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Saudi and Iran - 1/4/2016 6:26:34 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		So Saudi being usual Saudi beheaded some Muslim "Martyr". Not sure if claims of inciting terrorism is true. I mean, both sides do it. Serious Pot Calling Kettle Black.

Supreme Leader of Iran calls for "bad things to happen to Saudi"

Saudi Agency in Iran gets attacked.

Saudi ends any diplomatic relations with Iran.

US government tippy toes over everything as they are supposingly to be on Saudi's side, yet they have happily end sanctions and release dough to Iran recently, I don't know, trying to be chummy and best friends with both countries now.

Would be interesting how this will play out. That so-called Arab United Force to fight ISIS, will it stay united?

One thing in common with both countries is both of them still stone women to death for getting themselves raped. So I hope they nuke each other.




< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/4/2016 6:28:27 PM >
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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/4/2016 9:16:48 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/04/middleeast/saudi-arabia-iran-severing-ties-whats-next/index.html

I think that All Arab coalition to fight ISIS is officially over.

More headaches for the world, but if they concentrate on warring among themselves, what are the implications for the rest of the world?

More chaos in the middle east. What will it do to oil prices?

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/4/2016 10:17:42 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/04/middleeast/saudi-arabia-iran-severing-ties-whats-next/index.html

I think that All Arab coalition to fight ISIS is officially over.

More headaches for the world, but if they concentrate on warring among themselves, what are the implications for the rest of the world?

More chaos in the middle east. What will it do to oil prices?


The Saudis and the Iranians are regional powers. The sauds are mightily upset that their "ally" the US has signed a treaty with Iran. One of the reasons the sauds are pumping furiously is to deprive the iranians and russians of oil revenues - and at the same time driving us shale out of business. A three-fer.

However, this is not without significant pain for the saudi's who recently decreased petrol subsidies, which caused the price to rise 40%, fomenting unrest.
The King of Saudi Arabia essentially just executed a coup last year, changing the ruling dynasty. The former dynasty is mighty unhappy, and has been fomenting unrest; there was a lot of talk about a possible counter coup about 3 months ago. On top of this, shiites in Saudia arabia are unhappy, as are border regions who have more in common with Yemen - with whom the Sauds have been involved in a proxy war with Iran.

Bottom line: The saud's moves against Iran are for domestic consumption to invoke national and religious sentiments to distract from internal unrest.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/4/2016 11:52:37 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/04/middleeast/saudi-arabia-iran-severing-ties-whats-next/index.html

I think that All Arab coalition to fight ISIS is officially over.

More headaches for the world, but if they concentrate on warring among themselves, what are the implications for the rest of the world?

More chaos in the middle east. What will it do to oil prices?


The Saudis and the Iranians are regional powers. The sauds are mightily upset that their "ally" the US has signed a treaty with Iran. One of the reasons the sauds are pumping furiously is to deprive the iranians and russians of oil revenues - and at the same time driving us shale out of business. A three-fer.

However, this is not without significant pain for the saudi's who recently decreased petrol subsidies, which caused the price to rise 40%, fomenting unrest.
The King of Saudi Arabia essentially just executed a coup last year, changing the ruling dynasty. The former dynasty is mighty unhappy, and has been fomenting unrest; there was a lot of talk about a possible counter coup about 3 months ago. On top of this, shiites in Saudia arabia are unhappy, as are border regions who have more in common with Yemen - with whom the Sauds have been involved in a proxy war with Iran.

Bottom line: The saud's moves against Iran are for domestic consumption to invoke national and religious sentiments to distract from internal unrest.

Perhaps you are understating the extent of Saudi aggression.

The Saudis are heavily involved in the horrors of Syria, where they have financed and armed much of the anti-Assad opposition, including the vile barbarians of IS. Their army is in virtual occupation of Bahrain, suppressing the Shia minority there brutally. They are directly engaged in Yemen where their air force and army is accused of multiple repeated atrocities. Scarcely a week goes by without the Saudis opening up a new area of confrontation with Iran. Many observers have accused the Saudis of responsibility for the wave of sectarian hostilities sweeping through the region.

It is difficult to accept that this aggression in all sectors in the region is merely for domestic consumption. While there is some truth in the accusation, it makes more sense to attribute this level of aggression to an intention to establish a regional hegemony, using sectarian war to minimise Iran's influence. Any domestic benefit for the Saudi autocrats and tyrants is serendipitous. The Saudis are aggressively seeking to fill the vacuum left by diminishing US presence and influence (and strategic interest) in the region.

