of state voted for by millions of men (the USA hasn't, does that mean the USA hates women?). There are Muslim women who are scientists, politicians, doctors, economists, and whatever else. But none of that matters or has the tiniest bearing on your bigoted viewpoint. You're unconcerned with the real world, and facts won't move you.

A youtube video, cut and edited in a certain way, is weighed more heavily in your mind than actual verifiable data and reality, which is something you can go find out for yourself.

But Greta, what about Prof. Ilham Al Qaradawi? What about Randa Ayoubi? What about Prof. Khatijah Mohd Yusoff or Sabah Khalil Almoayyed?

Greta:"Fuck that, I've got a youtube video which proves they don't exist!"

You have a very religious mindset in that you're willing to deny reality in favour of your faith.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:50:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Arent you lucky you have never seen any other kind of male beat up on a female in public.

Are all the shitty people in your life only muslims?

There are many incidents where men beat women for no real apparent or justifiable reason.
However, only in Islam is it actually encouraged and sanctioned as not only permissible, but expected.
There are many references in This Website where sections of the Qur'an are quoted as being the definitive permission for wife-beating.



Staleek -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:56:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Arent you lucky you have never seen any other kind of male beat up on a female in public.

Are all the shitty people in your life only muslims?

There are many incidents where men beat women for no real apparent or justifiable reason.
However, only in Islam is it actually encouraged and sanctioned as not only permissible, but expected.
There are many references in This Website where sections of the Qur'an are quoted as being the definitive permission for wife-beating.


That's great. I suppose this explains why Christian nations are full of rapists then?

Religious texts are allegorical to almost all religious adherents. Literalism is a rarity and is actually quite a modern phenomena.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 6:57:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I'm anti-Islam, so I have no problem telling a muslim man who is beating his woman that his religion is shit and tell the woman to leave Islam! I'd tell her that her Allah approve of this, so she needs to leave.

You might want to read this Greta.

Allah does not approve of anyone leaving Islam except on pain of death.
The Qur'an commands your death for leaving Islam (4:89 calls for the murder of renegades from the faith), and Muhammad is explicit in a hadith: "If anyone changes his religion, kill him" (Bukhari).



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:05:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Arent you lucky you have never seen any other kind of male beat up on a female in public.

Are all the shitty people in your life only muslims?

There are many incidents where men beat women for no real apparent or justifiable reason.
However, only in Islam is it actually encouraged and sanctioned as not only permissible, but expected.
There are many references in This Website where sections of the Qur'an are quoted as being the definitive permission for wife-beating.


That's great. I suppose this explains why Christian nations are full of rapists then?

Religious texts are allegorical to almost all religious adherents. Literalism is a rarity and is actually quite a modern phenomena.

Very true. There are often passages in many religious texts that affirm rape and beatings.
But the very first opening text of your link states: "Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape."

In Islam, however, those values of the Qur'an are hammered into children from birth.
And therein lies the problem.
For most christians, those nasty bits are skipped and effectively ignored.
For Islamists, it's drummed into them from the outset and all throughout their lives as being acceptable.



tweakabelle -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:09:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
There are many references in This Website where sections of the Qur'an are quoted as being the definitive permission for wife-beating.

There are many references at this website where the Christian God of the Bible orders murder, rapes, paedophilia, child sexual slavery, genocide and an entire collection of despicable crimes. That something is quoted in a religious text is not as important as how believers interpret these texts - usually in manners that suit themselves and their lifestyles, that rationalises their own behaviours.

This is not to exonerate either the Bible or the Quran of their innumerable vicious excesses. But it simply doesn't work to blame these texts for (what are usually) the culturally driven excesses of believers. The texts play a role in driving those excesses but to claim that that role is "definitive" is to greatly exaggerate their influence and importance IMHO.



Staleek -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:11:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Arent you lucky you have never seen any other kind of male beat up on a female in public.

Are all the shitty people in your life only muslims?

There are many incidents where men beat women for no real apparent or justifiable reason.
However, only in Islam is it actually encouraged and sanctioned as not only permissible, but expected.
There are many references in This Website where sections of the Qur'an are quoted as being the definitive permission for wife-beating.


That's great. I suppose this explains why Christian nations are full of rapists then?

Religious texts are allegorical to almost all religious adherents. Literalism is a rarity and is actually quite a modern phenomena.

Very true. There are often passages in many religious texts that affirm rape and beatings.
But the very first opening text of your link states: "Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape."

In Islam, however, those values of the Qur'an are hammered into children from birth.
And therein lies the problem.
For most christians, those nasty bits are skipped and effectively ignored.
For Islamists, it's drummed into them from the outset and all throughout their lives as being acceptable.



