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Phydeaux -> RE: Freedom From Atheism! (1/29/2016 8:01:44 PM)
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quote:
who would then argue the US as a Christian nation, completely forgetting (or willfully ignoring) the Treaty of Tripoli.
Secularists make much cloth undeserving out of the treaty of tripoly.
First, consider the time frame. Fledgling nation - and denied the protection of england, the barbary pirates were causing severe depradation in the fledgling nations mercantile fleet.
By the time Jefferson became president, the tribute demanded was 20% of GDP. The point is that the founding fathers were desperate to cut a deal.
quote:
According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers." Lambert writes,
"By their actions, the Founding Fathers made clear that their primary concern was religious freedom, not the advancement of a state religion. Individuals, not the government, would define religious faith and practice in the United States. Thus the Founders ensured that in no official sense would America be a Christian Republic. Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.[14]
Second, the treaty negotiated and signed in Tripoli had no Article 11, the section by which you are claiming the US is not a christian nation.
None. It did not exist; in its place was a letter to the pasha, and that phrase or sentiment is not in the letter either.
Third.
The treaty was supplanted by the treaty of 1805, and is thus not part of US canon.
Fourth.
The 1783Treaty concluded between the US and Britain, establishing the US, started with the words..
quote:
In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.
It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts . . .
Fifth.
Sam adams was prsident when the treaty was signed.
quote:
Adams expressed his religious views on numerous occasions, but his call for a National Fast Day on March 6, 1799 is the most expressive:
As no truth is more clearly taught in the Volume of Inspiration, not any more fully demonstrated by the experience of all ages, than that a deep sense and a due acknowledgment of the growing providence of a Supreme Being and of the accountableness of men to Him as the searcher of hearts and righteous distributor of rewards and punishments are conducive equally to the happiness of individuals and to the well-being of communities.... I have thought proper to recommend, and I hereby recommend accordingly, that Thursday, the twenty-fifth of April next, be observed throughout the United States of America as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting, and prayer; that the citizens on that day abstain, as far as may be, from their secular occupation, and devote the time to the sacred duties of religion, in public and in private; that they call to mind our numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore His pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgressions, and that through His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience to His righteous requisitions in time to come; that He would interpose to arrest the progress of that impiety and licentiousness in principle and practice so offensive to Himself and so ruinous to mankind; that He would make us deeply sensible that "righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people" [Proverbs 14:34]."
Note the contrast Adams draws between things "secular" and "sacred." Clearly Adams did not labor under the illusion that he had to have a "secular purpose" for declaring a national day of prayer ("Lemon test"), nor did he believe that government could never "advance religion," but rather, had a duty to do so. Thus Tocqueville wrote,
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other...In the United States, if a political character attacks a sect [denomination], this may not prevent even the partisans of that very sect, from supporting him; but if he attacks all the sects together [Christianity], every one abandons him and he remains alone.
(The Republic of the United States of America and Its Political Institutions, Reviewed and Examined, Henry Reeves, trans., Garden City, NY: AS Barnes & Co., 1851, Vol. I, p. 334-335)
Sixth.
That same treaty, makes clear in numerous locations that the US is a Christian nation.
For examplequote:
Glory be to God! Declaration of the third article. We have agreed that if American Christians are traveling with a nation that is at war with the well-preserved Tripoli, and he [evidently the Tripolitan] takes [prisoners] from the Christian enemies and from the American Christians with whom we are at peace, then sets them free; neither he nor his goods shall be taken.
Seventh:
If treaties are going to be used to establish the religious commitment of the nation, then it's essential that we look at all of the treaties. In 1822, the United States, along with Great Britain and Ireland, ratified a "Convention for Indemnity Under Award of Emperor of Russia as to the True Construction of the First Article of the Treaty of December 24, 1814." (16) It begins -- as many treaties did -- with these words:
"In the name of the Most Holy and Indivisible Trinity."
Only Christianity teaches a Trinitarian view of God. If the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli does in fact make Christianity null and void in America (which it does not), the Treaty of 1822 reestablishes Trinitarian Christianity as the official religion of the United States.
http://vftonline.org/EndTheWall/tripoli.htm
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