The picture of the medieval barbaric theocrats of the house of Saud being the dominant force in the region is horrifying.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 12:01:30 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/04/middleeast/saudi-arabia-iran-severing-ties-whats-next/index.html

I think that All Arab coalition to fight ISIS is officially over.

More headaches for the world, but if they concentrate on warring among themselves, what are the implications for the rest of the world?

More chaos in the middle east. What will it do to oil prices?


The Saudis and the Iranians are regional powers. The sauds are mightily upset that their "ally" the US has signed a treaty with Iran. One of the reasons the sauds are pumping furiously is to deprive the iranians and russians of oil revenues - and at the same time driving us shale out of business. A three-fer.

However, this is not without significant pain for the saudi's who recently decreased petrol subsidies, which caused the price to rise 40%, fomenting unrest.
The King of Saudi Arabia essentially just executed a coup last year, changing the ruling dynasty. The former dynasty is mighty unhappy, and has been fomenting unrest; there was a lot of talk about a possible counter coup about 3 months ago. On top of this, shiites in Saudia arabia are unhappy, as are border regions who have more in common with Yemen - with whom the Sauds have been involved in a proxy war with Iran.

Bottom line: The saud's moves against Iran are for domestic consumption to invoke national and religious sentiments to distract from internal unrest.

Perhaps you are understating the extent of Saudi aggression.

The Saudis are heavily involved in the horrors of Syria, where they have financed and armed much of the anti-Assad opposition, including the vile barbarians of IS. Their army is in virtual occupation of Bahrain, suppressing the Shia minority there brutally. They are directly engaged in Yemen where their air force and army is accused of multiple repeated atrocities. Scarcely a week goes by without the Saudis opening up a new area of confrontation with Iran. Many observers have accused the Saudis of responsibility for the wave of sectarian hostilities sweeping through the region.

It is difficult to accept that this aggression in all sectors in the region is merely for domestic consumption. While there is some truth in the accusation, it makes more sense to attribute this level of aggression to an intention to establish a regional hegemony, using sectarian war to minimise Iran's influence. Any domestic benefit for the Saudi autocrats and tyrants is serendipitous. The Saudis are aggressively seeking to fill the vacuum left by diminishing US presence and influence (and strategic interest) in the region.

The picture of the medieval barbaric theocrats of the house of Saud being the dominant force in the region is horrifying.


I didn't say that all those actions were for domestic consumption; If I wasn't clear, I was referring to the recent diplomatic contretemps. The withdrawal of the embassy and the cutting of direct flights.

I agree with your facts, but not your conclusion or opinion. Certainly the Saudi's are engaged in syria - just like the iranians have troops there, and dispatched the Iranian funded Hezbollah. Certainly the Saudis are in Yemen - after the Iranian finance Hauthi's overthrew the government at Sanaa.

The barbaric Sauds are no less barbaric than the Iranians.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 1:23:44 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
However, this is not without significant pain for the saudi's who recently decreased petrol subsidies, which caused the price to rise 40%, fomenting unrest.
The King of Saudi Arabia essentially just executed a coup last year, changing the ruling dynasty. The former dynasty is mighty unhappy, and has been fomenting unrest; there was a lot of talk about a possible counter coup about 3 months ago. On top of this, shiites in Saudia arabia are unhappy, as are border regions who have more in common with Yemen - with whom the Sauds have been involved in a proxy war with Iran.

Looks like this is gonna keep happening with stupid countries who uses oil money to give too many free shit and basically support their entire population.

Once it's no long sustainable, and their subsidies for whatever welfare scheme start decreasing, their local people spoilt with being fed with free shit constantly starts being discontent.

I feel like many of these dictators used "socialism" to control their population, by directly supporting majority of them, so they don't have to work or work hard, so it looks like, this government is great, because they feed us.

There is a pattern there. One thing for sure, middle east will fall, eventually, it's a matter of how long their resources last.

Love to see a coup in Saudi, although the opposition is not much better than the current rulers.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/5/2016 1:25:54 AM >

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 1:37:27 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		He wasn't just some Muslim Martyr though; he was a highly respected Muslim cleric, so SA action doesn't bode well in the grand scheme of things.
It appears SA have lost the plot, no surprise considering The House of Saud is being run by the playboy son of a king with dementia. The question is, will Saudi Arabia be the creator of its own destruction by suffering the loss of allies in this foolish process? No matter how well this war has been planned, this is one mess the west won't be able to sort out and Saudi Arabia just became one huge liability.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 1:50:39 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
However, this is not without significant pain for the saudi's who recently decreased petrol subsidies, which caused the price to rise 40%, fomenting unrest.
The King of Saudi Arabia essentially just executed a coup last year, changing the ruling dynasty. The former dynasty is mighty unhappy, and has been fomenting unrest; there was a lot of talk about a possible counter coup about 3 months ago. On top of this, shiites in Saudia arabia are unhappy, as are border regions who have more in common with Yemen - with whom the Sauds have been involved in a proxy war with Iran.