How do you account for the majority of women in Islamic nations which are not oppressive to women? How do you account for Muslim women who are political leaders, scientists etc?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:14:16 AM)

The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.

There's the major difference between the two approaches.



KenDckey -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:20:16 AM)

I lived in a Muslim town of 30,000 with a 50% Islam and 50% other population. Never saw anyone beating their wife. I was there 30 months and spent time in all areas of town. Not to say it didn't happen, just personally didn't see it. I do know that people accused of crimes, including assault went to jail until the court could sort it out. Never heard of anyone getting bail either. The court system was very slow too.



tweakabelle -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:21:18 AM)

Sorry freedomdwarf, when you start asserting that wife beating is a "a fundamental point of the religion", drummed into kids from an early age, universally across Islam, surely even you can recognise that you have gone over the top.

Most Muslims ignore those passages you highlight just as most Christians ignore the Biblical injunctions of murder rape genocide etc.



PeonForHer -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:39:04 AM)

quote:

The problem is tweak, within most christian religions, all those nasty bits are generally skipped over when kids are being taught about the religion.
So while they are indeed present, most just skim over them even if they are avid bible readers.

For those that follow Islam, these behavioural absurdities (to us) are focused upon as being a fundamental point of the religion.


So if one were to look at the statistics of e.g. wife-battering in Britain, say, one could expect to see that as rife amongst Muslims?



tj444 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:44:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Sorry freedomdwarf, when you start asserting that wife beating is a "a fundamental point of the religion", drummed into kids from an early age, universally across Islam, surely even you can recognise that you have gone over the top.

Most Muslims ignore those passages you highlight just as most Christians ignore the Biblical injunctions of murder rape genocide etc.

This is something about religious people I dont get.. people have to "ignore" certain (horrific) parts of the Bible (Quran, etc) but yet they blindly believe the rest??? does that actually make any sense to anyone? cuz it doesnt to me..



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:58:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Sorry freedomdwarf, when you start asserting that wife beating is a "a fundamental point of the religion", drummed into kids from an early age, universally across Islam, surely even you can recognise that you have gone over the top.

Most Muslims ignore those passages you highlight just as most Christians ignore the Biblical injunctions of murder rape genocide etc.

Not over the top, tweak.
These passages are indeed universally taught within Islam and with gusto.
Where I am here, it is commonplace to see the women being severely subjugated to nothing more than a slave.
You see it every day in the streets and in the supermarkets.
Every day we see women being lectured to as to what to put in their trolley or basket.
What the man wants, the man gets.
The women save no say in it and it's obvious to an onlooker that it's not being done out of courtesy or love or even consideration - they are being ordered to do it. Not asked, ordered.
We see it at the wholesaler's where the man pays the bill and the women are hauling, sometimes very heavy items, on/off the trolley and into the vans to take home. We see those at our local shops where it is the women who do the manual work of unloading the van and filling the shelves while the men stand around chatting or smoking.
We have even witnessed, more than once or twice, where a young male child under 6 years old is ordering their mother/grandmother and sisters around like little Lord Fontleroy with the beaming smile and approval of the male figure. It's not that uncommon.

And like Ken, we have not personally witnessed any public beatings, but we have spotted the obvious bruises and the way the women cower when their husband so much as looks at them.
Obviously there are some very happy Islamic women around us but I would say that more than half do not seem to exude 'happiness' when we see them with their husbands like we see with non-Islamic couples.

It is fundamentally the very reason why the women, until very recently, have not even bothered to voice any dissent against it and why most of the men (especially in Islamic countries) feel they are superior to the womenfolk.
This disparity does seem to be much more prevalent within the Islamic community (certainly here) than in other communities I have lived in and witnessed.



tweakabelle -> RE: Would people defend Hijab wearing women being beaten in public? (12/15/2015 7:58:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Sorry freedomdwarf, when you start asserting that wife beating is a "a fundamental point of the religion", drummed into kids from an early age, universally across Islam, surely even you can recognise that you have gone over the top.

Most Muslims ignore those passages you highlight just as most Christians ignore the Biblical injunctions of murder rape genocide etc.

This is something about religious people I dont get.. people have to "ignore" certain (horrific) parts of the Bible (Quran, etc) but yet they blindly believe the rest??? does that actually make any sense to anyone? cuz it doesnt to me..

It doesn't make sense to me either but this is what they must do. The mechanism employed is called cognitive dissonance - an ability to reconcile irreconcilable data. It is used in all kinds of spheres - it is far from the truth to assert that religion and the religious have a monopoly on it.



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