Looks like this is gonna keep happening with stupid countries who uses oil money to give too many free shit and basically support their entire population.

Once it's no long sustainable, and their subsidies for whatever welfare scheme start decreasing, their local people spoilt with being fed with free shit constantly starts being discontent.

I feel like many of these dictators used "socialism" to control their population, by directly supporting majority of them, so they don't have to work or work hard, so it looks like, this government is great, because they feed us.

There is a pattern there. One thing for sure, middle east will fall, eventually, it's a matter of how long their resources last.

Love to see a coup in Saudi, although the opposition is not much better than the current rulers.


They don't support their entire population. You only get support in SA if you are a citizen of SA and a very high majority of people living in SA are not citizens. The majority live on piss poor wages in substandard housing.

What opposition are you talking about? Exiled opposition ? There is no formal opposition party in SA

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 2:13:26 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

He wasn't just some Muslim Martyr though; he was a highly respected Muslim cleric, so SA action doesn't bode well in the grand scheme of things.
It appears SA have lost the plot, no surprise considering The House of Saud is being run by the playboy son of a king with dementia. The question is, will Saudi Arabia be the creator of its own destruction by suffering the loss of allies in this foolish process? No matter how well this war has been planned, this is one mess the west won't be able to sort out and Saudi Arabia just became one huge liability.

Yes this seems to me to be one of the central questions. Has the Saudis' ambition of regional hegemony forced them to bite off more than they can chew?

For a country with a population of less than 10 million, with armed forces largely manned (sic) staffed by foreign Sunnis, they do seem to have some grandiose ambitions. They have the financial resources to underwrite their aggression. But whether they have the political and military resources to succeed is another matter entirely. They may feel emboldened by the 'success' of their interventions in Bahrain, Syria and Yemen. But with the exception of Bahrain, they don't appear close to anything that resembles a victory in Syria or Yemen. And bullying countries such as Iran and Iraq is of a completely different order to anything they have attempted thus far.

Their policy is stoking the sectarian hatreds that permeate the region. But, as we have seen in Iraq, once unleashed, these sectarian forces seem to take on a momentum of their own and the outcome is a nightmare to predict with any certainty. And the US security guarantee that has sustained the rule of the House of Saud to date is not likely to underwrite their expansionism. For a variety of reasons, US policy now seems to be tilting towards the view that favours a balance of power between the 3 main forces in the region - Israel, Saudi and Iran.

So the Saudis appear to be engaged in a massive gamble with an outcome almost impossible to predict with any degree of certainty.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 2:17:50 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
They don't support their entire population. You only get support in SA if you are a citizen of SA and a very high majority of people living in SA are not citizens. The majority live on piss poor wages in substandard housing.

When I say THEIR entire population. I mean their citizens! I think maybe I don't come from a socialist country so a country even supporting non-citizens or providing any welfare to them is an outlandish crazy idea to me, and I know my country would never do that, or they will get voted out, who-ever is on top crazy enough to try.
But I get the misunderstanding. We live in different worlds. UK does provide support to non-citizens, so that's normal to you. Not normal to me.

quote:

What opposition are you talking about? Exiled opposition ? There is no formal opposition party in SA
In dictatorial regions in the middle east, oppositions are always just a band of underground unhappy ordinary people plotting for change. They just need to get organized together and rally support.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/5/2016 2:21:20 AM >

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 3:15:53 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

When I say THEIR entire population. I mean their citizens! I think maybe I don't come from a socialist country so a country even supporting non-citizens or providing any welfare to them is an outlandish crazy idea to me, and I know my country would never do that, or they will get voted out, who-ever is on top crazy enough to try.
But I get the misunderstanding. We live in different worlds. UK does provide support to non-citizens, so that's normal to you. Not normal to me.

quote:

What opposition are you talking about? Exiled opposition ? There is no formal opposition party in SA
In dictatorial regions in the middle east, oppositions are always just a band of underground unhappy ordinary people plotting for change. They just need to get organized together and rally support.



Greta, in your other post you suggested that Saudi keeps its citizens under a protective financial umbrella. You forgot to mention that over 9 million people (which is a very big percentage of the SA population) are not citizens and therefore, get little to nothing.

Didn't you say, "Once it's no long sustainable, and their subsidies for whatever welfare scheme start decreasing, their local people spoilt with being fed with free shit constantly starts being discontent."?

If you still hold by that, then I'll tell you, you're wrong. If anyone rises up internally in Saudi Arabia and supports a future invasion, it will be the poor workers, the repressed population who haven't been given birth rights. It will be the Shiite and Christian slaves who haven't been granted an educations or even the most basic means to live on.







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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 9:05:04 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		I agree tweak...there is not ONE Muslim nation with integrity and worth a partnership with America.

Butch

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 12:05:39 PM   
JennyDevine


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Status: offline 		oops

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/5/2016 5:09:27 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Greta, in your other post you suggested that Saudi keeps its citizens under a protective financial umbrella. You forgot to mention that over 9 million people (which is a very big percentage of the SA population) are not citizens and therefore, get little to nothing.

Exactly Saudi works on a system where they hire foreigners to work for them and support their wages on oil money, and have the Saudis in charge or paid by foreign companies to do absolutely nothing, but just to meet quota to employ Saudis.

quote:

Didn't you say, "Once it's no long sustainable, and their subsidies for whatever welfare scheme start decreasing, their local people spoilt with being fed with free shit constantly starts being discontent."?

Absolutely no longer sustainable for saudi people when oil runs dry. And I'm not talking about their foreigners, foreigners pack up, leave and work elsewhere, they are not in the equation. Currently, anybody who has work in Saudi would tell you, Saudi people are just paid because government protects them and make sure company are forced to employ them and are not allowed to fire them. So basically, they just get paid to do nothing. When oil runs out, they will die, as they never worked a day in their life or experience what it means to be financially independent from the government help.

And when there is no more wealth, there is no more wealth. Companies will leave. Their unemployment will go to hell, since there is no more wealth to tap on for companies to want to set up there. Saudi spending power would reduce so bad. And petrol prices will skyrocket for them, I don't even think they got public transport, they are pretty screwed when it happens.

They don't even open up their tourism to support their economy, guess they have no need to for now. You can't be in Saudi, unless for work. They got nothing going on for them.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/5/2016 5:17:54 PM >

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/6/2016 3:56:44 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
In dictatorial regions in the middle east, oppositions are always just a band of underground unhappy ordinary people plotting for change. They just need to get organized together and rally support.



Lmao @ "Get organised" Why the hell do you think the Saudis murdered the Cleric ? And lets not forget they also murdered several other peaceful protesters, while many more languish on death row.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/6/2016 3:58:22 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I agree tweak...there is not ONE Muslim nation with integrity and worth a partnership with America.

Butch


So you have written to your Congressman about the US doing business with the Saudis ? or maybe you have stopped using Saudi Oil as a protest.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/6/2016 4:04:08 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

He wasn't just some Muslim Martyr though; he was a highly respected Muslim cleric, so SA action doesn't bode well in the grand scheme of things.
It appears SA have lost the plot, no surprise considering The House of Saud is being run by the playboy son of a king with dementia. The question is, will Saudi Arabia be the creator of its own destruction by suffering the loss of allies in this foolish process? No matter how well this war has been planned, this is one mess the west won't be able to sort out and Saudi Arabia just became one huge liability.


Wow. What an outrageous opinion.

Outside left v wing circles, it is widely thought that the Iranians overreacted. Hence worldwide opinion and action, cutting diplomatic relations with iran, sanctions on iran, not Saudi arabia.

More mainstream opinion is that the Saudis knew the Iranians would overreact... and they did.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/6/2016 4:07:39 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I agree tweak...there is not ONE Muslim nation with integrity and worth a partnership with America.

Butch





So you have written to your Congressman about the US doing business with the Saudis ? or maybe you have stopped using Saudi Oil as a protest.



why on earth would we want to do that? Sunni Muslims are fighting Shiite muslims.

Encourage it.

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/6/2016 4:11:10 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

why on earth would we want to do that? Sunni Muslims are fighting Shiite muslims.

Encourage it.


And there is your problem, you dopey fuck. You cant even work out which side promotes AQ and IS.

Do I need to explain IS and AQ for you ?



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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/6/2016 4:29:15 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

why on earth would we want to do that? Sunni Muslims are fighting Shiite muslims.

Encourage it.


And there is your problem, you dopey fuck. You cant even work out which side promotes AQ and IS.

Do I need to explain IS and AQ for you ?





Oh please do. It will be good for a great laugh.

So you think we shouldn't encourage the Saudis and the Iranians rto fight because Saudi terrorism is worse than Iranian terrorism?

Really?

Let's suppose I even agreed with such a dubious premise. Somehow, you don't think they would redirect their efforts towards each other? At least in part?

Really?

So let's suppose even that ridiculous premise is true. We still have (according to you) two enemies killing each other.

Yep still think that's a great idea.

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